AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #24

[Jules71]

Looking at the FB page and see a comment made on June 21st under a shared link "New leads falling off" which says Dad owes money and that is why they took her and why he and Becky are getting divorced.

Any truth to the rumor of divorce?

https://www.facebook.com/FindIsabelCelis

 

[Jules71]

Sorry for the multiple posts.

http://www.kvoa.com/news/isabel-celis-mother-speaks-at-opening-of-new-volunteer-command-center/

"Becky says she's uncomfortable being in front of camera, but hopeful that someone out there knows something that will bring her little girl home."

 

[Dr. Know?]

The parents haven't filed in Pima County for divorce. They could file in another county though, I guess.

http://www.cosc.pima.gov/home.asp?Include=pages/record_search.htm

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

The donation, errr, volunteer center is moving again.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/19015248/volunteers-in-isabels-search-on-the-move-again

and that IS the most important thing to the parents.....the donations-!
jmo -

 

[Jules71]

New video of Rebecca speaking:
http://bringisahome.com/becky-celis-welcomes-visitors-to-new-command-center/
http://www.kpho.com/story/19018668/...-find-isabel-celis-move-to-new-command-center

ETA: It is very uncomfortable watching her speak. She trips up a lot and stumbles over her words (and repeats key words like faith and strength, etc.)- and I hope I am never in a position like that. I don't know if it is because of guilt or wrong-doing or just nerves. I am not sure. Why not get a family spokesperson who can speak on her behalf?

ETA 2: Didn't see Sergio

 

[TxLady2]

I believe LE knows exactly what happened to Isabel and who is responsible. The more I think about it, the more certain I am. IF for one minute, they thought it was someone outside of the family, LE would be warning parents to keep a closer eye -make sure the doors are locked...etc. But they aren't. They know it is unlikely that whoever harmed Isabel, will harm another child.

I had to laugh at your comment-that life doesn't reflect a tv show where everything is wrapped up in an hour. I have been told since my first day of college, that LE is NOTHING like I have seen on tv. Truer words were never spoken. Thanks!!

LE may (think they) know what happened and who is responsible BUT being able to bring charges against them is a whole 'nother ballgame. It requires much more than people think. The DA wants solid evidence, not speculation or theory.

It's not what you know, it's what you can prove that counts.

Good Morning, I have not been on for several days due to computer problems. Had to disconnect our service and start all over. PITB!!!

 

[TxLady2]

I would think that the public is not warned about a particular predator because there is more than ONE perp out there.(In any given locale.) Parents should be vigilant at ALL times, not just for a time after a crime in committed. If you warn people, many will become cavalier once a known perp is caught. But what about the hundreds of others lurking about?

In the medical field, we treat ALL body fluids as potentially HIV infected. We are careful of ALL fluids, because any patient could infect us. Even the patient might not know they were infected. The riskiest body fluid is the one no one KNOWS is infected - thus practice universal precautions on all. The same principle applies to protecting our children.

Exactly!! The only time most LE feel it is necessary to warn the public is if it's a serial-type crime, if they have a description or profile. It's pretty hard to connect a series of kidnappings to the same perp because the victims don't usually survive to give them any information.
Parents should not have to be warned to be vigilent and take extra precautions to protect their loved ones.

 

[Shelby2]

Sorry for the multiple posts.

http://www.kvoa.com/news/isabel-celis-mother-speaks-at-opening-of-new-volunteer-command-center/

"Becky says she's uncomfortable being in front of camera, but hopeful that someone out there knows something that will bring her little girl home."

Well I understand being uncomfortable in front of the camera, but I would be more uncomfortable if my daughter has been missing this long, kwim?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

and that IS the most important thing to the parents.....the donations-!
jmo -

Sure sounds like it.

Have Isabel's parents returned to their respective jobs?

Is anyone living at the family home?

