AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #17

[~n/t~]

Would public vigils be held if there was a threat to this family? I'm not asking the question to disparage anyone's theory. I am truly curious if this is something that would be done if Isabel was a victim of some illegal organization?

My next question is if we go with the theory that one parent harmed Isa, why in the world would the other parent stick up for them? Like in the Lisa Irwin case, that is one of the points that continues to stick in my mind. I have a hard time believing one would cover up for the other unless of course they're both involved.

Where is Isabel? What happened to her? I fear this case is headed to the same place so many others are. No resolve.

 

[BrownRice]

Since I'm new, I'm attempting to catch up and to learn more about your website. Does this blog actually have any policy about how much we are allowed to post on possible theories of a crime? I'm trying to understand what the limitations are.

What is considered acceptable? As long as it's a plausible theory, and it's stated as only conjecture, is that OK? If we post more than the moderators are comfortable with, will they automatically stop us?

I have seen speculation that crime blogs could adversely effect law enforcement or prosecution in an eventual trial. Is that considered to be a real concern here?

It's pretty simple here. No sleuthing of minors (ever), no sleuthing of victims or people who haven't been named suspects or POI's. In this case, "everybody" is basically a POI so it's free game (except for Isa's siblings). You can't post comments from other websites (including news sites). You can post the news site link and tell people to look for the comment. You can't copy and paste an entire article from another link; just give the link and a small blurb and the readers can find the rest.

Welcome!

 

[BrownRice]

I still don't know what to think of this family. I was 100% supportive of both parents until the 911 call. Then all heck broke loose when SC removed himself from the picture (so to speak) and the CPS story came out.

If I were SC and completely innocent (and BC believed I was as well), I would hold a joint press conference (live) and emphatically state this and give as much info as possible. I would say let's get the story back to finding Isa, but if you must continue to demonize me, do it, but you're wrong. If BC doesn't want to be part of this, SC should do it on his own.

 

[FrayedKnot]

However, it is a valid question to ask just how the screen came to be detached and put out in the yard. Why was the window open and the curtains pushed to the side? WAS IT STAGED?

Yes. IMO


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[TxLady2]

SC states "We woke up" and she's gone. I woke up my sons we looked everywhere in the house.
We woke up then he states he woke the boy's up. Who was We?

This could be another one of those language barrier things. I assume that if English is not his first language, then he is thinking in Spanish while speaking in English. People often correct themselves in the same sentence.

At any rate, I don't get excited about something not being worded perfectly, especially if they're bilingual.

 

[TxLady2]

I have been looking at these things for about five years. I am highly suspicious when pronouns are changed. Jeremy Irwin did the same thing.

When you are speaking for yourself, there should be an explanation of why "I" suddenly turns to "We". It didn't happen from experienced memory because, if it did, the person would explain how the other enters the scene. He doesn't. In my opinion, he is not speaking the truth about how that discovery occurred.

I don't think pronoun problems can be explained away by language barrier either.

Has Jeremy Irwin been convicted of, or even charged with Baby Lisa's disappearance? If so, I must have missed it.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I don't understand why people are being so rude to each other ,if they do not agree with a member's opinion or theory. Do we really need all of those head-knocking icons against someone else's opinion?

I am still catching up and was just thinking I am so glad I wasn't posting late last night! Those head bang smilies come off as rude enough, but the posts themselves were condescending at best and downright mean at worst.

JMO but people are allowed to have thoughts and theories that differ from yours. Please be nice.


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[Eileen730]

I think that is sad. He could not go but he wanted to be a part of it. I do feel so sorry for this family. I just can't imagine. jmo

There is a REASON this man cant be with his children!
HE did something somewhere along the way to be separated from his family.

jmo


What is sad is a little girl is missing and it was on his watch...When we find out what happend maybe we will understand but till then im very suspicious of all concerned.

jmo

 

[Eileen730]

I don't know what to think about it really. Sergio said that she had a pink top on with an american flag across the front, then there's the tooth. But that "Thank God she is ok, hopefully not too long before she delivered home"? Makes me wonder.

Sounds to me like she was lost before??????????????

 

[DIRK SCHILLER]

Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
However, it is a valid question to ask just how the screen came to be detached and put out in the yard. Why was the window open and the curtains pushed to the side? WAS IT STAGED?

Yes. IMO

pretty interesting story:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/07/04/1057179154768.html

http://www.mako.org.au/eloiseworledge1.html

 

[FrayedKnot]

I've never felt so very torn at what has been publicly insinuated ..inferred.. and alluded to about a victims family in my entire life.. and it hasn't a damn thing to do with libel.. slander.. and certainly not about lawsuits.. it has to do with my feeling that this family are helpless victims and what they have been through in just this months time is a hell beyond which any family should ever have to live through..

