AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #16

[laniefi]

I was absued in my childhood from the age of 5 until almost 16 and I never told anyone until I was 38 years old. BUT CPS had never been to our home.

If they had it wouldnt have taken them long to know something wasnt right and red flags would have been falling everywhere. I was very timid, shy, withdrawn, extremely nervous around my abuser, fearful, and sickly. And if I never told them anything all they would have had to do is have a physical exam done and that is all they would have needed.

I'm sorry for what you went through. I understand!

 

[Prof]

2 pm today presser

I imagine it will be the Chief attempting to put out the fire started last night with the release of the
news of previous CPS visits

 

[liz b.]

Sergio: It's a lot of quiet cuddle time, and holding them. It is wonderful to see when they smile. They come right up, and hold them tight. And the hold right back. It is wearing them down. We didn't even have intentions of possibly getting them back in school this week. I am hoping next week, we will start some school, and set some boundaries. They each have gone back and played one game with their Little League teams. It was extremely difficult. They only have so much time left with school, we do want them back there. But at the same time we do notice it is taking its toll on them.
http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/150175035.html

It seems to me that when he talks about boundaries it means that they expect the boys to get back to school and their hobbies and into a more normal routine. They've been cutting the boys some slack now that they're so upset but it can't go on forever and he wants them to go back.

I don't see here any reference to problems with respecting personal space.

You may well be right, Donjeta.It is JMO that he is using that term in the sense that it is used as a positive discipline technique in parenting. IMO to set boundaries has to do with understanding and respecting personal space. He does not seem to be refereing to school and/or baseball. But, it's JMO

 

[laniefi]

2 pm today presser

I imagine it will be the Chief attempting to put out the fire started last night with the release of the
news of previous CPS visits

2pm MST?

 

[SurfieTX]

2pm MST?

We dubbed it "Arizona time," because they don't comply with daylight savings. So, right now in Arizona time, it is Pacific. It will change back with daylight savings in October.

 

[laniefi]

You may well be right, Donjeta.It is JMO that he is using that term in the sense that it is used as a positive discipline technique in parenting. IMO to set boundaries has to do with understanding and respecting personal space. He does not seem to be refereing to school and/or baseball. But, it's JMO

I took it as getting the kids back into their normal routine. Also, this is a bilingual family so that may be PART of the issue as well.

 

[liz b.]

I was absued in my childhood from the age of 5 until almost 16 and I never told anyone until I was 38 years old. BUT CPS had never been to our home.

If they had it wouldnt have taken them long to know something wasnt right and red flags would have been falling everywhere. I was very timid, shy, withdrawn, extremely nervous around my abuser, fearful, and sickly. And if I never told them anything all they would have had to do is have a physical exam done and that is all they would have needed.

OBE,
I am sincerely sorry that you had to endure this in your childhood. Glad that you prevailed and became such an obviously strong woman...wub ya, liz...

 

[LisaB]

Sorry if it's been answered already, but we have been SPECULATING (in caps, so it's not misunderstood as a FACT) that the surveillance tape wasn't for the night AFTER she was taken (noting the absence of media and LE in the video) and instead was some evening PRIOR to her abuction.

I have said this all along. But the "official" position is now that it was Saturday Night/Sunday morning. I will stick my neck out here. It's not. There is no evidence of Crime Scene tape that was still attacthed to the post the day after the video was released seen in the video supposedly taken after the crime occurred. There was no LE presence, nor media, and there's no sign of the "Command Center". I think it was taken one week before the abduction, on Friday/Saturday.

In any case, I don't think it is from the night that Isa disappeared either. I think it is from an earlier date. But I have no actual PROOF, and LE is considered a "trusted source" while I am not.

And, more specifically, I was addressing Prof, who stated "...the night before Isa went missing, the perp stayed late a few hours after the store (any store) closed to scope out just who might be walking around or awake by around 1:30 am, the time he planned to take her the next night. This perp would be the shadowy figure in the mistaken date surveilance we were given." and who is apparently operating on the assumption that the video was from Thursday Night/Friday morning, although we really have nothing specific to support that theory. According to the "official story" this video is still presumed to be Sat/Sun. In order for the perp to appear on camera Sat/Sun, he would have had to return to the scene of the crime the following night, in spite of heavy LE presence.

Do the bars stay open past 1 on weeknights?

 

[laniefi]

We dubbed it "Arizona time," because they don't comply with daylight savings. So, right now in Arizona time, it is Pacific. It will change back with daylight savings in October.

AH YES! I had forgotten about AZ, Hawaii, and (pre-2005) IN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you!

 

[DIRK SCHILLER]

Yes, a DUI that he seemed to get dismissed by going through diversion...is my understanding.

1997 28-1381A1 DUI-LIQUOR/DRUGS/VAPORS/COMBO COMPL DISMISSED BY COURT

Evidentiy he went 20 miles over the speed limit while under the influence two days before Christmas, in the first year of their marriage.

and what that does mean?
CL0033825 1 DUI; ALCOHOL DRUGS TOXIC VAPOR OR COMBINATION 04/22/2003 COMPL DISMISSED BY CTY ATTY

CL0033825 2 LIQ IN VEHICLE CONSUME/POSSESS 04/22/2003 COMPL DISMISSED BY CTY ATTY

CL0033825 3 CHILD/VULNERABLE ADULT ABUSE 04/22/2003 COMPL DISMISSED BY CTY ATTY

 

[Lark2]

Where did you read/hear about unconfirmed sources indicating the cousin lived with the Celis'?