That Becky seems so sure that Isabel is alive and will eventually be returning home leads me to believe that they have a good idea who took her and why. Maybe they really do need money to get Isabel back if she was taken because Sergio owed someone money. :moo:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi OBE,
Keeping warrants sealed means something to me because of what LE has to do to GET the warrant in the first place.
"An application for a warrant must be supported by a sworn, detailed statement made by a law enforcement officer appearing before a neutral judge or magistrate. The Supreme Court has said that probable cause exists when the facts and circumstances within the police officer's knowledge provide a reasonably trustworthy basis for a man of reasonable caution to believe that a criminal offense has been committed or is about to take place (see Carroll v. United States, 267 U.S. 132 [1925]). Probable cause can be established by out-of-court statements made by reliable police informants, even though those statements cannot be tested by the magistrate. However, probable cause will not lie where the only evidence of criminal activity is an officer's affirmation of suspicion or belief (see Aguilar v. Texas, 378 U.S. 108 [1964])"

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/the-fourth-amendment-warrant-requirement.html

I know some warrants were served at places that we would customarily see them served, like their home. Probable cause is needed as far as I know, which is not the same as reasonable suspicion(someone let me know if ai am wrong here)
I think they needed very good, strong reasons including proof of certain circumstances in order to get the warrants. I think keeping them sealed is to protect the case, it could be customary in AZ but then why release any. Also LE has continually said they do not want to compromise this case, perhaps there is information in those warrants they cannot safely let out now. I am just much more on the side of "it means something" right now.
Also, Dr. Know posted about this a few posts up, I do have the same feelings as Dr. Know regarding the warrants.

Every scene where a crime has been committed has had a SW served on it that I have ever read about. The abduction of Isa from her home would be more than enough to obtain a SW of her home.

And I think probable cause was made when LE tracked the scent from Isa's room over to Cooper Street and that home was entered by a SW.

What other places are you taking about?

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

How do we know they haven't?

550+ pages of information is A LOT, and they didn't publish all of it either.

It takes time and manpower to process these leads.

People seem to think LE can wave a magic wand and get results...often they have a mountain of circumstantial evidence, enough to make an arrest 20 years ago...these days juries pretty much require forensic evidence to convict...the CSI effect.

LE may be ready to arrest, but the local DA's office is the one who prosecutes, and may feel the case is not air tight yet.

It's all political.

Personally I believe LE are in the process of gradually ramping up pressure on certain parties, in the hope one will snap and start talking. This will take time. Life does not reflect a tv show where everything is wrapped up in an hour.

I think LE is at a dead end.

I agree with GutFeeling and it wouldnt take this long if they really had any evidence of who abducted Isa from her home.

It is long past an hour as if in a tv show. Isa was abducted months ago.

CE cases are tried much more than DE cases and won everyday in courtrooms all across this country.

Jurors that must have forensic evidence and nothing else are really few and far between. If the DA can build a strong circumstantial evidence case then they can win it like it has happened many times before.

IMO

 

[Madeleine74]

That Becky seems so sure that Isabel is alive and will eventually be returning home leads me to believe that they have a good idea who took her and why. Maybe they really do need money to get Isabel back if she was taken because Sergio owed someone money. :moo:

I'm having trouble understanding why they would call 911 and allow this whole investigation to proceed if they knew (or thought they knew) who had her and why. And why they would keep this secret from TPD, the FBI and who knows who else is beyond me. If they knew or maybe knew who took her, the FBI would surely find her or at least find the person supposedly involved.

I don't see any evidence of this scenario. The FBI would hand them the money to get Isa back--they wouldn't have to sell plastic bracelets and other things to raise the $$$. Pretty sure the TPD and FBI consider this an inside the family situation (likely perp = SC). It's a matter of getting enough evidence so an arrest can be made, IMO.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Sure sounds like it.

Have Isabel's parents returned to their respective jobs?

Is anyone living at the family home?

That Becky seems so sure that Isabel is alive and will eventually be returning home leads me to believe that they have a good idea who took her and why. Maybe they really do need money to get Isabel back if she was taken because Sergio owed someone money. :moo:

I think it is very common for parents of missing children to think their child is alive and is going to come home.

Even though AGT has been arrested for Sierra Lamar's murder Marlene still wants to believe she is alive.

The only mention of him owing money was done by some quack that called the tip line saying he owed his boss money. LE couldnt even find this woman and his employer stated he did not owe them money.

I havent seen anything proving Sergio owed anyone money.

IMO

 

[Shelby2]

Every scene where a crime has been committed has had a SW served on it that I have ever read about. The abduction of Isa from her home would be more than enough to obtain a SW of her home.

