AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #20

[DIRK SCHILLER]

I have 2 questions, anyone can help me please?
1)did the police check whether the screen at the window has been moved from the inside to the outside of the house?
2)if you're going to wake up
your daughter
and do not find her what
's the first thing you would do
I´d like to know everyone´s opinion please

 

[Patty G]

I thought i read somewhere that the vehicle has not been moved in a long time
It just sits there.

IMO, there was a lot of "assumptions" that the red car never moved based on street views of the house from various site.

When I look at my house, it looks like I never move my car either.

My concern was the statement by NG indicating the car was "inoperable" and would love to know how that determination was made. :crazy:

I am a "fact" type person, so when someone says something, I expect them to back it up with something to prove it!

ETA: Found the info about the vehicle indicating the car was not working. Mystery solved.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/26/ng.01.html

 

[Patty G]

Way back at the beginning Lt. Pacheco was on NG and stated the vehicle was inoperable.

I guess I better go back and find that transcript from the show, unless you remember which show (date) he was on. TIA

I so want to clear up the facts regarding the vehicle.

ETA: Found the info about the vehicle indicating the car was not working. Mystery solved.


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/26/ng.01.html

 

[iSleuth]

A lot to absorb in these documents. Thank you to everyone posting stuff.
I (personally )am as confused as ever but with that said I have a few thoughts:


I find it very troubling about first- obvious and immediate observations by detectives of the victim's bedroom ( pillow footboard gaming chair around bed???) AND the K9 hits and analysis hits in the house-in the garage( !!!!!! ) between the cars? and the trunk? and the vacuum cleaner????::thud: and lumenol reactions( either way + or -) I wonder if what is blacked it is evidence of cleaning agents.

My antennae has always been up on the cars. I am not surprised. But,

**What does everyone make of RSR and this blackberry business- screen shots of his phone texts etc etc???through window etc etc??? ( truck knife??)

And in no way to sleuth minors... "My son has ____" must be like ADD or ADHD. ( one of mine does too btw) IMHO Becky does toss that in -in an odd place in her conversation with the officer. justsayin'

Also, I keep thinking the footprints around electrical boxes had to do with finding and disabling the video cams. Both, possibly were checked at first "they" tried to find a way to disconnect it but then realized they didn't know which box and wire was which (- because it was dark - and because the dogs were freaking out) so they climbed up onto the roof and aimed the camera to the sky instead- quicker solution)

Sorry about being all over the place...I think we need Dexter.

 

[carole]

I guess I better go back and find that transcript from the show, unless you remember which show (date) he was on. TIA

I so want to clear up the facts regarding the vehicle.

I think it was during the first week, but I'm not certain.

 

[TxLady2]

Couple things I noticed and I'm sure others probably did too: Dad first said he noticed the screen missing right after he checked on the boys and went back into Isa's room. Then they said the boy found the screen outside after looking outside. Which is it?

Also, the 'Uncle' or whatever the heck he is, has the address listed on E. Broadway, which to me looks very close to the family's house. He could have easily been there early, come back at noon, or been back and forth etc. in a short amount of time. Was his apt searched?

Could be both. Dad noticed from inside that the screen was not on the window, then the brother found the screen laying on the ground when he was outside.
But I thought Dad told them in the 911 call that his son was the one who discovered the screen missing. Maybe he meant the son found the missing screen. The wording changes the meaning sometimes.

 

[TxLady2]

Did they mean crushed? Crushed makes more sense than crunched.
I can't locate the post but I can locate the doc where it is stated-I was just reading it. It is in PDF2, page 69. It also says the screen was "to the side of the window on the floor outside". I've never heard the ground referred to as a floor. :waitasec:

Me, neither. But I have heard people refer to the floor as the ground, as in saying they fell to the ground when they were in a house.
Ya never know.

 

[~n/t~]

They sure are upsetting, Pensfan.

Constructing a precise timeline is crucial in a missing person's case. I would think that the mother would pinpoint the time she left for work. In today's digital world, this is simple to do.

I think about the Scott Peterson case. Remember Scott's next-door neighbor, Karen S, who found the Peterson's dog Mackenzie running loose?

Karen pinpointed the time she found Mackenzie to 10:18 a.m. by backtracking her movements that morning, and then reinforcing her testimony with bank and retail receipts. And this was just a neighbor, endeavoring to get her timeline exact.

So sad for Isa that her own parents will not do the same. :frown:

The hospital would be able to confirm what time she got to work, would they not and then be back tracked from there depending on how long it takes her to get to work? If she was at work at 7 for example, and it takes her 30 minutes to get there, then she would've left the home at 6:30 and so on. So if she claims she left at 7:30, she would've been at work at 8.

In the 911 call, she says she left at 7 but I think that was just an estimate and not thinking straight. Sergio said his wife had just left for work which leads me to believe 7:30 would've been the time she left. Sergio then goes to Isa's room at 8 and doesn't find her there and calls his wife.

Personally, I don't think it makes a difference because Isa was already gone by then and I believe the neighbour who heard the voices outside and the barking dogs.

 

[carole]

I have 2 questions, anyone can help me please?
1)did the police check whether the screen at the window has been moved from the inside to the outside of the house?
2)if you're going to wake up
your daughter
and do not find her what
's the first thing you would do
I´d like to know everyone´s opinion please[/QUOTE]

BBM

I'm pretty sure the first thing I'd do is look around her room and I am sure I would notice an open window with the screen missing and curtains pulled to one side.

Then I would leave her room and call her name, checking all the other rooms/bathrooms.

 

[Patty G]

This is what I found about the red car per Nancy's Show

GRACE: Do they always have that red car parked in their driveway?