I recall someone saying it was mentioned on NG or JVM and there was a link provided to a transcript back-thread. But I don't have the link.

 

[laniefi]

and what that does mean?
CL0033825 1 DUI; ALCOHOL DRUGS TOXIC VAPOR OR COMBINATION 04/22/2003 COMPL DISMISSED BY CTY ATTY

CL0033825 2 LIQ IN VEHICLE CONSUME/POSSESS 04/22/2003 COMPL DISMISSED BY CTY ATTY

CL0033825 3 CHILD/VULNERABLE ADULT ABUSE 04/22/2003 COMPL DISMISSED BY CTY ATTY

Did he have one of the kids in the car with him when he got the DUI?

 

[cluciano63]

Just because Sergio has not been charged with anything as yet, does not mean that the issues with CPS are minor, IMO. They may be serious, yet lacking proof enough to charge at this point. Also LE may feel that Sergio being out and about just now is more useful to them for some reason, as long as he is not allowed contact with the kids. JMO

 

[marazul]

IMO only.

I have concerns with how the "abduction" was first communicated as if it was already known for sure this is what occurred. I realize it is an obvious deduction to make, but I have concerns that the dad may have forced a certain theory onto the son and everyone else because lets take a look at the son's very first comment on the 911 call below....

"My sister's gone uh, someone broke in and grabbed her"

Now, let's take a look at the dad's very first comment on his 911 call....

"I believe she was abducted from our house"

Now, let us recall the first televised interview with the dad where he mentions something about "what are your demands"

So, as we summarize all of this, I have to make an assumption that he was the one that made the declaration to the son that this is what has occurred here, and this is the situation.

Again, it is an obvious assumption to make, but let us try to think how each one of us would have communicated if we woke up and saw the situation. The only thing that I can think of that I would be saying is "she is missing and that it appears someone may have broke in and may have took her". I dont think I would take the leap to affirmitively announce that it was definitetly an abduction or that someone grabbed her.

The fact that the son said someone "grabbed her" really bothers me, as if someone used those words to him prior to him making the call (OR) if he maybe even saw something as it was happening.

This just bothers me, and it probably doesn't help anything, but I found it very concerning when thinking about all the statements together, and thinking about those very first statements on the 911 call before much was known by anyone.

Something about this just doesn't feel right, especially, as we now hear of prior CPS involvement.

I am praying for that poor child.

BBM my husband and I both said that is what we would most likely say in that situation as well. Young and missing and open window lead one to that idea, but "I believe she was abducted" seems over-spoken, calculated, and removed from the emergency nature of the situation.

 

[mamamia54]

and what that does mean?
CL0033825 1 DUI; ALCOHOL DRUGS TOXIC VAPOR OR COMBINATION 04/22/2003 COMPL DISMISSED BY CTY ATTY

CL0033825 2 LIQ IN VEHICLE CONSUME/POSSESS 04/22/2003 COMPL DISMISSED BY CTY ATTY

CL0033825 3 CHILD/VULNERABLE ADULT ABUSE 04/22/2003 COMPL DISMISSED BY CTY ATTY

I had wondered about this one yesterday, now I"m thinking that during a traffic stop, PD smelled either drugs or alcohol coming from the vehicle, and that the kids and another adult was in that vehicle. But, what hit me was that the case was dismissed. How could whoever stopped him be so wrong about the drugs/alcohol vapor coming from the vehicle?

 

[cluciano63]

Calmly stating that he believed his child had been abducted seems almost as though Sergio is telling LE what they are to believe, in a way. I can see if he called up screaming that his child was kidnapped, that would be more believable, but saying this in such a calm manner seems unusual to me and kind of scripted. JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm sorry for what you went through. I understand!

Thank you, Lanie, and I am sorry for the pain you have had to edure too.

But for me I put all that behind me many years ago and have been blessed a thousand times over since then.

All is well that ends well and my life for many years now couldnt be any better.

 

[Taminator]

Tucson CPS is famously understaffed and overworked. Mr. Joe Vega (friend of the Celis family) mentioned it in his interview with NG, I'm paraphrasing, "CPS here doesn't have a good name for itself."

He kept trying to explain to Nancy what he meant, but as usual she kept interrupting him. I think she thought he was talking about the police, when he was referring to CPS.

I wish these producers would just do a little research into CPS in AZ. In particular, the cases of the Payne kids and Brandon Williams. The caseworker (who worked both Payne & Williams case, BTW) was making despicable remarks online against the Payne kids' mother DURING their father's trial, a case in which she was a witness and spewing about OTHER cases as well.

 

[SurfieTX]

Calmly stating that he believed his child had been abducted seems almost as though Sergio is telling LE what they are to believe, in a way. I can see if he called up screaming that his child was kidnapped, that would be more believable, but saying this in such a calm manner seems unusual to me and kind of scripted. JMO

Add in the absolute opposite demeanor at the presser (but, he had plenty of time to pen and practice that statement).....Speaking to his audience(s), perhaps?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I had wondered about this one yesterday, now I"m thinking that during a traffic stop, PD smelled either drugs or alcohol coming from the vehicle, and that the kids and another adult was in that vehicle. But, what hit me was that the case was dismissed. How could whoever stopped him be so wrong about the drugs/alcohol vapor coming from the vehicle?

BBM

But wouldnt they charge him for child endangerment like they did Becky?

imo