AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #24

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GutFeeling! said:
BBM I starting doubting there was long ago, they would have acted on it by now imo.
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You could be right, but I am not sure about that. It's possible they were able to act on some of it - not sure we would know, right? What if they have or had someone under surveillance. What if they have info that identifies a possibly perp but they don't know who that is, e.g., DNA they got and typed but not matched. I keep thinking about that storage unit and CD's - did we ever get more info on that?
 
i think, maybe daddy was really, really mad about the dog

situation. it may have been very, very important in his mind,

and hence, may have lead to an altercation with the person in the

house who let the dogs out. or contributed to a state of mind

where he got ugly, in the house. moo. this is the best i can come

up with for motive.
 
If the search warrants were unsealed it might not go so well for Sergio. TPD uncovered something in their investigation that led to CPS getting involved & Sergio agreeing to stay away from the boys. It had to be something.

In sealed search warrants there could be witness affidavits that clearly point to the perp(s), an informants information or evidence found. Just because the family lives in the house doesn't mean they are aware of what evidence TPD has. One or both of the parents may have cleaned up thinking evidence was removed but TPD may have found it like large amounts of blood etc, a neighbor saw the perp(s) at 3am, video reveals a vehicle... Just examples. In Isa's case I wouldn't be surprised if one parent isn't aware of what the other parent might be doing or has done.

It's telling to me they remain sealed. Sadly after following many cases it doesn't always lead to an arrest right away or even years later. If people lie sometimes they have to wait until someone starts talking.
 
time said:
You could be right, but I am not sure about that. It's possible they were able to act on some of it - not sure we would know, right? What if they have or had someone under surveillance. What if they have info that identifies a possibly perp but they don't know who that is, e.g., DNA they got and typed but not matched. I keep thinking about that storage unit and CD's - did we ever get more info on that?
Click to expand...

The fact that the storage and CDs came out in the doc dump to me means it was nothing, just proof that they were looking.
 
Dr. Know? said:
If the search warrants were unsealed it might not go so well for Sergio. TPD uncovered something in their investigation that led to CPS getting involved & Sergio agreeing to stay away from the boys. It had to be something.

In sealed search warrants there could be witness affidavits that clearly point to the perp(s), an informants information or evidence found. Just because the family lives in the house doesn't mean they are aware of what evidence TPD has. One or both of the parents may have cleaned up thinking evidence was removed but TPD may have found it like large amounts of blood etc, a neighbor saw the perp(s) at 3am, video reveals a vehicle... Just examples. In Isa's case I wouldn't be surprised if one parent isn't aware of what the other parent might be doing or has done.

It's telling to me they remain sealed. Sadly after following many cases it doesn't always lead to an arrest right away or even years later. If people lie sometimes they have to wait until someone starts talking.
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Good post. BBM - wonder if any confidentiality related to the CPS stuff is what they are protecting. Not that it couldn't be more and probably would be.
 
pieper4 said:
The donation, errr, volunteer center is moving again.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/19015248/volunteers-in-isabels-search-on-the-move-again
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So the location is a secret until Rebecca announces it in the morning? I hope it's more visable in Tucson. I have been concerned that the Find Isabel fb had been quiet on facebook & twitter since around the 1st of July. I know I read they were as frustrated as everyone about not knowing if Sergio was back with the boys when rumors started around father's day that he was.

Also interesting was information on CPS in AZ. Surprisingly, I found out that in near death or death of a child, CPS releases that information monthly. Information pertaining to a joint investigation (CPS & LE) must be approved by the prosecutor before release so it doesn't jeopordize an ongoing investigation.

So...if there would be a release involving Sergio & the boys & SC was involved potentially in Isa's death, I don't think we will see what SC did until an arrest would be made. CPS won't release that information until given the go ahead. I'm sure it would be redacted like crazy and very brief, if released.

On the other hand, if he did nothing, it would be released. A clue!

There should be much more they could release now. I wonder if our media has requested it or did they only ask for the SW to be released?

https://www.azdes.gov/main.aspx?menu=166&id=6198
 
They aren't going to release anything important to the public. They are saving and protecting case info for what will hopefully be an eventual trial. That includes CPS info.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
BBM

May I ask why, Shelby?

