AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #19

[azmary]

Sandy-haired Etan vanished while walking alone to his bus stop for the first time, two blocks from his home in New York's busy SoHo neighborhood, which was a working-class part of the city back then but is now a chic area of boutiques and galleries.

Etan's parents, Stan and Julie Patz, were reluctant to move or even change their phone number in case their son tried to reach out. They still live in the same apartment.
Just saying.......................
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...d=maing-grid7|main5|dl6|sec1_lnk3&pLid=164148

 

[Jules71]

ITA. from the 911:

911 Operator: "Why do you think she was abducted?
Sergio Celis: "I have no idea. We woke up this morning and went to go get her up, start her baseball game, and she's gone. I woke up my sons, I, we looked everywhere in the house, and my oldest son noticed that her window was wide open and the screen was laying in the backyard. We've looked all around the house."

from last night, bbm:
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...cle_91fee6b2-df37-5c40-bc2a-20e15fe69299.html

"One officer reported that a resident on East 13th Street said she heard a "dog going crazy barking" at a house on East Cooper Street at about 2 a.m. April 21.
She also reported that around 8 a.m., she encountered one of Isabel's brothers walking toward an LA Fitness on Wilmot Road. She said the boy told her that he was looking for his missing sister and that he was crying."

the distance between the house and l.a. fitness is 1.13 miles...but by foot, all you do is cross the mall parking lot.
how the heck did sergio wake up the kids at 8am and at the same time or minutes later the older one walked a mile away?

i'm not sleuthing a minor. just trying to put together some sense of a timeline which is proving futile. :banghead: (my head, my wall, my frustration, not intended for any other poster).

I think that is a great point and observation about the brother being 1.13 miles away about 8 am looking for Isa - and that was also the time they woke up and found Isa missing and that same son found the window open and screen off.

Speaking of prints : when the teenage kid and his father were seen entering the Celis' house on the news video report, a poster noted how the teenager grabbed the door handle/latch. How he got his prints all over the door handle. It seemed strange, because he went ahead of his father.Normally in a situation like that one would expect the adult present to go first...

This was the teenage boy who lives down the block.It was reported that LE questioned him closely. The look on his face on the news video gave me the creeps.... JMO

Can someone provide this link again - I thought I kept my browser open with it while I was catching up with the thread and now I can't find it again. Doh!

This is what has us all going in circles. I read this morning that the blood was not in IC's room. I read it here on WS. wow, such confusion. jmo

I think there are at least two reports - supposed blood on the middle bedroom floor and also in another or other home.

 

[prima.facie]

...just as i thought...
i come on and zillions of posts to catch up on....at least we are not on thread #20 yet...i may have pulled some hair on that :floorlaugh:

and welp...I still remain on the fence staggering about in any direction with each post I read in regards to WTF happened that night...even w/ what "new" has been released...

everything about this case is just............strange.

 

[AZYaYa]

I did find the LE report on a bomb shelter very odd ... but after looking around on the Assessor site in the last few weeks, I did note houses built in the 50s...

Yes, it's very much a 50's neighborhood.

 

[Patty G]

Yeah, but IMO the "electrical box" they are reporting on the south east side is the box that Anita had photographed when she was there.
Last night she posted a Google map showing the location on the south east corner

here
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AZ AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #19

I totally agree with you.

I just posted how some of the media is referring to it as the "electrical box" and some of the media is referring to it as the "utility box". They are just using different words to describe the box.

And then made note that there is reference to a "gas meter", of which, is not the "electrical or utility" box.

ETA: All the reports reference the "electrical box and utility box" are behind the house in one form or another.

 

[time]

Re: footprints

While googling wolverine workboots, I was reminded very much of baseball cleats. I've seen both little league and professional coaches wearing cleats.

They do look similar from the side, but my guess is that they could rule out cleats fairly easily based on how the print actually looks???

Unfortunately, Wolverine workboots could be quite common? If that is so, I hope the prints are good enough to identify the individual characteristics (peculiar wear patterns, etc.).

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Re: footprints

While googling wolverine workboots, I was reminded very much of baseball cleats. I've seen both little league and professional coaches wearing cleats.

Im lost. What does Wolverrine workboots have to do with those who wear shoes with cleats?

LE would know instantly if it was a cleated type shoe because of the sole design and impression it would make.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

They do look similar from the side, but my guess is that they could rule out cleats fairly easily based on how the print actually looks???

Unfortunately, Wolverine workboots could be quite common? If that is so, I hope the prints are good enough to identify the individual characteristics (peculiar wear patterns, etc.).

My hubby has several pairs of Wolverine workboots and he loves his.

There are different styles of workboots so I wonder if LE has tried to track down which Woverine boot it matches?

