Found Deceased AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 *Arrest* #26

[Soulsad]

With all due respect, you have completely misunderstood my reference to Isabelle's brothers. I did not indicate or suggest in any way that one or both brothers might have been responsible for her disappearance. I specifically alluded to questionable conduct by an adult. My reference to "Isabelle and her brothers" simply means that the CPS visit to the Celis' home could have been warranted for the safety and well-being of any/all three children. All three children might have been at risk from the questionable behavior of their parents or other adult/s who frequented the home.

That said, anyone familiar with the JonBenet Ramsey case knows that parents will go to extremes to protect a child who may have committed a serious crime, even if it was an accident. :moo:

Surely you aren't saying that Burke Ramsey is guilty of murdering Jon Bonet or are you? I didn't know he was arrested for her murder. Will have to go to her thread and see what I've missed.

Either way, any possible brother involvement suggested or later proved in Isabel's demise, would still need to be addressed by the authorities (all of them). We know nothing about either CPS visits right now. It's all assumptions on our parts.

 

[flourish]

Surely you aren't saying that Burke Ramsey is guilty of murdering Jon Bonet or are you? I didn't know he was arrested for her murder. Will have to go to her thread and see what I've missed.

Either way, any possible brother involvement suggested or later proved in Isabel's demise, would still need to be addressed by the authorities (all of them). We know nothing about either CPS visits right now. It's all assumptions on our parts.

(Burke Ramsey has not been arrested, no, but it's not an absurd theory... It's a theory many people subscribe to... There is a lot more information on her section of this forum.)

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[BetteDavisEyes]

Surely you aren't saying that Burke Ramsey is guilty of murdering Jon Bonet or are you? I didn't know he was arrested for her murder. Will have to go to her thread and see what I've missed.

Either way, any possible brother involvement suggested or later proved in Isabel's demise, would still need to be addressed by the authorities (all of them). We know nothing about either CPS visits right now. It's all assumptions on our parts.

I'm not accusing Burke or suggesting anything of the sort. Burke's possible involvement is one of several theories proposed on the JonBenet Ramsey forum on Websleuths. There has been a plethora of speculation and much discussion of Burke's possible involvement in his sister's death.

Since Isabel was the family member who disappeared and was later found deceased, many people probably think that the CPS visit had something to do with the little girl. I have no idea why CPS became involved with the Celis family, but it's possible that Isabel's brothers were as much at risk as Isabel might have been. If/When there's an arrest and charges filed in Isabel's murder, we might learn more details of circumstances that warranted visit/s by CPS and Sergio's subsequent departure from the home for several months.

 

[katydid23]

I remember reading a theory from a local, way back when CPS was involved. And it made sense and stuck with me.

It was said that maybe Sergio had threatened suicide, and had made those suicidal threats in front of the boys. And so CPS stepped in and asked him to leave for the boy's safety and peace of mind. It seems possible, in my opinion.

 

[minazoe]

I remember reading a theory from a local, way back when CPS was involved. And it made sense and stuck with me.

It was said that maybe Sergio had threatened suicide, and had made those suicidal threats in front of the boys. And so CPS stepped in and asked him to leave for the boy's safety and peace of mind. It seems possible, in my opinion.

yes, but wasn't that the time after Isabel disappeared? there were two times before as far as know, right? twice before, once after.

Sergio seems unstable...although i don't know how you can be stable when your baby is missing..still though you can't do that to your living children.

suicide threats sound manipulative to me. I guess Im a cynic.

 

[liz b.]

I remember reading a theory from a local, way back when CPS was involved. And it made sense and stuck with me.

It was said that maybe Sergio had threatened suicide, and had made those suicidal threats in front of the boys. And so CPS stepped in and asked him to leave for the boy's safety and peace of mind. It seems possible, in my opinion.

I have honestly never known a situation where a parent would have a no contact order placed because of a threat of suicide. The two boys were not very young children at that point. And it would usually be considered punitive to not allow a parent to see his children due to depression, severe stress or anxiety. I have known of situations where a parent was seriously depressed, but the whole family, including the kids, was involved in the treatment and counseling. CPS wants to keep families together whenever possible. jmo,though...

 

[ksprincess]

I am a former social worker and can think of at least one case where a Dad had attempted suicide in front of a child and child was removed from the home temporarily and then placed back in with Mom but Dad had to live elsewhere and only had supervised visits until he finished a treatment plan.

I don't think that this is why Sergio had to leave the home, I have no idea what that was about though.

 

[Knox]

Bumping to keep on first page.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Bumping because Tucson police collected a lot of evidence, have videos from numerous security cameras, have the FBI's BAU's opinion, have evidence from an FBI cadaver dog, and now have Isabel's remains proving she was murdered. This should NOT remain an unsolved homicide case.

