AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #17

[azmary]

I suspect he has to stay behind the wall for some reason. But if it had anything to do with ff why allow the danger. I would have to respect le and cps reasoning for this at the moment. Since we don't know why this happened to SC. It is good to see all the support from the community. Now it would be nice to see these same people be allowed to go on massive searches.

 

[LisaB]

(snip)
The Balloon Boy hoax cost the state of Colorado in excess of $50,000 and sent Richard Heane to jail.

If Isabele Celis is not dead by the hands of someone in the family, then my money is on this being a hoax. A very, very expensive hoax, and if that turns out to be the case, I hope the state of Arizona can get their money back.

This may sound strange, but in the first few days after she was "abducted" I was thinking of the Balloon Boy incident. I have followed a few other cases, but all were either babies or teens, except Kyron Horman, and it was obvious early on (to me) that he was killed by Terri Horman. This case just has a lot of similarities to the Heane's, and when the cost of the investigation was being reported, I wondered if LE was not trying to let the family know they were digging themselves a very deep hole.

 

[LisaB]

Unfortunately, I think you are exactly on target here. My heart hit bottom when SC was talking about the showers that night and he quoted Isa as saying “I don’t want to Daddy, I am tired” (all I heard was ‘not tonight dear, I have a headache’).

So sad.

""No Daddy, I'm tired"

 

[marazul]

I get what you are saying, but it would be pretty hard to determine what is suspicious and what is just your every day parent buying new clothes. But, the technology must exist...after all, stores can determine if you are pregnant based on what you buy.

MOO
If a "bad guy" was keeping her for the worst reasons, he probably would not give her more than a couple simple clothing items

If she was taken for another reason, to be hidden but still cared for, it could hae been planned in advance and the person could have bought clothing before her abduction

I buy in "wardrobe" style at every season change, and I do not take my girls with me to do so because that would mean coming out with the whole store. They try on and decide what needs to go back at home afterwards.

I also am a big fan of garage sales and resell some brand name children's clothes online and on consignment, there are tons of women and men alone at such events buying kids clothes

I think that is way too big of a task to even consider (the idea of red flagging clothing purchases for the same size as a missing child)

 

[txanmom]

In my experience, personal pronoun confusion is a common error made in both writing and speech in the American version of the English language by "native" speakers. Both personal pronoun inconsistency and vague pronoun reference is pervasive in the writing and speech I see. I see jumps from first person singular "I" to second person plural general humanity "you" to third person plural "we" in speech and writing everywhere. While it might be noticable to me, I don't think anyone is hiding anything sinister by showing a lack of attention to personal pronouns.

It's late, so I hope my own post is making sense.
JMO

Good morning everyone!! I am trying to get caught up, so I do apologize if this lands at a strange spot. I wanted to say I agree so much with this. My dad is Mexican (actually dad by marriage and then he adopted me). He cannot speak Spanish at all but he understands it. (His parents only spoke English in the home with him and his 8 sisters so they could assimilate easier in school). Well, he says "we" about everything. He and my mom divorced and for around 6 years he lived all alone and everytime we would talk I would ask about what he had been doing etc... and he would always say "well, we went to the movies, or we cleaned the garage". It was funny to me. I guess he was so used to being a we.

Anita Richman!! Thank you so much for going by the house and vigil. That was so helpful and I loved the pictures. The things you said about the family really humanized them for me. My heart really goes out to them.

Isa - I think about you all the time. You are always in my thoughts and prayers!!

 

[taagean]

Ii's funny that I end up having to think and re-think what my post should say or HOW it should be worded. To make sure I use the right "IMO", "COULD BE", "COULD HAVE", MAYBE, etc, in the correct amount, for fear of the dreaded "head wall bang" or getting into a discussion that gets misconstrued and morphs and APPEARS to have ME trying to tell someone what THEY did OR how THEY did it, when I was just using a "hypothetical" situation to get my point across of what I was trying to say in my initial post.
So, I just give up because it gets too much to try to explain.

Maybe it's me, and it could very well be, but I've never had this happen. I've NEVER been afraid to post, BUT, even NOW, I'm thinking maybe I should scrap THIS post, because it MIGHT come across wrong.

I understand that I should "put on the big girl panties"....but, it gets frushtrating to have to keep defending our posts, AND get the dreaded "THAT is how rumors get started"....even though the "I think" "maybe" "if" terms are used....OR any other term used to convey it's strictly an opinion.

