AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #16

[passionflower]

I was wondering since SC can not be in contact with his children, can he be with other children? (baseball?)

 

[Hatfield]

I thought CPS was Child Protective Services? Pretty sure it involved a child. JMO


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I know this wasnt regarding my post, but I think you missed the word "IF", and the fact she was talking about the 5 months. Below are the statements again.....notice IF and notice talking about length of time. I believe the person realizes it is most likely related to a child.

"Over 5 months later and no resolution?
I cant believe that if it is an allegation concerning a child."

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I was wondering since SC can not be in contact with his children, can he be with other children? (baseball?)

I would think he can be around anyone except his two boys.

But I dont think he will go to the baseball games because his sons would be there.

There is no evidence either that he cant see Becky. I wonder if they are talking daily...maybe when she is on break at work.

IMO

 

[gitana1]

:banghead:However, I am shaken by this latest update. CPS there at the Celis' home in December of 2011?

"CPS visited Isabel's home in December, city police confirm"

Read more: http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...9a3-5df6-a4f1-163f280fad8f.html#ixzz1v77u80KL


Does this even make sense?
Surely, if CPS visited a family home in December, that recently, and then a six year old goes missing within FOUR (4) months, would CPS not take the boys out of the home? STAT?
I don't get it. Something is whacky here.

I'm shaken too. One of the reasons I felt the family wasn't involved is because there was no reported history of possible abuse. This potentially blows that line of thinking right out of the water. If CPS has reports they needed to investigate, the possibility that the family is involved in exponentially higher, IMO.

I am almost afraid to post on this thread because it has been so hostile.

However, I will give it a shot.
va
I find the news that CPS has had previously involvement very disturbing. There has been something going on in the house for quite some time. That means it was either a mandatory reporter that notified CPS or a "nosy" neighbor.

Now the speculation will begin. Did the investigation have to do with abuse if so what sort of abuse.

People have been very defensive of their personal theories but from what I have read all the theories have been reasonable. There has been no talk of alien abductions so I don't see a problem. I hate to watch all of us argue and time out starts.

The main problem all of us have been having is the lack of investigative reporting. Most news is just regurgated. It is like a big game of telephone where little details get changed and then it turns into a big disaster.

The reason I like websleuths is we usually can discuss theories but for some reason this case is different....

All of this has been my personal speculation, opinion, and so on and so forth.

There HAS been talk of alien abductions!!!!!! LOL!!!

OK, so it is still speculation? Or is AZlawyer verified?
I don't mean to argue, just that speculation and rumors are being taken as a fact.
I am fine with speculation, conspiracy theories, etc. I just want it to be labeled as such so when someone pops in and reads just the last page they don't take speculation as fact.

Is there an official no-contact order?

If nothing has been filed officially and it's just a voluntary agreement that Sergio moves away from the kids it seems to me that it would be valid for just as long as everybody still agrees to it.

AZ lawyer was asked how long a no contact order would last, IIRC. She gave the answer: 90 days. But there has been no official court order in this case. Because for that, you need a hearing, unless LE issued a temporary order which would have lasted only until the next court day. That day has come and gone. There is no court order.

Further, reports indicate that both parents agreed to no contact on the part of Sergio with the boys. That means it is a voluntary safety plan.

Parental rights are sacred ones. You cannot get rights to be with, see, talk to your child, taken away without a court order and every such court order involves a hearing, whether a hearing with very little notice, no notice based on a threat of harm if notice is given before the emergency hearing (in such a case, the other side receives notice after the hearing and is given a new hearing date at which to contest the orders), or at a regularly noticed hearing, which generally occurs within 30 days or so after notice.

I honestly think they are just using cps to keep the faily apart for the time being!

I suspect CPS may indeed be working (informally) with LE to do just that, for strategic purposes. But there must be some solid reason for the requirement that Sergio stay away from those kids, or he would be screaming from the rooftops.

 

[mamamia54]

Even though it was in 1993, Sergio Possession, manufacture, delivery and advertisement of drug paraphernalia. he pled guilty, seems that he was possibly growing pot, which would account for the manufacture, he was also selling it, and even possibly selling pipes etc. JMHO from what the filing states.

 

[Donjeta]

You may well be right, Donjeta.It is JMO that he is using that term in the sense that it is used as a positive discipline technique in parenting. IMO to set boundaries has to do with understanding and respecting personal space. He does not seem to be refereing to school and/or baseball. But, it's JMO

I just don't see anything in his context that indicates that he's using the word in that sense. He is all about baseball and school in that statement. I don't think we can expect that he uses this lingo in the same sense a therapist might.

The family is bilingual so it might be a translation issue as well.

JMO even if there happened to be problems with the boys' understanding of personal space Sergio would have had no reason whatsoever to bring their issues up in that interview. The family were trying to project a positive image and make people focus on finding Isabel and a stranger perp and bringing up any parenting issues they might have with the boys would have been completely counterproductive.

 

[abstr]

You are correct regarding there not being an order, since SC voluntarily agreed to "No contact" with the boys. IMO, AZLawyer did a terrific job explaining what a "Voluntary" - CPS agreement involves. Here is a link to the discussion, starting at post #23 and continued on the next page:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172284

jmo

Thank you. I think AZlawyer did a great job. I just think that someone who has legit info has that info turned into ..THIS IS WHAT IS THE FACT IN THIS CASE. It is correct info that 90 days is the term of no contact order (according to AZ) but that does not mean it is the case with Isa...and then what AZ wanted as information and never stated was the fact here is now stated as fact. It makes my blood boil.

 

[jennapuppy]

YIKES! So Octomom could leave her 3 year old octuplets alone because their ages add to 24? NO FREAKIN' WAY!?!? Maybe if TWO of them added up to 20 it would make more sense.

