AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #19

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liz b. said:
Sorry to jump off your post...I had written "cleaned up " instead of covering up...so I stand corrected..TY

Just wondering though...what did LE mean by 'covering up " ? As opposed to "cleaning up " ? What's the difference,I wonder ?
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I was just thinking about that same question. The way LE phrased it seems odd to me. I think covering up may have been that they never left evidence in the first place and/or that they picked up anything obviously incriminating and took with? Cleaning up is generally washing things off, wiping prints, moving objects, stuff like that? And then there is crime scene staging to make it look like something it wasn't. This could pertain to the window screen but now I'm wondering if we took it too seriously and turned into into it wasn't the point of entry. I think LE was just being careful and saying they don't know for sure.
 
Right, Time, I know Pacheco never said "covering up" ...
 
I see they added the K-9 hits

snipped from article

"In another report, an officer details how a set of footprints was discovered on top of a small electrical box at the rear southeast corner of the Celis home. The footprints appeared to be from a "Wolverine brand work boot or similar type shoe."
Three matching boot prints were discovered in the soft sand or dirt about 5 feet south of the electrical box. Crime scene units processed the prints.

K-9 units also discovered possible matching prints on top of a gas meter on the west side of the house."

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...cle_b5e5f172-a612-11e1-84ee-001a4bcf887a.html
 
Surely LE has gone through all of the evidence listed in these documents and so the fact that after more than a month, they still can't rule out the parents is troubling to me. They seem to have some reason to believe that one of both could be involved if not the actual perp. Just reading the evidence we have seen it would look like a pretty straight-forward stranger abduction, yet apparently LE does not think it is. JMO
 
Refresh, post, refresh, thanks.. a lot of work lol
 
makayla said:
The Celis family live in a decent sized home - in AZ, our property values have taken a HUGE dive - they purchased at the top of the market and now their home is worth a lot less - this may or may not affect their finances - if their income has remained stable and they are able to continue to pay their mortgage, they may not have financial difficulties, but if there has been any change to their income, they are underwater in their mortgage, which would present a problem, so we don't know if they are now living beyond their means or not. Obviously LE knows all the details by now and have taken this into consideration during their investigation.

My point is many people are now living beyond their means due to our current economy - homes values have drastically decreased in certain areas, some people have taken pay cuts, 401Ks have been devalued and yet the overall cost of living has risen. There are many more foreclosures and bankruptcies, and those greatly affected are the unlucky ones who purchased at the top of the market. JMO
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I agree that it is possible for someone to be deeply in debt and not APPEAR to be living beyond their means. In Arizona the housing market crash has been so severe that a homeowner may have a huge mortgage debt and appear to have very little to show for it.

I also agree that LE would have looked at this in the beginning of this case. LE even called attention to the fact that they were looking at the Celis financial records on May 15 in a local news report (that was mentioned on this blog at that time).

For the people who don't feel that there were financial difficulties... have you gone to the link that was provided for the Pima County Recorder and looked at the history? This is a public record site and is much less invasive than sleuthing DUIs, drug arrests, or warrants served.

The Recorder shows:

There were 3 foreclosure actions, continuing from late 2008 until mid 2011.

Two were two simultaneous foreclosure actions (on both houses) starting the same month (Dec 2008).

In May 2011 their previous home went back to the bank due to foreclosure.

In June 2011 their current home was saved from foreclosure for the second time.

The 2 mortgages that were the subject of the foreclosures both originated in 2006. There were 2 other mortgages originated at the same time (maybe seconds on each of the houses).

There was a Lien recorded in 2006 (probably HOA for previous house)

All I'm saying is, IMO we don't have to guess whether there were financial problems. It's all listed there at the Recorders Office and this doesn't include possible credit card debt or personal loans.

I am not implying anything negative about the Celis family debt. This scenario has become much too common since the housing crash. I sympathize with their situation. It looks exactly like the downward spiral that was described above.

But I don't understand why people would say that there wasn't really a problem. They saved their current home a year ago (maybe by borrowing privately from someone). But that was only a month after losing the previous home to foreclosure. Normally their ability to borrow from a bank after a previous foreclosure would now be much more limited.

