AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #16

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can i ask a dumb question (sure white rabbit lol). were there time stamps on any of the 911 transcripts?

and...in the beginning MSM reported RC as leaving for work at 7:30. in the 911 call she stated "7:00". the website says 6:30. when the heck did she leave for work???

http://bringisahome.com/about-isa/

Isabel Mercedes Celis's parents put her to bed on the night of Friday, April 20th around 11pm. Mom woke up before everyone else, got ready for work and left around 6:30am. Dad woke up shortly after and went to wake the children. It was around 8am when he noticed Isa was not in her room.

you'd think on the 'official website' the administrator would collaborate with at least MSM if not TPD in relaying this information (not to mention the family). no criticism for any of the above but...what's the truth here???

There were no timestamps... I looked for them, too.
I don't know why.
Here's the official verision
http://cms3.tucsonaz.gov/files/poli..._911_audio_ref_isabel_celis_investigation.pdf
 
No civil cases have been discussed yet today, Joe. Although they have on previous threads. Did you have something to discuss about this one?

Nothing in particular, but civil cases to me could at least be some sort of motive for someone to do something to the family. Wasn't sure if we sleuthed this one out and figured out it was not a big deal, etc. like the dogs turned out to be no big deal (to some :).
 
The dogs infraction occurred Thurs 4/19 -
Friday - 4/20 -- Celis family goes to ballgame, last known citing of Isabel
Saturday - 4/21 -- 911 called regarding Isabel missing in the a.m.

I wonder SC (on the dogs, running around and getting outside the walls, the night before) let the dogs out in an attempt to get rid of them: that way no noise from barking and no one is alarmed to anything going on when Isabel is taken.
Maybe the "abduction" was planned by dad (and someone else)?
Can´t believe a perp would know they had no alarm, no cams, no fear from the dogs, how did he get into the house , did get out carrying a 6 years old without none noticing anything? not knowing where Isa´s bedroom was and if she had a single room,neighbours,family , did not see /hear any strangers, cars,hmmm

JMO.

The perp knowing which room/window she was in....is definitely bothersome. That fact alone reeks of someone knowing which room she must have slept in. Because from the outside, it is not real obvious which room someone would be in.

The dogs getting out the day before is bothersome as well. Just wondering if maybe the original plan was for the night that the dogs got out (or were let out), and maybe the planning failed due to the dogs staying around or someone calling about the dogs or something.

There are so many possibilities.
 
just a thought....could they separate him from them instead of arrest him so they can monitor his calls, visitors, location, etc...whereas if he was in jail, those potential leads dry up?

I would think they would already be able to do that.

I actually think if he was arrested more leads would flood in.

IMO
 
I don't see how we can make any calls as to what kind of incidents led to Sergio being kept away from his kids...it could be serious and they just can't prove it yet. He would not be arrested if accused of a serious charge, or even a minor offense, unless it could be proven. JMO
 
There has been no source cited that has JM ever living in the Celis home.

Forgive me if it's been answered already, but has it been verified that JM was EVER staying in the house? Or are we just speculating that he was possibly staying in the house, possibly in December, then possibly kicked out?

The problem is that is a rumour and we do not know if he actually ever lived there, unless this has been confirmed?


Bombshell tonight. A source now claims police looking closely at Isabel`s male cousin, who once lived in the home, cops holding back leads, quote, "too sensitive to release." In the last hours, cleaning crews pull up in the family`s driveway. Why? Tonight where is 6-year-old Isabel?

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1205/02/ng.01.html

Now there is. She showed a criminal record on the screen that is identical to JM's, which is public record.
 
I would think they would already be able to do that.

I actually think if he was arrested more leads would flood in.

IMO

I'm sure they are doing that now...but if he's in jail, I just meant all of that possible intelligence goes away because there isn't much to monitor while sitting behind bars.
 
can i ask a dumb question (sure white rabbit lol). were there time stamps on any of the 911 transcripts?

and...in the beginning MSM reported RC as leaving for work at 7:30. in the 911 call she stated "7:00". the website says 6:30. when the heck did she leave for work???

http://bringisahome.com/about-isa/

Isabel Mercedes Celis's parents put her to bed on the night of Friday, April 20th around 11pm. Mom woke up before everyone else, got ready for work and left around 6:30am. Dad woke up shortly after and went to wake the children. It was around 8am when he noticed Isa was not in her room.

you'd think on the 'official website' the administrator would collaborate with at least MSM if not TPD in relaying this information (not to mention the family). no criticism for any of the above but...what's the truth here???

If RC left for work around 6:30, and Sergio awoke shortly thereafter, then at least one of them had to be aware of the voices that were heard by the neighbor. I've thought that the voices could have been Sergio and his son discussing the screen, but wouldn't they have come forward and said so?
 
can i ask a dumb question (sure white rabbit lol). were there time stamps on any of the 911 transcripts?

and...in the beginning MSM reported RC as leaving for work at 7:30. in the 911 call she stated "7:00". the website says 6:30. when the heck did she leave for work???

http://bringisahome.com/about-isa/

Isabel Mercedes Celis's parents put her to bed on the night of Friday, April 20th around 11pm. Mom woke up before everyone else, got ready for work and left around 6:30am. Dad woke up shortly after and went to wake the children. It was around 8am when he noticed Isa was not in her room.

you'd think on the 'official website' the administrator would collaborate with at least MSM if not TPD in relaying this information (not to mention the family). no criticism for any of the above but...what's the truth here???