And I think probable cause was made when LE tracked the scent from Isa's room over to Cooper Street and that home was entered by a SW.

What other places are you taking about?

IMO

I know why warrants were served at her home. I am talking about the sealed warrants. I don't know where they were served because they are sealed.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm having trouble understanding why they would call 911 and allow this whole investigation to proceed if they knew (or thought they knew) who had her and why. And why they would keep this secret from TPD, the FBI and who knows who else is beyond me. If they knew or maybe knew who took her, the FBI would surely find her or at least find the person supposedly involved.

I don't see any evidence of this scenario. The FBI would hand them the money to get Isa back--they wouldn't have to sell plastic bracelets and other things to raise the $$$. Pretty sure the TPD and FBI consider this an inside the family situation (likely perp = SC). It's a matter of getting enough evidence so an arrest can be made, IMO.

I dont think that is true and even TPD has said they are keeping all their options open.

I hope they did not immediately have tunnel vision like some LE can have and can only see the parent or parents or a family member as the one responsible party.

That just happened in with the 4 year old girl from OK who was raped by an intruder. LE jumped to conclusions even before they had the results back and arrested the very man that called 911 for help. This innocent man was held in jail for 13 weeks. Unforgivable, imo.

If it was SC that harmed Isa then why has their investigation taken them to three different states and Mexico?

IMO

 

[Madeleine74]

I dont think that is true and even TPD has said they are keeping all their options open.

Of course that's what they publicly say! They're not going to disclose who they believe is their primary suspect--no reason to do that and compromise their investigation.

Remember the long game in all of this: in preparation for future litigation (i.e. a trial), LE doesn't want to do or say anything that will give the defense any reason to point to LE as focusing on one person, polluting a potential jury pool, etc.

As for what LE in other jurisdictions did or didn't do in their cases, those cases have no bearing on Isa's case and do not even involve the TPD.

 

[Shelby2]

Also bear in mind that LE knows the perp is listening to everything they say.

 

[GutFeeling!]

Question for the locals ... What is the DA's Office like there? Are they numbers people or usually "trust in LE department?" Anyone know?

 

[FrayedKnot]

I'm having trouble understanding why they would call 911 and allow this whole investigation to proceed if they knew (or thought they knew) who had her and why. And why they would keep this secret from TPD, the FBI and who knows who else is beyond me. If they knew or maybe knew who took her, the FBI would surely find her or at least find the person supposedly involved.

I don't see any evidence of this scenario. The FBI would hand them the money to get Isa back--they wouldn't have to sell plastic bracelets and other things to raise the $$$. Pretty sure the TPD and FBI consider this an inside the family situation (likely perp = SC). It's a matter of getting enough evidence so an arrest can be made, IMO.

Yes. If the FBI didn't know they were lying.

But since the FBI knows that the Celises know darn well what happened, they certainly wouldn't back the reward.

Some shady family member who is in on the whole thing along with SC and RC would turn on them and collect the $$. The FBI has enough that they don't need to pay for misleading info.

IMHO. That is, my OPINION.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I found something, actually I found it about 3 weeks ago and went back to double check it more thoroughly tonight. When I search JM's criminal case on this site and look up the minutes on it (without putting in a name, just the CR#) there's 19 cases on record from all around AZ. Almost all with this charge. Many different names, some only have the State vs. ?. So many counties & courts listed. Now I need to find the news about it. They did make a bust recently that comes up on a google search but not sure if it's JM's bust. We have many anymore.

1 ATTEMPTED-DANGEROUS DRUG-POSS/USE 11/2/2011 GUILTY
2 DRUG PARAPHERNALIA-POSSESS/USE 11/2/2011 COURT DISMISSAL
3 POSSESS/USE WPN IN DRUG OFCR-201100587 F 11/2/2011 COURT DISMISSAL


Same charges, there's two Rodriguez's too. There appears to have been an indictiment that lead to this bust. This was a big bust and the court records show all of them happening on 5/3/11. The docket for JM is out of Douglas.

So yeah, I do believe Cartel could be involved. The Celis' had to know about this and let him stay with them and their children?

Go to the minutes search and put this number in. CR-201100587

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/publicaccess/caselookup.aspx


http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/publicaccess/minutes.aspx