If I had not seen it done in many other cases I may think something hinky too but it seems to be more customary when a case is ongoing and remains unsolved.

IMO
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Hi OBE,
Keeping warrants sealed means something to me because of what LE has to do to GET the warrant in the first place.
"An application for a warrant must be supported by a sworn, detailed statement made by a law enforcement officer appearing before a neutral judge or magistrate. The Supreme Court has said that probable cause exists when the facts and circumstances within the police officer's knowledge provide a reasonably trustworthy basis for a man of reasonable caution to believe that a criminal offense has been committed or is about to take place (see Carroll v. United States, 267 U.S. 132 [1925]). Probable cause can be established by out-of-court statements made by reliable police informants, even though those statements cannot be tested by the magistrate. However, probable cause will not lie where the only evidence of criminal activity is an officer's affirmation of suspicion or belief (see Aguilar v. Texas, 378 U.S. 108 [1964])"

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/the-fourth-amendment-warrant-requirement.html

I know some warrants were served at places that we would customarily see them served, like their home. Probable cause is needed as far as I know, which is not the same as reasonable suspicion(someone let me know if ai am wrong here)
I think they needed very good, strong reasons including proof of certain circumstances in order to get the warrants. I think keeping them sealed is to protect the case, it could be customary in AZ but then why release any. Also LE has continually said they do not want to compromise this case, perhaps there is information in those warrants they cannot safely let out now. I am just much more on the side of "it means something" right now.
Also, Dr. Know posted about this a few posts up, I do have the same feelings as Dr. Know regarding the warrants. :)
 
Yep a warrant for the Celis home would be a no-brainer because that is the first crime scene. Easy-peasy to get that one. Whatever they captured as part of the SW would be listed on the warrant and the Celis' would know because they would have a copy of the warrant. Probable cause is the standard to get a SW approved. Subsequent warrants would start to show what they believed might have happened and they don't want the public in on any of that info. Warrants outside of the Celis home/car would be info the Celis' would not know about (like if it was a neighbor's home, for instance).

The less the public knows about the details of the case, the more secure the case is for the DA to prosecute it and the defense won't be able to say that the police and DA compromised the defendant's rights by feeding case info to a prospective jury pool via the media (and a defense team will always try to make this argument if they can).
 
Azcrabcakes said:
I would think that the public is not warned about a particular predator because there is more than ONE perp out there.(In any given locale.) Parents should be vigilant at ALL times, not just for a time after a crime in committed. If you warn people, many will become cavalier once a known perp is caught. But what about the hundreds of others lurking about?

In the medical field, we treat ALL body fluids as potentially HIV infected. We are careful of ALL fluids, because any patient could infect us. Even the patient might not know they were infected. The riskiest body fluid is the one no one KNOWS is infected - thus practice universal precautions on all. The same principle applies to protecting our children.
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I wonder if LE does not actively warn people because they are trying to find the perp, and don't want to say too much for fear of the perp taking off. Some years ago there was a serial rapist who raped women in my town and the next town over. LE was quiet about it for the first two or three, after the fourth finally they came out and warned people. After the first rape they were doing extra patrols in the area, had officers stationed in parking lots of Apt. Buildings, nobody knew why at the time. Shortly after the warning went out a billboard with a composite sketch was put up. They never did find him, the rapes stopped HERE, but I am sure they continued in some new place he relocated too. Almost 10 years ago and they never got him. So I wonder if LE is between a rock and a hard place with this type of thing-warning people could help save someone in this town, but could also force the perp out to rape/kill in another area.
 
Madeleine74 said:
They aren't going to release anything important to the public. They are saving and protecting case info for what will hopefully be an eventual trial. That includes CPS info.
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Thank you. Of course they aren't. I was only trying to explain the laws in my post & my interpretation of CPS in AZ and what, when & how it would be released. I should have summed my post up with your response. It's what they don't release that interests me though. Thanks again.

Honestly, there's just too many children who have vanished that it takes a whole community or another state/country or county to even to help find them or to put the guilty one(s) in prison. Besides our laws, there are liars in many cases. What's not released is interesting to read to me always.
 