OK...done...maybe some Kahlua in my morning coffee will help me feel better about posting and be more chill...I MAY try to put BOTH legs in the same hole in the "big girl panties", but at least it'll git er done!! LOL

I think I have deleted twice the number I have posted for the same reason!

 

[mamamia54]

Good day everyone, had to go to bed last night after that bit of chaos lol.

 

[LisaB]

I considered this early on and wondered why people would contribute to the search fund when the parents had not been cleared by LE. DH and I have made generous donations to various missing children's search funds and/or organizations like Texas Equusearch but only when we are sure that the family is in no way responsible for the family member's disappearance. In light of new information in the Celis' case regarding previous CPS involvement with the family and SC not allowed to see his sons, I wonder if folks will continue to contribute to the TMC account in the family's name. I wouldn't. :moo:

I always wondered why there were collections for a search, but there was never a search, aside from those conducted (and funded) by LE.

 

[liz b.]

respectfully snipped by me....

That was kinda my thought when it was reported he was there, but at a distance. But now that it's been reported that it wasn't a NCO, but a voluntary agreement, does that also mean the limits are more relaxed? IDK.....seems odd.



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It may not really be all that voluntary. JMO

 

[marazul]

Without linking the media, or assuming truth in the Spanish comments left there, could someone just write the phrase here and let me translate it exactly and add notes if it has any implied meaning or slang use in Spanish?

Translation tools do not work very well at ALL. I have had business ask me to look over documents they translated with those online tools and they are very, very bad. They are great for individual words, but not for sentences.

I would be glad to translate anything from English into Spanish or vice versa for anyone here, I translate for schools, I have translated for the Red Cross, I have no problem helping out, but I don't know where to find the link for these comments. If it helps clarify a rumor I would love to do it.

 

[jennapuppy]

I have been looking at these things for about five years. I am highly suspicious when pronouns are changed. Jeremy Irwin did the same thing.

When you are speaking for yourself, there should be an explanation of why "I" suddenly turns to "We". It didn't happen from experienced memory because, if it did, the person would explain how the other enters the scene. He doesn't. In my opinion, he is not speaking the truth about how that discovery occurred.

I don't think pronoun problems can be explained away by language barrier either.

Actually, in my work with ELL (English Language Learners) students, pronouns tend to be one of the hardest aspects of the English language for them to master. It might not be a language issue in Sergio's case, but it is possible.

 

[Eileen730]

respectfully snipped by me....

That was kinda my thought when it was reported he was there, but at a distance. But now that it's been reported that it wasn't a NCO, but a voluntary agreement, does that also mean the limits are more relaxed? IDK.....seems odd.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think it just means they didnt have to go before a judge!

 

[Prof]

Good morning everyone!! I am trying to get caught up, so I do apologize if this lands at a strange spot. I wanted to say I agree so much with this. My dad is Mexican (actually dad by marriage and then he adopted me). He cannot speak Spanish at all but he understands it. (His parents only spoke English in the home with him and his 8 sisters so they could assimilate easier in school). Well, he says "we" about everything. He and my mom divorced and for around 6 years he lived all alone and everytime we would talk I would ask about what he had been doing etc... and he would always say "well, we went to the movies, or we cleaned the garage". It was funny to me. I guess he was so used to being a we.

Anita Richman!! Thank you so much for going by the house and vigil. That was so helpful and I loved the pictures. The things you said about the family really humanized them for me. My heart really goes out to them.

Isa - I think about you all the time. You are always in my thoughts and prayers!!

Yes, so many people do use "we" and "you" and "I" and "their" all in the same sentence. And I see so many people speak of themselves as a "we" even when their significant others are not with them.

I should have said "native to the English language speakers" in my post, though, as that is what I was trying to state.

I think SC may well be native to the English language... my point is that it is a common error in English usage...lol

I do still think SC sounded odd on that call, but I don't think that his use of "we" when he spoke of waking up as a we implicated RC being there with him in any way.

 

[Madeleine74]

WS is part of the public in following cases. A segment that is discussing it on a forum for such discussions, but unless I'm mistaken, no one here is a member of the Celis investigation team (TPD, CPS, or FBI).

As such, everything said is either repeating what has been published or said elsewhere in MSM OR is speculation based on whatever inspires speculation and theories.