This is my opinion only. Go to the Recorder link and see what you think. A Trustee Deed is when the property actually reverts to the bank.

I provided a Trulia link showing the previous home's foreclosure a couple of days ago. I can pull that link and the explanation up again if anyone wants to see it.

Pima County Recorder link for Celis family records:

http://www.recorder.pima.gov/public...e=5/25/2012&l=CELIS&f=SERGIO&o=Sequence&v=DOC
 
:waiting: Where are the docs? I realize that there's a time difference, but for those of us on Eastern time, the "afternoon" is quickly fading away :(
 
cluciano63 said:
Surely LE has gone through all of the evidence listed in these documents and so the fact that after more than a month, they still can't rule out the parents is troubling to me. They seem to have some reason to believe that one of both could be involved if not the actual perp. Just reading the evidence we have seen it would look like a pretty straight-forward stranger abduction, yet apparently LE does not think it is. JMO
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Clu, what do you think about the possibility that they simply don't want to state either way what they have ruled out and what they have ruled in on this case? Could they have an inkling either way, but don't think it prudent to state that publically at this time? Could they also have no inkling either way?

IDK but the way LE has not let out what they have interpreted of evidence at all really... I would not think that no statement at all necessarily is an indication of who they think is involved?
 
BetteDavisEyes said:
:waiting: Where are the docs? I realize that there's a time difference, but for those of us on Eastern time, the "afternoon" is quickly fading away :(
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Just keep refreshing every 15 seconds lol have a wonderful weekend mate xoxoxo
 
Prof said:
I see they added the K-9 hits

snipped from article

"In another report, an officer details how a set of footprints was discovered on top of a small electrical box at the rear southeast corner of the Celis home. The footprints appeared to be from a "Wolverine brand work boot or similar type shoe."
Three matching boot prints were discovered in the soft sand or dirt about 5 feet south of the electrical box. Crime scene units processed the prints.

K-9 units also discovered possible matching prints on top of a gas meter on the west side of the house."

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...cle_b5e5f172-a612-11e1-84ee-001a4bcf887a.html
Click to expand...

5ft south would be across the street? Behind the Celis home.
 
spoiledmom said:
I don't know if anyone has posted this link already.
http://ktar.com/6/1546969/Details-of-search-for-Isabel-Celis-
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From your link
Records show a neighbor reported hearing a "dog going crazy barking" around 2 a.m. the morning Isabel was reported missing, and around 8 a.m. saw one of Isabel's brothers walking down the street. The boy was crying and said he was looking for his sister.



ABC News said blood was found on the floor and that there was no mention of a ransom note in the documents.
The police documents stated that detectives spoke to a witness who claimed that a man who was staying with the family owed money to someone, suggesting a possible motive.



"People start to sort of guess or project what may have happened to this child," said Brad Garrett, a former special agent for the FBI.
"Finding blood in the house, in and of itself, is fairly common. Where it is, how much of it, do the two really match," is more telling, he said.
Click to expand...
 
cluciano63 said:
Surely LE has gone through all of the evidence listed in these documents and so the fact that after more than a month, they still can't rule out the parents is troubling to me. They seem to have some reason to believe that one of both could be involved if not the actual perp. Just reading the evidence we have seen it would look like a pretty straight-forward stranger abduction, yet apparently LE does not think it is. JMO
Click to expand...

I have always said it is like other cases where the parents werent ruled out before a suspect was caught.

The Celis family like other families have no way to verify their alibis because no one saw the four of them while they were inside the home.

IMO
 
Kat77 yes from early in the threads we have seen that they have had financial issues ...these are in civil court docs, too...

I am not sure what sparked your post, but yes we have seen the records. IMO they seem to have good credit, as the banks are well known banks, and they do have their cars, and they were not foreclosed on...
 
What I was told by the source working on the case, is what was stated in the video about the family member owing money to someone. IMO Sergio is connected to this. The people that they were saying the family member owed money to, they believe was the cartel. This was how the whole idea got into my head.
 
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