STARDEVANT: Yes. Yes. They do.

GRACE: Does it work, or is it just sitting there?

STARDEVANT: It`s just sitting there. Yes, it`s been sitting there, I`m pretty sure, since I moved in about eight months ago.

PACHECO: And since you already know that that vehicle is not operable, but that`s part of what was included in the overall search warrant. And also to clear up a couple of things. Everything that we`ve done in terms of search of the -- of the home has been done with a search warrant and according to the law.


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/26/ng.01.html


Now I have an answer to my lingering thoughts about the car not operable.

Phew, now I can free up some brain cells. :crazy:

 

[~n/t~]

Oops! :blushing: I have to admit my error using "scrunched" instead of
"crunched". I was eating dinner, recording Jane, posting, reading posts, and starting a thread in the Missing Forum. I was on over load ....

Although using the word my brain selected "Scrunched" actually makes more sense to me:
1. To crush or crunch.
2. To crumple or squeeze

No worries.

The word crunch sounds more like in chewing crunch. Never heard of a crunched screen. Crushed, scrunched makes more sense, :moo:

 

[Eileen730]

IMO, there was a lot of "assumptions" that the red car never moved based on street views of the house from various site.

When I look at my house, it looks like I never move my car either.

My concern was the statement by NG indicating the car was "inoperable" and would love to know how that determination was made. :crazy:

I am a "fact" type person, so when someone says something, I expect them to back it up with something to prove it!

I understand but i believe i read a neighbor said the car sits there and never moves.

 

[Eileen730]

The hospital would be able to confirm what time she got to work, would they not and then be back tracked from there depending on how long it takes her to get to work? If she was at work at 7 for example, and it takes her 30 minutes to get there, then she would've left the home at 6:30 and so on. So if she claims she left at 7:30, she would've been at work at 8.

In the 911 call, she says she left at 7 but I think that was just an estimate and not thinking straight. Sergio said his wife had just left for work which leads me to believe 7:30 would've been the time she left. Sergio then goes to Isa's room at 8 and doesn't find her there and calls his wife.

Personally, I don't think it makes a difference because Isa was already gone by then and I believe the neighbour who heard the voices outside and the barking dogs.

LE has information ppl heard dogs barking at 2 am....
RC and SC on the police doc said she left at 7 30
actually the time changes a bit .

 

[TxLady2]

I have 2 questions, anyone can help me please?
1)did the police check whether the screen at the window has been moved from the inside to the outside of the house?
2)if you're going to wake up
your daughter
and do not find her what
's the first thing you would do
I´d like to know everyone´s opinion please

Screens are normally on the outside of windows, not inside.

As to your last question, nobody knows what they would do the first thing, until it happens. Sometimes our reactions to things are totally different than what we expect them to be.

 

[txanmom]

Does anyone know the meaning of "apparent" blood stains on her bedroom floor? Is it apparent to the naked eye, or apparent with luminol testing? TIA

 

[iSleuth]

I have 2 questions, anyone can help me please?
1)did the police check whether the screen at the window has been moved from the inside to the outside of the house?
2)if you're going to wake up
your daughter
and do not find her what
's the first thing you would do
I´d like to know everyone´s opinion please[/QUOTE]

BBM

I'm pretty sure the first thing I'd do is look around her room and I am sure I would notice an open window with the screen missing and curtains pulled to one side.

Then I would leave her room and call her name, checking all the other rooms/bathrooms.

Thank you!

I would be first calling " herNAME" then screaming her name !!! I said this a long time ago. If god forbid my kid was missing- before I ever called 911 to report it- the whole neighborhood would have already called in to report a crazyPerson or #aWomanOnTheVergeOfAnervousBreakDown on the street!

 

[~n/t~]

I have 2 questions, anyone can help me please?
1)did the police check whether the screen at the window has been moved from the inside to the outside of the house?
2)if you're going to wake up
your daughter
and do not find her what
's the first thing you would do
I´d like to know everyone´s opinion please

It all depends. If I had put my child to bed the night before and knew I had closed the window and drawn the curtains and suddenly the next day notice my daughter isn't there and look up to see the window open and the curtains to one side, I would immediately think someone took her.

If I had not tucked her in and saw the curtains drawn open then I would assume she was in the bathroom or watching tv and start looking around the house calling her name.

It appears Sergio didn't notice the window but Isa's brother did.

 

[~n/t~]

Does anyone know the meaning of "apparent" blood stains on her bedroom floor? Is it apparent to the naked eye, or apparent with luminol testing? TIA

I would guess apparent to the naked eye. It might not be blood stains as a layperson would but an experienced LEO would notice the blood and then have it confirmed with luminol testing. IMO

 

[carole]

Thank you!

I would be first calling " herNAME" then screaming her name !!! I said this a long time ago. If god forbid my kid was missing- before I ever called 911 to report it- the whole neighborhood would have already called in to report a crazyPerson or #aWomanOnTheVergeOfAnervousBreakDown on the street!

I guess I was thinking what I'd do at first when I just didn't find her in her room.

If I didn't find her inside the house or outside the house, then I'd be outside running up and down the street calling her name and calling 911 at the same time. I'm pretty sure, although you can't really know what you would do, I would NOT be calm.

Espeically at 8am on a Saturday morning when she should have been asleep in her room or at least somewhere in the house.

 

[~n/t~]

LE has information ppl heard dogs barking at 2 am....
RC and SC on the police doc said she left at 7 30
actually the time changes a bit .

So we have ppl hearing dogs at 2 am and then another neighbour hearing dogs barking like crazy at 6:30 am.

hmmmmmmm