The public makes conclusions which may or may not be accurate. We make conclusions which may or may not be accurate.

In the end, cases get solved and litigated by the people who are working the case, inside the investigative agencies. Not by the public's favorite game of guesswork.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Just catching up on overnight posts. In the meantime, I started looking at southwestern-style house plans yesterday when the Celis' home floorplan was a hot topic. I found several websites that featured dozens of homes that resemble the Celis' residence. We might not find the exact layout, but there are enough options on various sites that we might find one that closely replicates the Celis' home.

Here's one source:

http://www.architecturaldesigns.com/southwest-home-plans.asp

I woke up with a sore throat this morning and hope that I'm not getting a spring cold

 

[jennapuppy]

This may sound strange, but in the first few days after she was "abducted" I was thinking of the Balloon Boy incident. I have followed a few other cases, but all were either babies or teens, except Kyron Horman, and it was obvious early on (to me) that he was killed by Terri Horman. This case just has a lot of similarities to the Heane's, and when the cost of the investigation was being reported, I wondered if LE was not trying to let the family know they were digging themselves a very deep hole.

I initially had that feeling, as well. However, it seems that whenever a hoax is involved, they tend to fall apart rather quickly. If this really is some kind of hoax, whoever perpetrated it is truly a master of deception.

 

[makayla]

""No Daddy, I'm tired"

I may be wrong, so someone please correct me if I am, but I thought the statement from Isabel to her Dad "No Daddy, I'm tired" was when he asked her if she wanted something to eat, not whether she wanted a shower. It all gets mixed up together trying to rewatch interviews and listen to 911 recordings. All I know for sure is that Isabel is out there somewhere . . . I hope she is found soon because it's already been way too long.

 

[marazul]

Found them. These are spanish comments as they were written and the translation is below. These are just people's comments regarding a picture of Isa with a unidentified family member prior to her abduction, but since there was such a confusion due to mistranslation, here is the correct translation. It is not to assume these comments mean anything important, it is simply a translation of a phrase that caused unnecessary false alarm.

1.hemosas...!!!! Dios mio que este pronto de regreso en casita...!!!

Beautifuls! (as in more than one beautiful thing or person) !!! My god, that (as in {may she be', see below) she is soon on her way back to being home...!!!
That is a DIRECT TRANSLATION OF THE WORDS. The MEANING of those words is different in Spanish, because the "QUE" is used as a hopeful declarative "That" not a definitive "That", as in "Que Viva Mexico!" Is used to express a hope that Mexico has a long healthy life, not declaring that Mexico is alive. "Que regresa" is a hope that someone or something returns. "Dios Mio que este pronto de regreso en casita" in proper english would mean "My god, may she soon be on her way back home!"

2."Por favor si saben algo avisan!"
Please, if they (or collective universal you) know something, report it! That is the DIRECT TRANSLATION. The translation in to correct english usage would be "Please, if anybody knows anything, report it!"

3."si hermosas mis ninas Diios nos ayude para encontrar a Isabelita rueguen por ello"
Direct Translation - "yes, beautifuls my girls. (in correct English, yes, my girls are beautiful!) God help us to find Isabel Everybody pray for *ello* (ello could be a mistype of ella which means HER or could be a rare usage of IT, IT meaning her return)

 

[txanmom]

Just catching up on overnight posts. In the meantime, I started looking at southwestern-style house plans yesterday when the Celis' home floorplan was a hot topic. I found several websites that featured dozens of homes that resemble the Celis' residence. We might not find the exact layout, but there are enough options on various sites that we might find one that closely replicates the Celis' home.

Here's one source:

http://www.architecturaldesigns.com/southwest-home-plans.asp

I woke up with a sore throat this morning and hope that I'm not getting a spring cold

This is helpful. There is one that looks like the rudimentary plan we saw on TV, but it is flipped.

Does anyone know their home builder? We might be able to go to the builder's website and look at the elevations. I did this a great deal last summer when we were selling our house and looking for a new one.

 

[Prof]

Actually, in my work with ELL (English Language Learners) students, pronouns tend to be one of the hardest aspects of the English language for them to master. It might not be a language issue in Sergio's case, but it is possible.

When I studied Spanish back in school, pronouns were difficult for me, having to add formal and informal to first, second, and third person.

It's possible that SC 's parents spoke one language, while he had to speak another at school. IDK I don't know the history of bilingual education in AZ.