 

[Noseagainsttheglass]

I am a local and was at that baseball game, the eve of Isa's "disappearance". I remember it like it was yesterday! It haunts me

 

[Rott Mom]

Every time I hear Abba's song "Dancing Queen", I see Isa dancing to it.

God Bless you Isa - Justice is coming.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Where did Sergio drive from 10:30 pm-11:00 pm to buy sandwiches on the night of Isabel's disappearance?

I wonder if someoneslept on the couch for the first time (on the night that Isabel's disappearance) to make sure no one entered Isabel's room and saw she wasn't there.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

-Isa always wanted Sergio when she was sick not Becky. Becky said she would say she was sick but wasn't so she could stay home with Sergio. Sergio describes spending sick days watching Mama Mia together 3 times in a row together in bed. Becky would get home and see Isa obviously wasn't sick but had spent all day in bed with Sergio. So odd to me.

I shortened and bolded that

When I saw Mama Mia! on Broadway with my teenage daughter, I felt uncomfortable and I'm not a prude. Almost the entire Mama Mia! show is about women having sex and wanting sex. Isabel was six-years-old and repeatedly watched it with her dad. Wth? Didn't the Celis family have any Disney or Animal Planet movies?

 

[minazoe]

that really doesn't sound good. i mean its not hard to imagine this being a grooming situation...I mean the fact that she's dead and hearing these things.

 

[lonetraveler]

That's a lot of what if's. I will repeat that there is no reason to cover up an accident. If it had anything to do with Isabel's brothers, parents would realize that no matter the circumstances they must allow the child face the justice system. That's why there are different laws & degrees of laws for children. Again, we have absolutely no indication that the children had anything to do with Isabel going missing. As for the parents possibility of being involved, there again there would have to be an agreement between one, the other or even both to cover for the possible crime. Right now it's all speculation based on nothing. I would hate to put the cart before the horse here.

I am grateful to God that Isabel was found but am devastated that she was found deceased. I'm not ready to blame any one in her family but will keep an open mind if and when someone is brought to trial. Everything I've stated here is said respectfully. Rest in Eternal Peace Isabel❣

Respectfully, you are correct that there is no reason to cover up an accidental death. That said, in real life there are countless instances where that is indeed done by one or both parents. On this web site alone there are cases upon cases where the death of a child is covered up by the family. There are many times where parents,'no matter what', do not follow through on the "realization" that they should allow "little Johnny or little Jane" face the justice system for what they have done. Again, on Websleuths we look at all possibilities irregardless of who the players happen to be. We have been there, done that and many, many times unfortunately, we find the people closest to the dead child are involved, not only in the death but the cover-up as well. I'm not implying that the family is involved but I am saying that sleuthing is what we do and no one, absolutely no one is exempt.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Bumping because what else does the Tucson PD need to make an arrest, fgs?

Tucson PD has Isabel's remains proving she is dead. They have at least one security camera video showing the ground outside Isabel's window and no one carrying Isabel out her window. They have at least one security video showing car traffic on the road outside Isabel's house showing who left the Celis' house in a vehicle on the night Isabel disappeared. They have evidence from inside Isabel's home and window screen. They have Tucson CPS' report about something "unhealthy' occurring in the Celis' home earlier in the year. They have the FBI's BAU's opinion. They have the FBI's cadaver dog's "opinion" on cadaverine smell in Isabel's house.

 

[ksprincess]

I shortened and bolded that

When I saw Mama Mia! on Broadway with my teenage daughter, I felt uncomfortable and I'm not a prude. Almost the entire Mama Mia! show is about women having sex and wanting sex. Isabel was six-years-old and repeatedly watched it with her dad. Wth? Didn't the Celis family have any Disney or Animal Planet movies?

My nieces watched Mama Mia over and over when it came out and knew all the songs. I've seen it multiple times and never felt uncomfortable, I'm assuming the movie and play were different.

 

[thefragile7393]

I shortened and bolded that

When I saw Mama Mia! on Broadway with my teenage daughter, I felt uncomfortable and I'm not a prude. Almost the entire Mama Mia! show is about women having sex and wanting sex. Isabel was six-years-old and repeatedly watched it with her dad. Wth? Didn't the Celis family have any Disney or Animal Planet movies?

At 6 years old it's about the music more than anything. Too young to get the other things, and it has some great music...more than likely that's why.

 

[DatelineFan]

I shortened and bolded that

When I saw Mama Mia! on Broadway with my teenage daughter, I felt uncomfortable and I'm not a prude. Almost the entire Mama Mia! show is about women having sex and wanting sex. Isabel was six-years-old and repeatedly watched it with her dad. Wth? Didn't the Celis family have any Disney or Animal Planet movies?

REALLY?? OMG, I'm... Disturbed.

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[thefragile7393]

REALLY?? OMG, I'm... Disturbed.

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I watched Grease for the music at that age lol. Had no clue about anything until I was an adult and watched later-I loved the music. Looking back I'm surprised my parents allowed it, but Really...not that huge a deal necessarily.