Ssshhh....don't let Octomom hear you say that!

 

[LisaB]

Whose unconfirmed sources? Does this mean rumor on threads? Is there a post I might view where this comes from?
TIA!

The now defunct Hinky Meter, Blink on Crime (not allowed to link) and I believe Nancy Grace. None of these are really 100% reliable sources.

 

[LisaB]

In NV i think 10 years to stay alone for a short amount of time and 12 to babysit the others. I think 10 to stay in the car while running. I will have to read the laws again. When i had 3 in diapers and have to run to the local store I new all those laws, i would have nieces watch them.

Wow. In MD, you can't leave a child in a running car unless she/he is a licensed driver. So, minimum of 16.

 

[abstr]

Ssshhh....don't let Octomom hear you say that!

LOL. that could derail this thread in a huge way if we went there.....

 

[FrayedKnot]

I overlooked the child/vulnerable abuse charge. Why are they all dismissed? Does he have some kind of pull in the court system?

Excellent question. There seems to be a narcotics division chief that a family member of BC's has listed as a relative. Let me find the chain and I will post the links here.


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[rpgman]

Originally Posted by abstr View Post
OK, so it is still speculation? Or is AZlawyer verified?
I don't mean to argue, just that speculation and rumors are being taken as a fact.
I am fine with speculation, conspiracy theories, etc. I just want it to be labeled as such so when someone pops in and reads just the last page they don't take speculation as fact.

If you mean has AZlawyer been verified as a lawyer?

Yes, years ago during the Caylee Anthony case.

I remember her awesome comments and info back then.

 

[abstr]

Wow. In MD, you can't leave a child in a running car unless she/he is a licensed driver. So, minimum of 16.

I didn't know that. I live on the MD/DC border.
Is it ok if one kid is on a provisional and the younger ones are teens under 16?
I think I have been breaking the law.
No more 7-11 runs where the kids sit in the car in PJ's....and in relation to this thread....PJ's are whatever comfortable clothes they have. They each get new PJ's at Christmas but probably wear them 10 % of the time

 

[DIRK SCHILLER]

The dogs infraction occurred Thurs 4/19 -
Friday - 4/20 -- Celis family goes to ballgame, last known citing of Isabel
Saturday - 4/21 -- 911 called regarding Isabel missing in the a.m.

I wonder SC (on the dogs, running around and getting outside the walls, the night before) let the dogs out in an attempt to get rid of them: that way no noise from barking and no one is alarmed to anything going on when Isabel is taken.
Maybe the "abduction" was planned by dad (and someone else)?
Can´t believe a perp would know they had no alarm, no cams, no fear from the dogs, how did he get into the house , did get out carrying a 6 years old without none noticing anything? not knowing where Isa´s bedroom was and if she had a single room,neighbours,family , did not see /hear any strangers, cars,hmmm

 

[FrayedKnot]

My point was that I was not sure why his previous records were brought up again, since he has nothing prior that relates to violence, or anything considered very serious.

Possibly for the same reason LE is now investigating their financial records.


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[prima.facie]

I still have a hard time believing Sergio is an abuser. He is 41 years old and there is nothing in his criminal background showing he is violent.

IMO

The amount of abuse that happens in homes w/ "super nice, normal, loving, etc etc" parents is probably an alarming amount....all awhile CPS nor LE ever once being involved.

Fact is, what goes on behind closed doors can be VERY different than what appears to happen out in public amongst friends, family and strangers.

Humans can be quite the deceptive species.....


ETA...I see your following responses...so you get what im saying (unfortunately)

 

[LisaB]

BBM

The transcript says the brother said, "Hey, I need you guys to come down. My sister's gone uh, someone broke in and grabbed her." That doesn't sound to me like he saw what happened.

http://cms3.tucsonaz.gov/files/poli..._911_audio_ref_isabel_celis_investigation.pdf

Maybe it is me, but it would seem more logical if the BOY was saying "My sister has been kidnapped." Like Sergio, claiming that nobody heard or saw a thing, and she is just missing. "Broke in and grabbed her" may be making an assumption about something nobody saw. But IF a cartel type group had "terrorized" the family before taking Isabel as "collateral", what he says makes sense. But IF that had happened, Sergio may not have wanted it reported that way, and used the term "abducted" and stated that nobody heard or saw a thing, rather than discuss the involvement witht he cartel. This sounds ridiculous when I try explaining it. Sorry.

 

[johnQpublic]

Even though it was in 1993, Sergio Possession, manufacture, delivery and advertisement of drug paraphernalia. he pled guilty, seems that he was possibly growing pot, which would account for the manufacture, he was also selling it, and even possibly selling pipes etc. JMHO from what the filing states.

JMO but having seen citations in AZ for drug related things... Having not seen a Residue notation and the use of the term vapor in a few of his charges... I would speculate Meth was the narcotic in question. I would also say it would be in the realm of speculation that he could have been a cook since he has a medical background. JMO but it seems possible. Also... AZ usually put poss/marj and any other parafanalia such as pipes and papers on the charges..

 

[Hatfield]

OT
With all these unsolved missing cases, what is real scary to me is the realization that it must be easier to hide a person than I had ever thought. I had always assumed that most people would be found right away or the perp(s) caught right away, but the more + more cases that seem to go on forever with no resolution, it becomes very concerning. Especially in well populated areas with cameras everywhere, etc. I am upset that missing people cannot be found more quickly or cases solved more quickly.

Is this a sign maybe that LE is not getting enough training to handle these sort of cases (OR) is it just much easier than I ever thought to kidnap and then hide someone. Its just so upsetting.