AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #17

[Kat]

I interpreted and speculated that RC was *possibly* refering to this door when she said the door the outside was locked.

http://www.knst.com/cc-common/gallery/photos.html?album_id=316892&p=19086953#/0/19086953

picture one. It's only my speculation. FWIW, there was a very short video clip of a local reporter standing in front of the door just filming a leadin for local news and there were a couple prayer candles lit to the side of this door. But I can't find the video. It was just a lead in. All JMHO and possible speculation.

ETA: also picture 11.

 

[Prof]

See, THIS is what concerns me, the drug connections, and it's right out there in public record for everyone who cares to look can clearly see and take note of. I know that we have all been attempting to stay away from the obvious, but it's like an Elephant in the middle of the room.

I don't see the elephant, and we have had the court docs since Isa disappeared. That's usually the first thing a thread with POIs discusses IMO

The only thing related to drugs I have seen is on JM and it's a possession for use
charge that was completely dismissed by the city attorney.
MARIJUANA-POSSESS/USE 9/14/2011
COMPL DISMISSED BY CTY ATTY

I have seen nothing but traffic records (and the dog at large charges). I double check each time... thinking maybe I am wrong...but notthat I have found so far.

Sergio had a DUI years ago.
RC had one more recently.
The family in general is prone to DUIs.
Some posters might see the general name of the charge that includes ALCOHOL DRUGS TOXIC VAPOR OR COMBINATION
and assume it involes drugs, which cannot be verified.

So until someone shows me where this alleged drug connection is I see no elephant.

 

[BaxterDE42]

Okay, did more digging around LE and Court sites and found the LE 9-1-1 Transcript that is LESS redacted than that which was released thru the media. It will answer more questions as to which vehicle was being driven and questions about Jr driving around. And it has a little more indication of how 'unaware' SC was as he appears to not even know Isa's birthday and makes several corrections to discriptions.

Becky also self-corrects herself on the age of her daughter in this audio (from f...to six).

Consider that aside from the gravity of the circumstances surrounding this call, this family may likely have a language gap, and certainly a cultural one. Not all people speak or act like our neighbors down the block. I am not putting much stock on SC's perceived lack of factual information at this time for many reasons. I do know that even the most innocent or the most evil of persons, at some point stumble through their verbal recollection of events. There is also something about Becky that jerks my chain and I wonder if she was even with her children on the night in question.

Thanks for the audio. What did you hear that may or may not have made a difference in your opinion of the situation after listening?

 

[Kat]

IMO Google satelite zoomed to street view is the best pic of that gate you are going to get.
IMO there are not big arching swing marks as if it was used. There are no ruts in the gravel there that I can see....
IMO this gate was not used for vehicles if ever used at all.
Did you get a screen shot of that?

The angle of the picture on that fence makes it appear shorter than it is in other pics don't you think Prof?

I saw this pic:

http://www.knst.com/cc-common/gallery/photos.html?album_id=316892&p=19086953#/8/19086964

Picture # 9. And it looks to be fairly tall. What height do you estimate it to be at? TIA.

 

[Whisperer]

These people have to use that wood wide gate. That Garbage Can is back in the alley. Wasn't p/u the next day? Or am I confused with another case?

If males were talking by Isa's window, somebody was let in through the gate and exited through the gate...and then it had to be locked again when they left.

So either SC was talking to one of his sons near the window that morning or a couple of males jumped the fence to take Isa.They exited through the wide gate and then had something to step on and lock the gate from the inside (pretty dramatic and unrealistic). The dogs never would have stopped barking if they were strangers in the yard and the neighbor would not have heard voices due to frantic barking of the dogs.

I can say with pretty much certainty that there is no criminal (unless insane) that is going to enter that yard for a burglary or a kdinapping. That leaves the entire stranger thing ruled out...imo. I suspect the male voices may have been Sergio and someone else. They may have carried her through the window to a car waiting by the gate.

 

[mamamia54]

I don't see the elephant, and we have had the court docs since Isa disappeared. That's usually the first thing a thread with POIs discusses IMO

The only thing related to drugs I have seen is on JM and it's a possession for use
charge that was completely dismissed by the city attorney.
MARIJUANA-POSSESS/USE 9/14/2011
COMPL DISMISSED BY CTY ATTY

I have seen nothing but traffic records (and the dog at large charges). I double check each time... thinking maybe I am wrong...but notthat I have found so far.

Sergio had a DUI years ago.
RC had one more recently.
The family in general is prone to DUIs.
Some posters might see the general name of the charge that includes ALCOHOL DRUGS TOXIC VAPOR OR COMBINATION
and assume it involes drugs, which cannot be verified.

So until someone shows me where this alleged drug connection is I see no elephant.

ALCOHOL DRUGS TOXIC VAPOR OR COMBINATION means nothing to anyone else but me? We all know what alcohol is, we all know what drugs are, toxic vapor in combination with all the rest is of no importance to anyone but me? Yes, it's a general name for a possible combination of all the rest listed. So, somewhere therein lies the truth. There is an Elephant to me, JMHO.

 

[Anita Richman]

Q: Okay. Does uh, any uh, marks, scars?
A2 (RC): Other than the window out, I can't see anything else. And the door is locked to the outside, so they had to have jumped over the fence or, I dont know what they did, but oh my god, the cops are here, can I just hang up..

Well this is interesting, because as one poster mentioned, there was a garbage can outside the wall toward the back of the house, and just around the corner from that big gate.

There was also a short electrical box of some sort, at the corner, which may have been used to leap over the fence. Not sure how they would have gotten back over the fence, carrying a 44 lb child without help.

 

[johnQpublic]

So until someone shows me where this alleged drug connection is I see no elephant.

