Found Deceased AZ - Isabella Grogan-Cannella, 8, Bullhead City, 2 September 2014 - #4

[newone]

It's possible ( probable?) there are other inmates inside that are family friends/ acquaintances to the victim and her family. jmoo

and known associates of RF are inmates too......((previously linked upthread as per his arraignment info))

 

[lonetraveler]

For the most part, don't the majority of these cases plead 'Not guilty'? Especially if it is a DP case - what do they have to lose? At least this plea allows for wiggle room in the seal department.

Yep, a very overwhelming majority plead "Not guilty". In a "death penalty" qualified case they would be really stupid not to plead "Not guilty" especially if the DA does not offer a deal. I'm assuming no deal was offered and there appears to be adequate evidence pointing to him. Heck, a majority of inmates claim to be "not guilty".

 

[news.talk]

I've had it... :thinking:

Given that TG is accused of being a druggie and also is seemingly oblivious to the environment she created for her children I understand the anger we feel toward this mother.


As Ontario Mom commented (and I expect many of use would accept), "everyone is different" and OM also acknowledged she knows of "other people ... who would in fact be too distraught to call 911 themselves."


THIS IS NOT DIRECTED TO ANYONE SPECIFIC, THIS APPLIES TO ALL OF US.....


Why is TG not offered that same understanding? (well, "SHE KILLED HER KID, WHY SHOULD WE???! GRRRRRR! KILL THE TG SUPPORTER!!") It just concerns me that because TG seemingly is a 'very bad mother' (and whom many believe is at least indirectly responsible for the death of her child) that everything and anything she says, does or farts is automatically and unequivocally defamed and scourged to damnation. I get the anger (I also am angry), but it appears too easily a broad-stroked anger and cheapens the analysis.


Regarding the lack of 'background noise' during the 911 call....


It is possible the other adults were outside searching the park or river accesses or wherever during the 911 call.
RF indicated TG was upstairs and distraught but we do not hear TG wailing or screaming during the 911 call. Could she not be distraught and non-vocal at the same time? In shock and fearful disbelief her daughter is missing? Distraught does not necessarilly mean screaming and wailing. TG had no explicit reason to be in such a state, so why should we hear her?


No one here, as far as I know, knows what TG was doing during that 911 call. Given how RF seemed calm but obviously discombobulated himself during the 911 call, his info regarding TG could have been inaccurate. At that moment TG could have been outside with the other adults.


I am not making excuses for anyone (and I am thoroughly disgusted that I feel I have to qualify this post because some might accuse me of defending a drug mother's lifestyle and would reign all heck-fire on me / this post). I am trying to be reasonable in applying expectation, assumption and observation and, attempting to hopefully separate out reasonable and fair possibilities from the "all druggie everything bad bad bad kitchen sink stinker evil druggie druggie druggie" meme.


Many call her out, saying TG is a lousy mother. Smack smack smack! Increased risk for harm? Certainly. An absolute path to abduction and pantie-less murder? No. TG made a tragic mistake in allowing JJR to stay in her home. I believe TG never expected JJR to turn out to be a sick animal toward her child as he revealed himself to be. The 'ex-girlfriend and animal strangulation' issues attributed to JJR should have been a glaring red flag to TG - I do not fully understand nor excuse her letting that slide ..maybe she did not believe it, JJR denied it?


TG obviously never felt her children were ever under any threat from JJR ..JJR's (best) friends never expected he was capable of murder. We may accuse TG of *knowingly* exposing her children to a criminal element, but we can not accuse her of *knowingly* exposing her children to a *murderer*.


I believe (based on LE reports) TG is NOT directly responsible for the death of her child. Her baby girl was murdered by someone she trusted. *A situation many other parents have experienced*, drug lifestyle or not.


As it now stands, JJR is charged / responsible for the murder of Isabella Grogan-Cannella unless further information dictates otherwise. And TG is the murdered child's grieving mother, regardless of *how* people believe she should grieve or how she appears in public.

The FB groups are full of speculators and people who think they know something ..the only conspiracy theory yet to appear is that TG and RF hired aliens from Pluto to take over JJR's body and use it to murder their child.