IMO

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Nancy Grace will cover new developments in the Isabel Celis disappearance on HLN (8:00 EDT) this evening. Sounds like show is being taped now with live phone calls from viewers.

 

[Lava]

Im lost. What does Wolverrine workboots have to do with those who wear shoes with cleats?

LE would know instantly if it was a cleated type shoe because of the sole design and impression it would make.

imo

We have to remember that these are reports by officers at the scene, not necessarily investigators. What was written was that they appear to be wolverine brand boots, or a similar type of shoe. If someone isn't thinking about cleats, they could very well write down work boots. We have no idea what was ruled out or not.

 

[marazul]

We have to remember that these are reports by officers at the scene, not necessarily investigators. What was written was that they appear to be wolverine brand boots, or a similar type of shoe. If someone isn't thinking about cleats, they could very well write down work boots. We have no idea what was ruled out or not.

Does considering they could be cleats lead you to suspect another coach or teammate? I ask because IMO if they were cleat prints, and belonged to the Celis dad or boys, I don't think they would be connected to the case. A boy jumping his own fence after a loose ball, maybe. A dad standing on his own utility box the night he murdered his daughter where he could be easily recognized? IMO highly unlikely.

 

[Lava]

Does considering they could be cleats lead you to suspect another coach or teammate? I ask because IMO if they were cleat prints, and belonged to the Celis dad or boys, I don't think they would be connected to the case. A boy jumping his own fence after a loose ball, maybe. A dad standing on his own utility box the night he murdered his daughter where he could be easily recognized? IMO highly unlikely.

They could belong to ANYONE. However, at the time the reports were made I doubt they knew who they belonged to, so they are considered evidence until ruled out. If they were cleats, and they were from the family, I doubt they were from that night. From experience, we were always told to take off our cleats before coming inside, those things get DIRTY.

 

[time]

We have to remember that these are reports by officers at the scene, not necessarily investigators. What was written was that they appear to be wolverine brand boots, or a similar type of shoe. If someone isn't thinking about cleats, they could very well write down work boots. We have no idea what was ruled out or not.

Good point. What's frustrating about getting all the info is that there are no forensics given, right? I still don't think cleats shoe prints would look like work boots ... take a look

shoe prints from cleats - Google Search

 

[WhatsupAZ]

Nancy Grace will cover new developments in the Isabel Celis disappearance on HLN (8:00 EDT) this evening. Sounds like show is being taped now with live phone calls from viewers.

Any betting people want to wager on what her bombshell will be?

"Bombshell tonight: possible blood found on shower curtain"
or
"Bombshell tonight: police search bomb shelter near little Isa's home"
or
"Bombshell tonight: sensationalize, sensatioalize, blah blah, my twins, blah"

 

[mamamia54]

It could be called a fruit cellar for some possibly older folks? I just find it odd that there are still homes on Isa's street where people haven't been able to be contacted, then now we read that LE has been looking inside bomb shelters.

If this is so, then I can understand why the neighbor thought she heard male voices that night, both Isa's window and that electrical box are near the breezeway and the sound would kinda tunnel down that way. MOO

 

[Zoe Zo]

This may have been answered already and I missed it. Is this normal for all these doc's to be released on a case or is there a reason LE are releasing them?? Sorry, I'm new at this so not sure how it works.

 

[Lava]

Good point. What's frustrating about getting all the info is that there are no forensics given, right? I still don't think cleats shoe prints would look like work boots ... take a look

shoe prints from cleats - Google Search

Yes, but like there are so many designs of work boots, there are also for baseball cleats.

I could see someone who isn't familiar with sports automatically mistaking them to be work boots, especially outside the baseball environment. This isn't what I am saying DEFINITELY happened, by the way, just possibility.

 

[cluciano63]

Okay, to me many things in the documents point to an abduction...but what is being left out for now must, IMO points to the reason(s) LE cannot rule out the parents' involvement even after all this time. I believe there is incriminating evidence we are not going to see for a while.

I also believe this was released to show how much work LE has been doing and how they have taken every tip, no matter how "out there" seriously.

 

[time]

Yes, but like there are so many designs of work boots, there are also for baseball cleats.

I could see someone who isn't familiar with sports automatically mistaking them to be work boots, especially outside the baseball environment. This isn't what I am saying DEFINITELY happened, by the way, just possibility.

I don't know, I have found that most police officers initially looking at a scene are fairly knowledgeable and would not be as specific as to say a Wolverine work boot if it was something like cleats. To me, that says, they have an informed opinion. But then again as ocean pointed out there are a lot of different Wolverine work boots and therefore sole patterns

 

[GutFeeling!]

Definitely! An ex of mine did this.

Can you remember photos on POF of these types of boots? Or maybe FB ... gonna go search