AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #15

[SurfieTX]

Terri Horman wasn't allowed supervised visits, I believe. I'll have to go check, but that she didn't fight for visitation is one reason people think that she's guilty.

You're right. I was mistaken. Kaine had taken out the restraining order on behalf of himself and Kyron's little sister.

 

[Hatfield]

My kids have this i bought it at walmart!


http://www.bing.com/search?q=5+star...14&qs=AS&sk=&pq=5+star+emergency&sp=1&sc=3-16


they carry it with them has gps ans can immediately get 911 at the push of a button.
I tell them to tell NO ONE they have it!



Be prepared for anything with this emergency response system and child locator device by GreatCall. Reliable nationwide coverage


I also have one for myself!

WOW. Thank You!!! I had no idea these types of devices are already becoming available. This is great news, and I think we will see these types of things become more + more popular, and proably have different designs, become smaller+smaller, etc. to allow them to be carried more easier, like attached to our shoes, belts, etc. to be hidden more eaisly, etc. This type of device is critical because it provides last known location, so even if a perp ends up finding the device and tosses it away, the last known location would still be provided, so that may be just enough information to help find someone. In the future, they may become like a button even and be sewn onto a shirt or shoe or something.

This is great news, and I totally agree it is worth the investment. Lives are too precious not to take all steps to protect them.
THANKS AGAIN!!!

 

[SurfieTX]

OK...maybe this may make everyone take a deep breath and think for a bit....

I read the article and could find no facts to support that headline.

 

[LisaB]

Did dad watch the game alone or with his son (s)? Were the boys asleep in their beds or did they go out with friends after their baseball game?

It was a Friday night.

From the 911 call, Sergio states they all came home and had their showers.

From the brother's 911 call, we get the information that she should have been in pajamas, probably pink or green. This suggests she normally slept in pajamas and had more than one set. If the family came home at 10:30 and she took her shower and let mom braid her hair before she went to bed, why did she put on shorts and a T-shirt instead of her pajamas after her shower?

Stupid as it sounds, is it possible nobody took showers, but Sergio didn't want anyone thinking the kids were dirty and neglected so he embellished a bit? Isabel DID have on blue shorts (and I believe a pink tank top) at the game on the 20th. It sounds as if she may have changed her top (if it got something dribbled on it) but not her shorts before going to bed.

 

[Shelby2]

Where did you hear that, dude?

Dude, it's in this post:
"I think someone brought it to the attention of LE last week that someone is making death threats against Sergio"

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AZ AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #15

 

[cluciano63]

I felt like that on Monday, LE spent time detailing the other things LE is and has been doing that do not involve focusing on the family, i.e checking out the 500+ RSO's, sending Isabel's info to Mexican authorities, doing the 3-mile searches in order to rule out her leaving on her, all to show that they did not simply hone in on the family, but that something or other keeps leading them back there, or not allowing them to move on from them. All in order, IMO, to put to rest any accusations that nothing was done other than examining the family, in the event that one or more of them is eventually charged. JMO

 

[AnaTeresa]

You're right. I was mistaken. Kaine had taken out the restraining order on behalf of himself and Kyron's little sister.

Just to compare the two cases - many seemed to take the idea that since Terri Horman did not fight the restraining order, it indicated that she was guilty.

Here, we have a statement that SC agreed to a voluntary no contact agreement with CPS. On that fact alone, how does that strike you all? Sign of guilt or something else?

 

[Eileen730]

Mom's room is pretty far to go in the dark if yoiu are scared. The brothers are in the next room.

I understand all that !
Im just questioning the comment that she always went to sleep with brothers!

Hey its possible but i have a 15 yr old that loves his privacy lol.

 

[Madeleine74]

And sometimes at the end of a case, all those clamouring that the parents did it are entirely off base (Jaycee Dugard, Shasta Groene, Riley Fox, etc. etc.). On some threads, it sometimes feels as I've I've stumbled into a hang-em-high mentality, the way the parents are targeted.

Respectfully, it's one thing to discuss a person's theory and provide evidence why you discount it. I think it's another to criticize people for theorizing. Often, many threads are simply full of posts about how the parents did it. I like that Isabel's thread has varied theories and lots of avenues of discussion, rather than becoming repetitive.

Please point to where in my post I am criticizing people for theorizing. I recognize it happens in every case. And not just here on WS but everywhere, in every form of media. It's what people do.

I'm making a point that many missed. It's in the follow-up of a case and looking at how the case was resolved that allows one to gain better understanding of what actually did happen and ascertain patterns.

It's why when I "hear hooves I think horses and not zebras."

 

[Donjeta]

Terri Horman wasn't allowed supervised visits, I believe. I'll have to go check, but that she didn't fight for visitation is one reason people think that she's guilty.