It makes no sense to me. If Dad woke up shortly after 6.30 am and went to wake the children it wouldn't have taken him until 8 am to notice that Isabel was gone. It's not THAT big of a house.
 
JMO.

The perp knowing which room/window she was in....is definitely bothersome. That fact alone reeks of someone knowing which room she must have slept in. Because from the outside, it is not real obvious which room someone would be in.

The dogs getting out the day before is bothersome as well. Just wondering if maybe the original plan was for the night that the dogs got out (or were let out), and maybe the planning failed due to the dogs staying around or someone calling about the dogs or something.

There are so many possibilities.

Hi Hatfield!

The dogs got out a week before... not the day before. I think I recall he picked them up on Wednesday of the following week so they were already back in the home days before Isa went missing.

But I have always had concern that someone else let those dogs out on purpose.

IMO
 
can i ask a dumb question (sure white rabbit lol). were there time stamps on any of the 911 transcripts?

and...in the beginning MSM reported RC as leaving for work at 7:30. in the 911 call she stated "7:00". the website says 6:30. when the heck did she leave for work???

http://bringisahome.com/about-isa/

Isabel Mercedes Celis's parents put her to bed on the night of Friday, April 20th around 11pm. Mom woke up before everyone else, got ready for work and left around 6:30am. Dad woke up shortly after and went to wake the children. It was around 8am when he noticed Isa was not in her room.

you'd think on the 'official website' the administrator would collaborate with at least MSM if not TPD in relaying this information (not to mention the family). no criticism for any of the above but...what's the truth here???

Exactly my point. NO ONE knows specifically a time when Isa went missing.
 
Before he was removed from their home,SC said that he wanted to " set some boundaries " for the two boys.

In my experience that expression, to set some boundaries, has to do with teaching kids to respect the personal space of others. IMO, he is saying,in a subtle way, that the two boys did not,and do not have strong boundaries.

In CPS speak, a child with "weak boundaries " or "boundary issues " will often go into another kid's room at night. Among other things.

This was quite different from SC's wanting to re-establish normal routines for the two boys, such as school and playing baseball again.

And he made this statement shortly before the NCO was put in place. Wonder why he would bring up boundary issues with regard to the two remaining kids, at that particular time ?

JMO

I know a few separated or divorced couples where the father was the disciplinarian and STILL has to tell the kids not to talk back to their mom, etc. because (without him in the home) they may tend to disrespect her. I do not mean to cast aspersions on this family, just mentioning that it is an issue some families deal with during separations or deployments.
 
Yes, I am aware of that, but usually I have a strong sixth sense about abusive people and I am just not getting with Sergio. Maybe I am just getting old. LOL!

It doesnt mean he isnt abusive but I just dont feel it this time. In fact I get the feeling he is codependent on Becky and is the weaker one in the marriage.

Abuse happens in homes 95% more often than abuse by strangers but I cant and dont judge cases based on statistics because it is well known stranger pedophiles do kidnap young children from their own homes. Until I know what category Isa falls in I will keep an open mind about that.

I dont know what the reason is that Sergio has agreed to stay away from his sons but it isnt an arresting offense or this particular LE team would gladly pick Mr. Celis up and arrest him for child abuse instead he is free to come and go as he wishes. I dont even think the two incidences are connected. It wouldnt take them from December until the middle of May to make their move, imo.

Now if they announce today that an arrest has been made concerning child abuse and Sergio that will be a confirmation to me but until then I am puzzled trying to figure out what is really going on.

IMO


Oh I Do!!!!

Seems like a Jerk to me!

I told her to get her butt home!


jmo
 
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1205/02/ng.01.html

Now there is. She showed a criminal record on the screen that is identical to JM's, which is public record.

But even Nancy said he use to live there. Did he ever put down their address as his address.

I honestly dont think he was there that night. Neighbors would have seen him coming in and out and no one has ever mentioned seeing him the night they came home from the ballgame or even confirmed it was JM that went to the neighbors door around 8.