I'm outta here.. peace

Respectfully, there is a very good chance that the parents are not victims, but are the perps. It would be irresponsible to not look at them.

I think LE has done an admirable job of keeping their cards close to their vests and while it is frustrating to those of us sleuthing, I really think they have good reasons for what they are doing.

And they have been very fair to SC and RC considering all of the inconsistencies and evasive answers.

As far as public opinion goes, well, the public is entitled to their opinions. I don't think the parents have helped their image much with their actions, but you know what? I wouldn't give a fig for WHAT the public thought of me and would be doing anything to get my child back! Poo on what the public thinks!

I think for the most part, WSers have been responsibly sleuthing the parents. Some posters do not like some theories, but that's just life!

As for what people might infer from reading someone's opinion or speculation, well, you can't control what other people think. Heh heh! JMO




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[Gardenlady]

Sounds to me like she was lost before??????????????

Eileen, I couldn't quote the post you were quoting above, but wanted to clarify for those who did not catch it last night:

Therre was NO comment about "thank god she has been returned home". None of the three or so comments in Spanish said that. What WAS said was, iirc, "my god, please let her be returned home soon".

Someone posted way back a VERY BAD translation tha was completely incorrect. I'd ask folks if they do NOT speak another language, please don't try to translate it. The original post got what was said completely wrong.

FWIW I speak Portuguese, some Spanish (languages are very close, especially written, so I feel confident I am translating correctly).

Not yelling at anyone, I just want to make sure bad info is not being taken and run with.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
However, it is a valid question to ask just how the screen came to be detached and put out in the yard. Why was the window open and the curtains pushed to the side? WAS IT STAGED?

Yes. IMO

pretty interesting story:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/07/04/1057179154768.html

http://www.mako.org.au/eloiseworledge1.html

Wowza!!!!!!! That is eerie! Thank you for those links.


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[ExpectingUnicorns]

Thank you to Anita Richman for her careful commentary.
Very much appreciated!

As to Rebecca answering the "any marks or scars" question, my thought is she was thinking of damage/disturbance in the house as a result of an abduction, and says "no," that just the window was involved.

My thought's based on experiential knowledge (seven years working with university level ESL students). Even the ones extremely proficient in English could make that sort of misinterpretation, if their first language was Espanol.

Still hoping hard for little Isabel...

Yes, this was my immediate and first thought also. Although born and raised in the US, my mom spoke only Hungarian until she started school. Even though she spoke perfect English, without any accent, there were many subtle errors she (and her siblings) would make just like the example you have provided. (Lol, because of this language nuance, I find myself being careful to use the word "floor" rather than "ground" when I'm inside a structure ~ and I don't even know how to speak Hungarian.)

I do believe a lot of the confusion and criticism of the 911 tapes could easily be due to ESL issues. :cow:

 

[Taminator]

Eileen, I couldn't quote the post you were quoting above, but wanted to clarify for those who did not catch it last night:

Therre was NO comment about "thank god she has been returned home". None of the three or so comments in Spanish said that. What WAS said was, iirc, "my god, please let her be returned home soon".

Someone posted way back a VERY BAD translation tha was completely incorrect. I'd ask folks if they do NOT speak another language, please don't try to translate it. The original post got what was said completely wrong.

FWIW I speak Portuguese, some Spanish (languages are very close, especially written, so I feel confident I am translating correctly).

Not yelling at anyone, I just want to make sure bad info is not being taken and run with.

BBM.

If one uses Babelfish or any of the online translators, it can seriously mess up the context of the message. I've been told this on many occasions by friends who speak fluent Spanish. I rarely use them unless I have one single word that I want to translate that I can't remember. I'm not fluent in Spanish, but I can read it pretty well and understand enough to get the jist of what is being said.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I have a question about SC hanging around at the vigil last night.

Was that a violation of the CPS voluntary agreement?

I mean if he isn't even allowed phone calls to the boys, how is standing across the street where he could be seen okay? Wouldn't there be a distance he has to stay away? Maybe he was outside of that distance so it's okay.

Does anyone know how these no contact things work in AZ? TIA




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[MyTinkieGirl]

Ii's funny that I end up having to think and re-think what my post should say or HOW it should be worded. To make sure I use the right "IMO", "COULD BE", "COULD HAVE", MAYBE, etc, in the correct amount, for fear of the dreaded "head wall bang" or getting into a discussion that gets misconstrued and morphs and APPEARS to have ME trying to tell someone what THEY did OR how THEY did it, when I was just using a "hypothetical" situation to get my point across of what I was trying to say in my initial post.
So, I just give up because it gets too much to try to explain.