Do more looking around at the other relatives and learn more about coding used on court documents... I already said, if you don't understand the combinations and wording on a case document your looking at to call the court clerk... There is an Elephant in the middle of the room which is one thing that makes this case so difficult to work with. LE has also made it very clear that they have NOT ruled out a drug connection NOR have they ruled out family. Trust me, I am not trying to slander the family in any way shape or form... I am merely researching thier history. Which if you know what your reading and know where to look for information. I happen to know what I am looking through I worked with a narcotics task force in AZ.

 

[Prof]

But didn't her son say she was in the house? Also she could have been looking while she was on the phone? I don't really know how much time passed between RC getting home, "freaking out", and speaking with 911.

Yes

 

[Kat]

Personal speculation:

Most houses I have seen that were recent builds (within the last decade) in the SW had a kind of "cubby" area outside to store the garbage cans (and recycle can). I wonder *if* the Celis home has a "cubby" for the bins, if so where is it located? I don't see one to this side of the house but the fencing is really high to be able to see over into the yard.

Just chatting, not going anywhere specific with this...JMHO.

 

[Knox]

The angle of the picture on that fence makes it appear shorter than it is in other pics don't you think Prof?

I saw this pic:

http://www.knst.com/cc-common/gallery/photos.html?album_id=316892&p=19086953#/8/19086964

Picture # 9. And it looks to be fairly tall. What height do you estimate it to be at? TIA.

Reports have consistently said the wall around the house is 5' tall. The wood fence is either 4' or 5' feet tall (step down in plaster wall noted), moo.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Residential fences are to be no higher than 6'. That fence appears to be 5-6' tall.

 

[WhatsupAZ]

Probably to take out the garbage.

Its the RV gait, practically every house in az has one.

 

[Knox]

ALCOHOL DRUGS TOXIC VAPOR OR COMBINATION means nothing to anyone else but me? We all know what alcohol is, we all know what drugs are, toxic vapor in combination with all the rest is of no importance to anyone but me? Yes, it's a general name for a possible combination of all the rest listed. So, somewhere therein lies the truth. There is an Elephant to me, JMHO.

I think that is descriptive legal language of an offense. Meaning when you get a DUI, you can be under the influence of any of the above?

 

[Eileen730]

But didn't her son say she was in the house? Also she could have been looking while she was on the phone? I don't really know how much time passed between RC getting home, "freaking out", and speaking with 911.

SC was on the phone with 911 I believe he said youngest son was outside waiting for mom to come home i think oldest son then drives up and sees mom and mom gets on the phone

 

[txanmom]

Do more looking around at the other relatives and learn more about coding used on court documents... I already said, if you don't understand the combinations and wording on a case document your looking at to call the court clerk... There is an Elephant in the middle of the room which is one thing that makes this case so difficult to work with. LE has also made it very clear that they have NOT ruled out a drug connection NOR have they ruled out family. Trust me, I am not trying to slander the family in any way shape or form... I am merely researching thier history. Which if you know what your reading and know where to look for information. I happen to know what I am looking through I worked with a narcotics task force in AZ.

Well, I will have to go back and find the link to the courthouse, but I remember very early on going there and SC had a charge for distribution (or something like that) back in '93 *I think?*

You are right, I need to go back. But, how does this factor in, do you think? I thought of the OD angle, but are you thinking someone took her to retaliate against him? Because we still have to figure out how they got in and out to do that.

Plus, if he was a dealer, he would have had to get rid of his product and any large cash before LE got there. (hmmmm maybe the car? - male voices?)

 

[time]

I interpreted and speculated that RC was *possibly* refering to this door when she said the door the outside was locked.

http://www.knst.com/cc-common/gallery/photos.html?album_id=316892&p=19086953#/0/19086953

picture one. It's only my speculation. FWIW, there was a very short video clip of a local reporter standing in front of the door just filming a leadin for local news and there were a couple prayer candles lit to the side of this door. But I can't find the video. It was just a lead in. All JMHO and possible speculation.

ETA: also picture 11.

Thank you! Seems everytime I look at any pic related to the house I see something different... is that a really low wall out front and is it accessible to the rest of the yard?

Thinking also ... not impossible that Isa was lowered out some other window of the house (and it was then closed), probably assuming more than one perp though and not knowing whether the Celis' said all the rest of the windows were locked. That doesn't really answer how someone got into the house though.

 

[Prof]

Do more looking around at the other relatives and learn more about coding used on court documents... I already said, if you don't understand the combinations and wording on a case document your looking at to call the court clerk... There is an Elephant in the middle of the room which is one thing that makes this case so difficult to work with. LE has also made it very clear that they have NOT ruled out a drug connection NOR have they ruled out family. Trust me, I am not trying to slander the family in any way shape or form... I am merely researching thier history. Which if you know what your reading and know where to look for information. I happen to know what I am looking through I worked with a narcotics task force in AZ.

If I had found evidence of SC's connnection to drugs, I would certainly have no hesitation in posting that evidence (redacting any birthdates/addresses/identifying numbers/etc. of course). I would explain these mysterious codes to others, if I had that information.

 

[Shelby2]

The transcript does say that "I looked" but it was unclear to me on the tape.

It is odd...for sure.

Ok if you read this it shows that some time passed between the first call when SC says his ten year old is n he garage with his wife, and a SUBSEQUENT call where he talks to dispatch then gives the phone to RC

http://azstarnet.com/online/pdf/tra...pdf_9aaeead6-9e46-11e1-8e9c-001a4bcf887a.html

 

[txanmom]

Its the RV gait, practically every house in az has one.

Could a person squeeze between it without unlocking or unlatching it? I ask, because we had a worn gate where this was possible.