AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #23

[oceanblueeyes]

Ocean, respectfully, of COURSE both LE and CPS think Sergio is a danger to those boys.

They would be terribly negligent and exhibiting a gross misuse of power of they were to have initiated this separation unless they thought the children were at risk!

Think about it; Sergio is dodgy at best. LE and CPS, while not perfect, are organizations who have untold experience gauging family dynamics.

I sincerely doubt, with every fiber of my being, that CPS suggested ( yes, I know) this separation in order to let Sergio rest up and get back on board the SS Parent. It's a very serious thing and no matter what one believes about Sergio's involvement in Isa's disappearance, one would HAVE to recognize the gravity of being asked to separate from the other children.

Again, you may argue this was "voluntary", but do you, or ANYONE for that matter believe that this was all Sergio's idea? C'mon.

We can disagree on who disappeared Isa, but let's all admit that CPS visiting the home twice in December and recommending the separation in May is NOT minor, no big deal, thing.

I really mean this with all respect to your conviction of their innocence, but you really can't be blind to the four foot high writing on the wall.

IMO

I understand and I am quite use to the respectful chastizing I get when I have a minority opinion. I am even use to the not so respectful posts I get sometimes by others who disagree with my point of view.

But that still does not change my opinion that Sergio is not a danger to his children. If it was a proven fact that he was/is a danger by CPS or TPD he would have been arrested and CPS wouldnt have made the voluntary agreement but would have taken it before a Judge to make it legally binding.

For all I know Sergio may have become very depressed and vocalized contemplating suicide over Isa's abduction in front of his boys.... just like what happened to my friend who lost her son in a tragic accident and had the same thing happen to her when she was threatening to kill herself and the children and her husband overheard it. CPS stipulated that the only way she could be in contact with her three living children again was to have a mental health professional state she was no longer suicidal. She did as she was told and got treatment and in less than 3 months she was back with her husband and children and has been for years now.

I thought it was said Sergio had never even spoken to CPS until Isa went missing so how do we know the December incident involved him at all?

I am no more blind than I have been in many other cases..my eyes are always wide open, and yeah, I was told I was blind in some of those cases too..yet it turned out I wasn't so blind after all. LOL!

But this man is free to go anywhere that he wants to go and that even included going right up to the fence where the boys were close by and not a thing happened to him or we would have heard of it by now.

Does he have issues he needs to work on perhaps? I am sure he does but guessing is guessing and I dont see anything that points to him being a danger. Not one person in the doc dumps ever said that he was abusive to anyone.

And really it is a side issue anyway, imo, because LE stated it had nothing to do with Isa's abduction.

IMO

 

[SapphireSteel]

I understand and I am quite use to the respectful chastizing I get when I have a minority opinion. I am even use to the not so respectful posts I get sometimes by others who disagree with my point of view.

But that still does not change my opinion that Sergio is not a danger to his children. If it was a proven fact that he was/is a danger by CPS or TPD he would have been arrested and CPS wouldnt have made the voluntary agreement but would have taken it before a Judge to make it legally binding.

For all I know Sergio may have become very depressed and vocalized contemplating suicide over Isa's abduction in front of his boys.... just like what happened to my friend who lost her son in a tragic accident and had the same thing happen to her when she was threatening to kill herself and the children and her husband overheard it. CPS stipulated that the only way she could be in contact with her three living children again was to have a mental health professional state she was no longer suicidal. She did as she was told and got treatment and in less than 3 months she was back with her husband and children and has been for years now.

I thought it was said Sergio had never even spoken to CPS until Isa went missing so how do we know the December incident involved him at all?

I am no more blind than I have been in many other cases..my eyes are always wide open, and yeah, I was told I was blind in some of those cases too..yet it turned out I wasn't so blind after all. LOL!

But this man is free to go anywhere that he wants to go and that even included going right up to the fence where the boys were close by and not a thing happened to him or we would have heard of it by now.

Does he have issues he needs to work on perhaps? I am sure he does but guessing is guessing and I dont see anything that points to him being a danger. Not one person in the doc dumps ever said that he was abusive to anyone.

And really it is a side issue anyway, imo, because LE stated it had nothing to do with Isa's abduction.

IMO

Not if it was at the request of the boys themselves.

They may have asked for time apart from their father, without divulging any illegal activity on his behalf.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

LE won't make an arrest, according to the Chief, until they can prove it in court, as he said. I really don't think he would be making this very clear, at this point, if they thought it was a stranger abduction or talking about trying to prove who did this. Actually when he was talking about the paths of who could have kidnapped Isa, stranger abduction didn't seem like the top of the list. He just needed that one piece of evidence to prove the path they're looking at, or so it seems, because he was being very careful in what he said.