That CPS issue..I wonder if we will ever know..
I wonder if anything will happen once we get closer to the 90 days too.
 
The seperation of the boys from Serigo would only be due to neglect or abuse. That's what I found out via the site posted above. A child or children were in danger of neglect or abuse.

My heart goes out to the boys. They have been through enough. May they be protected from all of this no matter what they might have witnessed or know as a fact. There is support for them in Tucson. My heart is with them. Hopefully TPD can clear the parents and announce it...and if a responsible LE, protect Isa's brothers. pls.
 
Jules71 said:
Another case of some sicko coming into the home while the family is sleeping and raping and assaulting a 4 year old little girl. In this case, the little girl lived and her step dad was falsely accused - spent 13 weeks in jail and was released once DNA came back. They have a match to the DNA and are looking for the perp. Just makes me sick that this crap keeps happening. Same thing with Sierra Newbold but she was killed and they have that perp in jail.

4-Year-Old Sapulpa OK- Girl In Hospital After Being Attacked By Intruder - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
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It makes me sick too, that sickos kidnap kids out of their rooms, off the streets on their way to school, or on the way home; and it happens so often that people actually try to cover- up disguise- their personal tragedies under that umbrella- and they actually get away with it....murder ( in some cases) accidental death and illegal /ungodly ? disposal of a corpse ( in other cases)

:banghead:

where is adorable Isabel?
Where is Lisa Irwin? and Maddie?
 
Dr. Know? said:
So the location is a secret until Rebecca announces it in the morning? I hope it's more visable in Tucson. I have been concerned that the Find Isabel fb had been quiet on facebook & twitter since around the 1st of July. I know I read they were as frustrated as everyone about not knowing if Sergio was back with the boys when rumors started around father's day that he was.

Also interesting was information on CPS in AZ. Surprisingly, I found out that in near death or death of a child, CPS releases that information monthly. Information pertaining to a joint investigation (CPS & LE) must be approved by the prosecutor before release so it doesn't jeopordize an ongoing investigation.

So...if there would be a release involving Sergio & the boys & SC was involved potentially in Isa's death, I don't think we will see what SC did until an arrest would be made. CPS won't release that information until given the go ahead. I'm sure it would be redacted like crazy and very brief, if released.

On the other hand, if he did nothing, it would be released. A clue!

There should be much more they could release now. I wonder if our media has requested it or did they only ask for the SW to be released?

https://www.azdes.gov/main.aspx?menu=166&id=6198
Click to expand...

I went to look on the link you posted, hoping to find the call when social services was called back in Nov or dec for this family. They are not in any order one would think to look for. I think they are filed when when the report actually gets filed, i.e. I looked on one of the dec posts and it was for a call and report that was from 5/30?
I was just wondering if anyone has looked thru all the reports already? tia
 
Dr. Know? said:
The seperation of the boys from Serigo would only be due to neglect or abuse. That's what I found out via the site posted above. A child or children were in danger of neglect or abuse.

My heart goes out to the boys. They have been through enough. May they be protected from all of this no matter what they might have witnessed or know as a fact. There is support for them in Tucson. My heart is with them. Hopefully TPD can clear the parents and announce it...and if a responsible LE, protect Isa's brothers. pls.
Click to expand...

Yes, but what kind of abuse? What could he have done that would warrant the no contact agreement? What if it was because of abuse done to Isabel?

I agree, those boys have been through the worst kind of Hell. I wonder how they are doing.
 
leighmarker said:
I went to look on the link you posted, hoping to find the call when social services was called back in Nov or dec for this family. They are not in any order one would think to look for. I think they are filed when when the report actually gets filed, i.e. I looked on one of the dec posts and it was for a call and report that was from 5/30?
I was just wondering if anyone has looked thru all the reports already? tia
Click to expand...

I noticed if you hover your mouse over "basic information" it will display the child's name. I didn't see anything for Celis. These are all deaths or near deaths. It is horrific reading these. Absolutely terrible!

https://www.azdes.gov/main.aspx?menu=166&id=7376

ETA: I found Sylar Newton if anyone followed that case: https://www.azdes.gov/uploadedFiles...)/Child_Fatalities/sylar_newton_7_25_2010.pdf
 
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