AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #22

[joedotnet]

ocean, a non related question but i have to ask...what are your thoughts on jon benet ramsey? A ramsey or intruder?

 

[white rabbit]

I think what was found in the cars is a red herring. If it had any evidence at all connected to Isa's kidnapping LE would have impounded the vehicles and they didnt.

IMO

they didn't need to impound the acura; it wasn't going anywhere. LE doesn't spend over a week tearing apart a car because it's a red herring...jmo...

i agree about the toyota. finding blood inside a car, to me, is cause for seizure. maybe, they found what they were looking for??? idk...

 

[Wendy101]

Yes they did impound his truck.

On one hand some have the Celis' being Ensteins and staging a masterful crime scene but yet they throw the evidence away in the inoperable car in the front of the house for LE to find? :waitasec:

We saw how quickly LE impounded Torres' red Jetta in Sierra's case.

Sorry.. Haven't read here for awhile... Who is RR

 

[liz b.]

thanks for the attatchment...i won't engage in a staging debate but...did anyone notice that there was not one, but two blood items? marked DJN3 and DJN4???

Great find...MOO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

ocean, a non related question but i have to ask...what are your thoughts on jon benet ramsey? A ramsey or intruder?

I really havent kept up with that case all that closely.

All I know is they said they found foreign male DNA in her panties, iirc, and her murder remains unsolved.

Has LE ever released all the evidence in that case?

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Sorry.. Haven't read here for awhile... Who is RR

I believe that is Becky's brother or half-brother. I am not sure Wendy, but Prof would be the better one to ask.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

they didn't need to impound the acura; it wasn't going anywhere. LE doesn't spend over a week tearing apart a car because it's a red herring...jmo...

i agree about the toyota. finding blood inside a car, to me, is cause for seizure. maybe, they found what they were looking for??? idk...

But the thing is WR I have never seen LE not impound the vehicle if there was evidence that pretained to a case inside of it.

Can you remember another case where they left the vehicle? I cant think of one case where that has happened.

Maybe you can.

I still think what was found in the cars had nothing to do with Isa's kidnapping, imo.

Thanks

 

[white rabbit]

But the thing is WR I have never seen LE not impound the vehicle if there was evidence that pretained to a case inside of it.

Can you remember another case where they left the vehicle? I cant think of one case where that has happened.

Maybe you can.

I still think what was found in the cars had nothing to do with Isa's kidnapping, imo.

Thanks

nope. i honestly can't. but i'm still a relative newbie so i don't have a wealth of information on past cases...:blushing:

but every case is different. that i know.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

As far as I know we aren't allowed to talk about sexual assault in regards to the family. But I believe it was along those lines, or physical abuse. Definitely not an accidental drowning coverup

Good for you,ITA... because I dont buy into accidental drowning coverups anyway or any accident for that matter and then a cover up to make it look like a crime.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

nope. i honestly can't. but i'm still a relative newbie so i don't have a wealth of information on past cases...:blushing:

but every case is different. that i know.

That is true.. they are different but in some ways they are very consistent when it comes to SOP for LE when impounding vehicles that they think holds evidence of a crime.

IMO

 

[spoiledmom]

:banghead:

MO is that if they have "close" friends, those friends would be around them more and more likely to follow their lead and requests, which appear to be no or limited media contact. Think if one of your closest friends was in RC's shoes and asked you to keep a low profile, wouldn't you comply, especially if you trusted in her innocence?

If my "close friends" were being made to look like they were guilty in their child's disappearance, in front of the world, I would have a hard time not defending them (if I believed that they were innocent). Even if it was against their wishes (unless it would benefit getting their child back in some way). I don't think I could stand back and do nothing while their names were being dragged through the mud. I would want LE and the public to stop waisting time and place their focus elsewhere. I think the only thing that would keep me quiet is if I had some doubts about their innocence. I would probably wait until all the evidence comes out before I spoke my opinion. Then again, I don't think I would be close with someone if I thought they were capable of something like this. :waitasec:

 

[spoiledmom]

Yes they did impound his truck.

On one hand some have the Celis' being Ensteins and staging a masterful crime scene but yet they throw the evidence away in the inoperable car in the front of the house for LE to find? :waitasec:

We saw how quickly LE impounded Torres' red Jetta in Sierra's case.

I agree with you there. That would be pretty stupid if they hid the evidence right there in their driveway. I found that to be a little too easy to be anything important.

 

[Lark2]

On one hand some have the Celis' being Ensteins and staging a masterful crime scene but yet they throw the evidence away in the inoperable car in the front of the house for LE to find? :waitasec:

Evidence found in the inoperable Acura in the driveway did not have to only come from that night. This could have been an going situation if it involved some sort of abuse.

Also, no-one here is alleging masterful staging; quite the opposite.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Lands at random because there are multiple posts re: clean-up of the Celis home.