When a reporter asked what would happen if SC didn't make the agreement, then the Chief said it was up to CPS to take any further action they deemed warranted. But CPS consulted with detectives and some family members,(makes me wonder who they were), then the Chief said the agreement was made. He didn't say SC and RC were consulted, he said some family members, so this wasn't something off the wall just anyone told LE in the investigation and it was sensitive in nature. I personally believe some family members or at least one told LE something in the investigation and CPS did their own investigation consulting some family members to verify it.

Why do you say that? It would still apply no matter who the perpretrator turns out to be. They have to have the evidence to prove the case BARD, period. Gut feelings arent evidence.

If you read the CPS guidelines from AZ...they always consult with the parents. Both.

In their latest interview with the local media they said they do have suspect(s) and POIs.

IMO

 

[cluciano63]

I have no clue, any more than anyone here does, as to why Sergio can't see his kids (or was "asked" not to do so) but I don't believe the lack of an arrest means anything more than the fact that there is not enough evidence to charge him with anything re: the reason for not seeing the boys; doesn't mean there is not a reason, though, just not enough proof.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Not if it was at the request of the boys themselves.

They may have asked for time apart from their father, without divulging any illegal activity on his behalf.

That is the big problem we have. None of us have any knowledge about the agreement.

We are only left to guess.

IMO

 

[winterrose]

Why do you say that? It would still apply no matter who the perpretrator turns out to be. They have to have the evidence to prove the case BARD, period. Gut feelings arent evidence.

If you read the CPS guidelines from AZ...they always consult with the parents. Both.

In their latest interview with the local media they said they do have suspect(s) and POIs.

IMO

Right, but it just seems that if they were looking for a stranger, they would say they were trying to apprehend the suspect and make an arrest. His wording seems to indicate they have a path their working and they're trying to prove it and just need that one piece of evidence to make the arrest and take it to court, as he said in that May 14th presser. I'm just reading his in between the lines statements, he's walking all around it without coming right out and saying who they suspect.

Plus, along with the presser to tell about the CPS agreement, they also released the 911 calls.

 

[Dee10]

I have no clue, any more than anyone here does, as to why Sergio can't see his kids (or was "asked" not to do so) but I don't believe the lack of an arrest means anything more than the fact that there is not enough evidence to charge him with anything re: the reason for not seeing the boys; doesn't mean there is not a reason, though, just not enough proof.

Exactly and I will make an educated guess it must be a very serious concern for the boys that caused CPS to take such drastic measures at this time.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I understand and I am quite use to the respectful chastizing I get when I have a minority opinion. I am even use to the not so respectful posts I get sometimes by others who disagree with my point of view.

But that still does not change my opinion that Sergio is not a danger to his children. If it was a proven fact that he was/is a danger by CPS or TPD he would have been arrested and CPS wouldnt have made the voluntary agreement but would have taken it before a Judge to make it legally binding.

For all I know Sergio may have become very depressed and vocalized contemplating suicide over Isa's abduction in front of his boys.... just like what happened to my friend who lost her son in a tragic accident and had the same thing happen to her when she was threatening to kill herself and the children and her husband overheard it. CPS stipulated that the only way she could be in contact with her three living children again was to have a mental health professional state she was no longer suicidal. She did as she was told and got treatment and in less than 3 months she was back with her husband and children and has been for years now.

I thought it was said Sergio had never even spoken to CPS until Isa went missing so how do we know the December incident involved him at all?

I am no more blind than I have been in many other cases..my eyes are always wide open, and yeah, I was told I was blind in some of those cases too..yet it turned out I wasn't so blind after all. LOL!

But this man is free to go anywhere that he wants to go and that even included going right up to the fence where the boys were close by and not a thing happened to him or we would have heard of it by now.

Does he have issues he needs to work on perhaps? I am sure he does but guessing is guessing and I dont see anything that points to him being a danger. Not one person in the doc dumps ever said that he was abusive to anyone.

And really it is a side issue anyway, imo, because LE stated it had nothing to do with Isa's abduction.

IMO

Girl, you are TOTALLY right.

We are blind as bats about this case. And what seems patently obvious to one of us may seem total hooey to another.

And the thing is, until we get some answers, NOBODY is right. We just don't know.

We all have our gut pulling us in one direction or the other. It'd be nice to have some answers. But mostly we all just want what is right by Isabel. .