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=128881904149727200

Initially she asked for supervised visits but later on she withdrew the motion, apparently because she didn't want to be deposed or share her medical records for fear of incriminating herself.

 

[cluciano63]

OK...maybe this may make everyone take a deep breath and think for a bit....

Not really, IMO...Le said isabel was abducted in response to a question from the media, as opposed to walking off on her own, and added that the parents are still not ruled out. Media made this into a different kind of thing, IMO...

 

[LisaB]

If she thought the "evidence" or whatever LE informed CPS about was trumped up, fabricated, untrue, or misconstrued. Or even if she knew it was true, but that LE and CPS were using it to apply heat to the family - and she truly believes that SC had nothing to do with it, whatever his flaws may be.

If I were in her position, I may be outraged as well. We don't know why the no contact order was put into place, but depending on why and how it was done, it could easily make her angry at the attempts to split up the family.

Not to mention that she has to "keep it together" all the time. She had mentioned not letting her kids see her break down. Now if she needs to cry, she can't have Sergio take the kids for a walk or an ice cream cone to give her a few minutes to fall apart. If she doesn't think he is being kept from contacting the kids for a good reason, she could feel this is just another burden for her to bear.

BTW, I did notice in the transcribed presser that Sergio is NOT prohibited from contacting Becky.

 

[SweetT]

Just to compare the two cases - many seemed to take the idea that since Terri Horman did not fight the restraining order, it indicated that she was guilty.

Here, we have a statement that SC agreed to a voluntary no contact agreement with CPS. On that fact alone, how does that strike you all? Sign of guilt or something else?

To me that all depends on if the death threats are real or not, or what the reason for the decision is. If he is truly worried about the safety and welfare of his other children, or if it is due to some other reason. :moo:

 

[txanmom]

I understand all that !
Im just questioning the comment that she always went to sleep with brothers!

Hey its possible but i have a 15 yr old that loves his privacy lol.

I agree with you here. I have a 14 yo - he doesn't even like his sister to go in his room EVER! It is one of their big fights. However, when they were littler they used to love to sleep in each other's rooms (under tents we would make out of sheets...) makes me miss them being little.

 

[~n/t~]

I understand some people's concern with the 911 call but I have followed hundreds of cases and I have yet to see the public NOT rip every 911 call to shreds, has there ever been a perfect 911 call where everyone is in agreement that the person did what "they were supposed to do and acted like they were supposed to act?" (Whatever the hell that means)

I have a simple rule of thumb when looking at any unknown and that is if the majority of people believe A to be true it is very likely A is false and B, C or D being the more unpopular choices, are more than likely true.

This is of course evidenced all through history with angry mobs doing things like killing the very few people who had the balls to suggest the world wasnt flat.

I would consider the mom's 911 panic a lot more realistic if a son/daughter vanishes from their bed.

I don't know that makes her any less scrutinized by LE or the public but it's more of what I would consider "normal" reaction and I think that can be confirmed by many who have experienced a child going missing even if it's for a split second. The reaction is PANIC. Whether it's at home, mall, or parking lot.

I sensed no panic in SC. He didn't even tell TPD to send someone immediately. He remained calm and started talking about what the family did that day, the ballgame he watched on tv and where he was at midnight. Right next to Isa's bedroom.

 

[Anita Richman]

For those of you who seem to think that RC is in some way " OUTRAGED " of the separation thing maybe you should closely relisten to the mothers day interveiw. She seems releaved not to have SC around, when mentioning her boys She say's they want to get back to normal and be with Isabel... She does not in any way shape or form say the boys have a desire to be around thier father.

Respectfully, we don't know what she said. The interview could have (and most likely was) edited. It's up to the discretion of the person editing the interview to include or not include statements.

 

[Hatfield]

I understand some people's concern with the 911 call but I have followed hundreds of cases and I have yet to see the public NOT rip every 911 call to shreds, has there ever been a perfect 911 call where everyone is in agreement that the person did what "they were supposed to do and acted like they were supposed to act?" (Whatever the hell that means)

I have a simple rule of thumb when looking at any unknown and that is if the majority of people believe A to be true it is very likely A is false and B, C or D being the more unpopular choices, are more than likely true.

This is of course evidenced all through history with angry mobs doing things like killing the very few people who had the balls to suggest the world wasnt flat.

Points well taken, but when he was on the 911 call and mentioned that his wife just got home and was "kinda freaking out", would you not agree that she was acting what would be considered "normal" in that situation, and therefore, why was he not acting similar to her? And why would he even point that out to the operator?
IMO, he pointed that out to the operator because he was acting the complete opposite of "freaking out", which to me, would not be typical in that situation. JMO of course.