When he was in the media it was much later in the day and evening.

imo
 
On the topic of Drug related issues and the Cartel perception... Let's just speculate this scenario for a second... If SC was in some way involved in the Meth business or a user then that would explain " who have we had in our home who could have done this " and the appearance to neighbors of strange people coming and going and appearing as cartel activity... Not only that but it could also put this scenario in play... Let's say maybe he left a teaner lay out and Isa thought it was a bag of sugar candy and swallowed down the Meth, she overdosed. SC then took the body somewhere and cleaned the house up and staged the scene as would be the typical behavior of a tweaker. The residue of meth use would also cause a cadaver dog to hit on the smell of death. IDK but my thought is that if your kid accidentally OD'd on your drugs you just wouldn't take her to the ER and having a nurse for a wife you wouldn't go waking her up to tell her about it. Not to mention... if you had a late night at the ball field and you need to be up early for another game.. Wouldn't you think you would goto bed and not watch a 9 inning pro ball game on tv. And the statement ' after they all went to bed, I watched the d'backs game ' an indicater that he was up to no good, hitting the tweak pipe... He is calm in the 911 call because he is on a come down from using and he is emotionally disconnected from the situation as well.. Not only that but he has a sense of paranoia and gives what appears to be a detailed alibi and without any called ending salutation he simple hangs up the phone with the 911 operator.
 
Theory:

CPS visited the family in December. Investigating something that turned out to be un-provable about the father and his treatment of Isa, but serious enough that a person close to them who adored Isa decided she had to be removed for her own safety.

This person takes Isa, figuring either the mother didn't act to protect her or would not even with a divorce be able to keep Isa away from the dad. This abduction happened with or without the mother's knowledge, but maybe the mother has figured this out and this explains her calm Mother's Day appearance when she/her sons look forward to being together as a family, with Isa (no mention of Sergio). It could also somewhat explain Sergio's demeanor on the phone; he thinks it's a joke or something over which he will scold his wife ("I told her to get her butt home") and maybe his reluctance to call 911 in the first place (Becky would have insisted he did, which leads me to think she didn't know the abduction was going to happen). It also explains their reluctance to talk to the media and their "we want to keep this about Isa."

So, the question becomes: Who knew about the allegations that resulted in the first CPS visit?

Of course, part of the reason I like this scenario so much is it leaves open a possibility that Isa is alive and not being hurt.

With my new theory in hand, I went back and re-watched the parents talk to the local media and I also re-watched RC's Mother's Day interview. VERY interesting.

A few thoughts --

1. As Sergio laughed during the 911 call, he also laughed during the long interview when asked, "What do you say to the people who wonder if you had anything to do with Isa's disappearance?" (question paraphrased) He laughs twice during his answer. This has nothing to do with my theory, but I wanted to note that!

2. On Mother's Day, when interviewed outside her house (which I maintain was deliberate; she had to know she'd be asked for an interview), she makes it clear the boys are with her (because the public had been speculating which parent got custody) and that she hoped Isabel would be home for Mother's Day. "But I don't know the plan." To me and my theory, it obviously seems she believes there IS a plan, and she wasn't a part of it. As many people have commented, she also seems way more relaxed than previous times we've seen her, maybe because she now believes the person who took Isa does not intend to harm her. Had she wanted to show unity with Sergio, she could have had both of them go into the house (as long as the kids weren't around), but she didn't. She wanted to make it clear she was standing on her own, waiting for "the plan" to unfold.

3. If my theory is correct, that the person who took Isa did so because she/he believes Isa was being abused and RC nor CPS was doing enough to stop it, then the first interviews with the parents must have completely irked the abductor because what was presented above all else was a unified front between the parents. And Sergio talked and talked about his new camera and how he took so many pictures of Isa and her new dog - if I were the person who called CPS - if it was in RE: to Sergio - I would be furious to hear him talk that way. And cuddling with the boys and holding them tight....

All these other things being announced in the press - that Sergio was not permitted contact, that CPS had been at the home before, (again) RC standing alone not talking about Sergio - could be a way of sending a message to the abductor - "we get it now." "We will pursue this path you wanted us to pursue before."

People thought Sergio's comment, "Tell us your demands" was odd, but it's true that an abductor WOULD have a motive/reason, and maybe the DEMAND is actually, "Get that guy away from Isa." And that demand is now being met.

4. And what was Becky sneering about throughout that whole interview? I'm sure she hated having to do it, but could the sneer also have been for what Sergio was saying?

"Bring Isa Home."

Any thoughts, anyone? In any case, I do urge everyone to go back and watch what the parents have said again in light of the past several days' events. It might help us all see new things we missed before.
 
Perhaps you missed the subject in my prior post.

We were discussing that CPS had been in the Celis home in December yet Sergio was not removed from his home. Some were discussing it would take that long to verify the abuse occured and I posted I dont think it would take 5 months for a resolution for any allegation of abuse to a child.

I dont know where you came up with that I said it didnt involve a child though.

You're absolutely right! I DID misunderstand your post! I get what you were saying.

What I thought you meant was that if there had been no resolution after 5 months, then it must not involve a child. Duh!

I apologize, I am on pain meds pending root canal so I am a bit wonky. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Originally Posted by Prof View Post
2 pm today presser

I imagine it will be the Chief attempting to put out the fire started last night with the release of the news of previous CPS visits

Whoa, I missed this news. Don't see anything on KVOA - are there details somewhere? What was reported? TIA!
 
Someone asked a thread or two back if anyone had an ancestry.com account....did someone find something there? I have one but was unable to respond because of the server problems at the time.
 
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