ETA: i missed the line about you NOT being blind :rofl: before I posted! Durrrrrr!

 

[gliving]

That is the big problem we have. None of us have any knowledge about the agreement.

We are only left to guess.

IMO

Exactly! Everyone has a right to their own opinion. It seriously makes my heart ache to see posters arguing over things unknown to any of us.

We need to go back to discussing floor plans or the dogs. :truce:

 

[winterrose]

Exactly! Everyone has a right to their own opinion. It seriously makes my heart ache to see posters arguing over things unknown to any of us.

We need to go back to discussing floor plans or the dogs. :truce:

LOL, okay, the dogs, did we figure out where the rest were? RR only picked up one.

 

[FORDANIEL]

Does anyone know,are either one of the parents back to work? Are the boys still playing ball.?Where is everyone staying? Points to ponder.

 

[FORDANIEL]

Did anyone happen to notice on RCs FB page that it says she attented Douglas HS,in Minden,Nevada-not Douglas,Az?

 

[GutFeeling!]

I don't care what anyone says, NO WAY I let them remove my remaining children from my life if I didn't have anything to hide. That simple.

Here's the problem though joe. They offer voluntary (lets pretend 60 days), you say no, I'll see you in court. Their response is fine, see you in court, they pop up to the court and come back with paperwork to remove your child then and there, with the added bonus of telling a judge "we didn't want to do this, we wanted 60 days and for Mr Joe to fulfill our requests to prove he is a good paret" - judge signs off, court proceedings begin (you have no child now) - more time required at first hearing .... all the time you are waiting for court dates and information to get to your lawyer. It has taken 6 months here so far, one more court appearance due in July, that will make 7 months.

60 days isn't looking so bad. Your lawyer can not fix everything in a week, and you are still without your child.

I agree with you, I would fight too for my grandchild - till it killed me. But given that threat of him being with a stranger in a foster home? OMG I would seriously consider the 60 days rather than that happen, and that is what would have happened. That happened to my grandson.

 

[FORDANIEL]

Minden,Nevada,is located in Douglas County,in Nevada.All this time I was thinking it was Douglas,Az!!!

 

[FrayedKnot]

Did anyone happen to notice on RCs FB page that it says she attented Douglas HS,in Minden,Nevada-not Douglas,Az?

Errrr? No. I did not, but I avoid FB. This is very interesting. I thought she was from Douglas, AZ.

Could it be a different RC?

 

[FORDANIEL]

Errrr? No. I did not, but I avoid FB. This is very interesting. I thought she was from Douglas, AZ.

Could it be a different RC?

No it is the same one-positive.

 

[FrayedKnot]

No it is the same one-positive.

That's really odd.

Okay, do you think maybe she could have started typing in her HS name and you know how FB autofills? Well maybe she just clicked on the first autofill?

I honestly have no idea. Just spitballing. I know it's been reported she was from Douglas, AZ and has family still there.

So what could be the reason for the NV high school? Hmmmmm.......more weirdness......

 

[GutFeeling!]

During questioning, Chief Villasenor reiterated that he would not comment on what caused the voluntary separation.

Villasenor emphasized this development does not mean that they have "settled on a path" in this investigation, and that, as has been the case, all leads and potential suspects are still being considered. He says that 12 to 15 detectives are working external viewpoints," in this case, looking into the possibility that a stranger abducted Isabel Celis. He says about four detectives are looking into internal possibilities - that a family member or someone connected to family is involved.

Whether there is family involvement or not, it just seems that LE is very heavily focused on it. Maybe it's because it's all they have to go on, but never the less, they have info we've not seen and might not.

May I just ask that you link what is on record and what is your opinion. Gets tough trying to see which is which. Not wanting to be a bully or anything but I think also the rules request we link everything.

Thanks :seeya:

 

[Jules71]

That's really odd.

Okay, do you think maybe she could have started typing in her HS name and you know how FB autofills? Well maybe she just clicked on the first autofill?

I honestly have no idea. Just spitballing. I know it's been reported she was from Douglas, AZ and has family still there.

So what could be the reason for the NV high school? Hmmmmm.......more weirdness......

I think that is exactly what happened. FB autofilled or she picked the wrong one. Same thing happened to me. It is the right profile for Becky. I believe the Douglas newspaper mentioned she did go to school in Douglas AZ.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Azcrabcakes]

According to the Douglas Dispatch, she graduated from Douglas High, Arizona. It states she even ran for "Miss Douglas."
http://www.douglasdispatch.com/articles/2012/05/11/news/doc4fa18d3b1b98f222950905.txt