But your points are well taken, as we have to try to give every benefit of the doubt until facts become known as to what has happened.

 

[Donjeta]

Thank you. Is this from NG?

Does Mr. Vegas say HE has had no contact with the children and Becky or is he talking about Sergio since the agreement was made?

If he is commenting on Becky and the boys being outraged then he had to have spoken with them, imo.

I am at a loss why some seem to think Vegas wouldnt know Becky and the boys extremely well too.

IMO

I missed that he came on a second time near the end of the show and you're right, he says that he spoke with Becky and the boys.

But you know, from what he says I get the impression that after all these discussions Joe Vega thinks that the police want to keep Sergio away from his sons because they think he's done something to Isabel and not because he's getting death threats.

GRACE: To Joe Vega, this is the very dear friend of the Celis family, including Sergio Celis, the father.

Joe, in addition to answering that question, I`d really like to find out how the two little boys are doing.

VEGA: It`s hard on them. I spoke with both boys and Becky last night. They both can`t believe what -- all three of them, they can`t believe what`s happening. The situation has just been made worse now that they can`t see their father.

Becky and the boys do not believe Sergio was involved in any way. They`re outraged about what`s happened. They`re -- it`s hard for the boys. They`re trying to get back into baseball -- trying to get back to playing baseball now, trying to put some of this behind them, get some normality back in their lives, but, you know, right when they try to do that, something like this happens.

You know, they`re been very upset, you know, and it`s upsetting to hear how everybody was making their judgments about Sergio and nobody knows him. You know, I spoke with him, you know, a day are or so after this happened, you know, and everybody on your panel didn`t hear him crying on the phone to me.

When I spoke with him Saturday, they didn`t hear him break down on the phone when he was talking to me. You know, we have all these experts saying this, but there are six billion people on the planet. Are they all supposed to act the same?

GRACE: You know what, I agree, Joe. I do. But I think that what Marc Klaas was saying earlier is a good point, and that is, it`s not just him laughing on the 911 call. It`s not just him stating that he won`t reveal whether he passed a polygraph or not. It`s not that. It`s that he`s the last one that saw the little girl. He`s the last one that was with her.

He`s the one who discovered her missing. He is the one that`s been banned from being with his other children. All of that put together is creating a cloud of suspicion, Joe. I know that you are hearing me. I know you are, but on the other hand you`re also --

VEGA: I do. I understand it. You know, but I don`t believe -- I don`t believe it. And, you know, the CPS system here in Tucson doesn`t have a very good name for itself over the last few years, you know, and now they`re doing this and to be unprecedented and not even let him have supervised visitation rights. You know my personal opinion is --

GRACE: Can I ask you what you mean by they, the police, are doing this? What are police doing?

VEGA: I don`t know what police are doing.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Well, you just said now they are doing this. What is it you`re talking about?

VEGA: Keeping Sergio away from his boys. I believe it --

GRACE: Well, why don`t you ask him and find out? You talked to him. Why didn`t you say why won`t they let you be with your boys? I would have asked that out of natural curiosity.

VEGA: I did ask him that on Saturday --

GRACE: And what did he say?

VEGA: And he would not tell me. He said he could not tell me.

GRACE: Why couldn`t he tell you? I understand that he doesn`t want to tell the police because he thinks -- I mean the press because it might impede the investigation, but you`re his -- one of his best friends. Why can`t he tell you?

VEGA: I don`t know. I got the impression that he was advised not to tell me or tell anybody.

GRACE: Does he have a lawyer?

VEGA: I don`t know that. I don`t know.

GRACE: Well, if he doesn`t have a lawyer, I don`t know who would be doing this advising.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1205/15/ng.01.html

 

[cluciano63]

If Sergio is getting death threats, should it be known or published that he is staying right down the street with his parents?

 

[pistolina]

I don't know if he harmed her or not but in the 911 call, I can clearly notice SC distancing himself from his daughter.

Talking to TPD, he says , I need to report a missing child. I believe she was abducted from my house. TPD had to ask him if he was referring to his daughter and then he says yes.

He mispells her name. It appears he gave the wrong birth date. When asked for Isabel's height, he gives TPD his wife's height, etc etc etc.

He then goes on to talking about himself and what I would consider setting up an alibi.

:moo:

http://cms3.tucsonaz.gov/files/poli..._911_audio_ref_isabel_celis_investigation.pdf

I agree with you! Thanks just wasn't enough!
I was convinced the family wasn't involved 100% until I just listened to those calls. The brother and the mom are reacting to a nightmare. The dad sounds like he was ordering a pizza. Dad's call was more about him than Isabel. Way too much extra information. And laughing? Really. There are way too may red flags in Dad's call.