Whether it was an intruder or family members, I doubt very much that anyone could thoroughly clean their house in the wee hours of the night even if every light in the house were turned on. I know that I couldn't nor would I even try to clean my house at night because our neighborhood is very dark and overhead lights/lamps produce shadows. I suppose that I could vacuum and dust, but I wouldn't try to wash hardwood floors or any other cleaning project that requires plenty of light and a modicum of shadows.

Someone who is attempting to clean up an accident or crime scene probably wouldn't have many lights on in the wee hours because it would raise suspicion in even casual passersby. It would be very easy to miss tiny spots of blood or some other substance without proper lighting. I'm guessing that's what LE meant when they commented that the clean-up had been "adequate". :moo:

 

[spoiledmom]

:waitasec:

A cover up of what, though?

They live there. Their prints belong there. Why would they need to cover them up?

They wouldn't need to, IMO.

Maybe it is a cover up of other people in the family that do not live in the Celis home. Could they be trying to protect another family member from becoming a suspect? Maybe they or one other person is ALSO involved and that is why LE isn't ruling out immediate or extended family? Obviously LE has some information to lead them to believe that extended family could also be involved in this. I don't see LE stating in every case that they aren't ruling out extended family. There has to be a reason for this. Don't ya think??

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

:waitasec:

Maybe it is a cover up of other people in the family that do not live in the Celis home. Could they be trying to protect another family member from becoming a suspect? Maybe they or one other person is ALSO involved and that is why LE isn't ruling out immediate or extended family? Obviously LE has some information to lead them to believe that extended family could also be involved in this. I don't see LE stating in every case that they aren't ruling out extended family. There has to be a reason for this. Don't ya think??

Good points, and we know that there is a lot of extended family who came and went from the home in the early days following Isa's appearance. There were women there cleaning and cooking, probably doing laundry, etc. Becky, especially, seems to have a lot of relatives who either live nearby or are within reasonable driving distance of the Celis home. :moo:

 

[liz b.]

Lands at random because there are multiple posts re: clean-up of the Celis home.

Whether it was an intruder or family members, I doubt very much that anyone could thoroughly clean their house in the wee hours of the night even if every light in the house were turned on. I know that I couldn't nor would I even try to clean my house at night because our neighborhood is very dark and overhead lights/lamps produce shadows. I suppose that I could vacuum and dust, but I wouldn't try to wash hardwood floors or any other cleaning project that requires plenty of light and a modicum of shadows.

Someone who is attempting to clean up an accident or crime scene probably wouldn't have many lights on in the wee hours because it would raise suspicion in even casual passersby. It would be very easy to miss tiny spots of blood or some other substance without proper lighting. I'm guessing that's what LE meant when they commented that the clean-up had been "adequate". :moo:

It's really interesting that in one version of the last time he saw Isabel, SC mentioned that he "dimmed the lights in her room " So, I guess any clean up in Isabel's room wouldn't have been completely in the darkness .... JMO

 

[Prof]

LE never said that there was any "clean up" in this case, adequate or otherwise.

What Pacheco stated
"Whoever is involved did an adequate job of really covering a lot of things that we could possibly look at."

Here's a video that shows Pacheco made the statement @ about 1:40
The reporter at the press conference had just asked:
"How did the perp do such a good job that they have flustered LE?"
and Pacheco had responded first with...LE being methodical, but not frustrated or flustered, and that investigations of this type are complex.
(from live transcription on 5/5/12 thread 11)
Then he states
"Whoever is involved did an adequate job of really covering a lot of things that we could possibly look at."
He even shakes his head side to side as he looks for the right words, before he uses "adequate." He changed reporter's words from good to adquate.

http://www.kvoa.com/videos/police-say-whoever-did-this-did-an-adequate-job/

 

[LisaB]

Just dust.. but don't worry about the apparent blood on the floor..

Has anybody confirmed that it was blood? I have read that a presumptive test for blood was negative, and also noted the following:

NO body fluids were found in Isabel's room. This would eliminate the possibility that the apparent blood actually was blood, and also reduces the likelihood that a sexual assault occurred in that room, or that Isa had wet her bed causing an exhausted parent to lose their temper.

Can someone direct me to a source for the "apparent blood" actually being confirmed as blood? It seems everyone is jumping to the conclusion that it is, and I have yet to find confirmation of that.

 

[LisaB]

Yeah, that's another thing. They're going to dust the furniture, but not clean up the blood on the floor? It makes no sense. At least, not to me.

JMO, as usual.

I think that if the person wiping prints had reason to think the stain was blood, or (assuming it was the perp) at least knew she had lost blood in the room, s/he would have been particularly attentive to cleaning it up to the best of their ability.

IMO, the house was not spic and span and an attempt was made to tidy up before LE came in, and someone ran a dust rag over Isabel's furniture. A lot of the furniture for girls is white, and there may have been grubby smudges and the person cleaning up may have thought they were being helpful. Has anyone ASKED the Celis' if someone cleaned up more than just the dishes in the sink? It may not be the big "mystery" we assume it is.