Maybe it's me, and it could very well be, but I've never had this happen. I've NEVER been afraid to post, BUT, even NOW, I'm thinking maybe I should scrap THIS post, because it MIGHT come across wrong.

I understand that I should "put on the big girl panties"....but, it gets frushtrating to have to keep defending our posts, AND get the dreaded "THAT is how rumors get started"....even though the "I think" "maybe" "if" terms are used....OR any other term used to convey it's strictly an opinion.

OK...done...maybe some Kahlua in my morning coffee will help me feel better about posting and be more chill...I MAY try to put BOTH legs in the same hole in the "big girl panties", but at least it'll git er done!! LOL

 

[FrayedKnot]

Ii's funny that I end up having to think and re-think what my post should say or HOW it should be worded. To make sure I use the right "IMO", "COULD BE", "COULD HAVE", MAYBE, etc, in the correct amount, for fear of the dreaded "head wall bang" or getting into a discussion that gets misconstrued and morphs and APPEARS to have ME trying to tell someone what THEY did OR how THEY did it, when I was just using a "hypothetical" situation to get my point across of what I was trying to say in my initial post.
So, I just give up because it gets too much to try to explain.

Maybe it's me, and it could very well be, but I've never had this happen. I've NEVER been afraid to post, BUT, even NOW, I'm thinking maybe I should scrap THIS post, because it MIGHT come across wrong.

I understand that I should "put on the big girl panties"....but, it gets frushtrating to have to keep defending our posts, AND get the dreaded "THAT is how rumors get started"....even though the "I think" "maybe" "if" terms are used....OR any other term used to convey it's strictly an opinion.

OK...done...maybe some Kalua in my morning coffee will help me feel better about posting and be more chill...I MAY try to put BOTH legs in the same hole in the "big girl panties", but at least it'll git er done!! LOL

Lol, Tinkie! Can you pass that Kahlua? I'm still smarting from the backlash over the F&F I think has merit and my big girl panties are in the wash!


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[Lava]

Ii's funny that I end up having to think and re-think what my post should say or HOW it should be worded. To make sure I use the right "IMO", "COULD BE", "COULD HAVE", MAYBE, etc, in the correct amount, for fear of the dreaded "head wall bang" or getting into a discussion that gets misconstrued and morphs and APPEARS to have ME trying to tell someone what THEY did OR how THEY did it, when I was just using a "hypothetical" situation to get my point across of what I was trying to say in my initial post.
So, I just give up because it gets too much to try to explain.

Maybe it's me, and it could very well be, but I've never had this happen. I've NEVER been afraid to post, BUT, even NOW, I'm thinking maybe I should scrap THIS post, because it MIGHT come across wrong.

I understand that I should "put on the big girl panties"....but, it gets frushtrating to have to keep defending our posts, AND get the dreaded "THAT is how rumors get started"....even though the "I think" "maybe" "if" terms are used....OR any other term used to convey it's strictly an opinion.

OK...done...maybe some Kahlua in my morning coffee will help me feel better about posting and be more chill...I MAY try to put BOTH legs in the same hole in the "big girl panties", but at least it'll git er done!! LOL

I agree...also, I see a lot of posts that could be condescending towards the "a parent is guilty" theory posts, but none towards the "the parents are innocent" theory posts. I wish we could just leave those posts out of it completely.


Anyways,

From FrayedKnot

I have a question about SC hanging around at the vigil last night.

Was that a violation of the CPS voluntary agreement?

I mean if he isn't even allowed phone calls to the boys, how is standing across the street where he could be seen okay? Wouldn't there be a distance he has to stay away? Maybe he was outside of that distance so it's okay.

Does anyone know how these no contact things work in AZ? TIA

Did he stay behind the wall, or was he out and about (Anita mentioned walking by him, so I am curious). IMO - it is unfair for the son to have to see him peering over the wall like that. I understand he wanted to be there, but its almost like a tease to the son.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Did he stay behind the wall, or was he out and about (Anita mentioned walking by him, so I am curious). IMO - it is unfair for the son to have to see him peering over the wall like that. I understand he wanted to be there, but its almost like a tease to the son.

respectfully snipped by me....

That was kinda my thought when it was reported he was there, but at a distance. But now that it's been reported that it wasn't a NCO, but a voluntary agreement, does that also mean the limits are more relaxed? IDK.....seems odd.



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