Get a grip.

You *may* be confusing the opinions here with SM? While the majority of posters may appear to have criticized the actions of the parents the evening of the murder, I view it more as critical thinking. The timeline and accounts don't add up. It is in the purpose of this discussion to explore these inconsistencies. Unfortunately, it is the parents of the victim that are causing these inconsistencies.

I have no doubt that whether TG was involved directly or indirectly, will begin to show the signs of genuine grieving - those emotions can vary and there is no timeframe in which those emotions should evolve. I agree that it is petty to disect each tear, but there seems to be a general frustration with the lack of charges against someone that knowingly put a child at risk and is seemingly evading punishment. It is even harder to grieve more than the mother of the victim, while the community watches as she seems to be enjoying life even more now. I question why LE hasn't addressed the community speaking on behalf of the mother, if they do in fact, have no intention of bringing charges. The fact that they haven't, speaks volumes IMHO.

Bottom line, there needs to be a level of tolerance and understanding - even some latitude when reading the comments surrounding this case. Whenever there is a child murdered as a result of neglect on behalf of the people that are supposed to protect them, there is bound to be a high degree of emotion surrounding the case. Just as we need to be understanding of the mother's grief process, we also need to be understanding of her critics. We are parents for the most part- there is NO WAY to separate our innate biological instincts when we discuss the murder of a child and the people who failed her.

 

[newone]

a certain level of decorum is required in courtroom attendance MOO

 

[lonetraveler]

Sometimes you just need to walk away for a while, go for a walk, read a book, take a relaxing bath or shower, calm down.......................breathe. People are always passionate when in regards to children cases. I know that I get very passionate and have been given a time out at least once. Sometimes it becomes necessary to realize that some people will never see the light in the very same way that I see the light. I have involved myself in following so many cases of missing children who are forever missing or found murdered. I always swear that I will never follow another one again because it takes so much out of me for a very long time. I think that some of us suffer PTSD and are so weary of seeing the very same thing over and over again in most of these tragic cases. We see irresponsible parents who are only for themselves and the children come second or third or never. Just the magnitude of these cases is mind altering. There comes a time when we get totally fed up with this behavior and we want something done about it. I personally think that it is way past time to start holding the negligent parents responsible for harm that comes to their child due to their selfish, self-centered, self pleasuring, drug addicted selves. I think that this very thing is what you are seeing on this thread. TG may not have directly harmed her child but she was instrumental in indirectly harming her child. It is a fact that due to her piss-poor decision making she put her child in harms way. There is no way in hell she did not know that she was exposing her children to her friends who are the dregs of society. She simply can not continue to plead ignorance. The very fact that she continues to toot what a great mother she is, is enough to incite a riot among all people who know just how wrong she is. It is time for people to be enraged and pissed off at people who give birth and then act like a Tom cat afterwards. She had Bella only two months and the fact is, Bella died on her watch. We are "getting a grip", a grip that all people should be getting right now. That said, I respect your opinion and ask that you respect mine.

 

[lonetraveler]

You *may* be confusing the opinions here with SM? While the majority of posters may appear to have criticized the actions of the parents the evening of the murder, I view it more as critical thinking. The timeline and accounts don't add up. It is in the purpose of this discussion to explore these inconsistencies. Unfortunately, it is the parents of the victim that are causing these inconsistencies.

I have no doubt that whether TG was involved directly or indirectly, will begin to show the signs of genuine grieving - those emotions can vary and there is no timeframe in which those emotions should evolve. I agree that it is petty to disect each tear, but there seems to be a general frustration with the lack of charges against someone that knowingly put a child at risk and is seemingly evading punishment. It is even harder to grieve more than the mother of the victim, while the community watches as she seems to be enjoying life even more now. I question why LE hasn't addressed the community speaking on behalf of the mother, if they do in fact, have no intention of bringing charges. The fact that they haven't, speaks volumes IMHO.

Bottom line, there needs to be a level of tolerance and understanding - even some latitude when reading the comments surrounding this case. Whenever there is a child murdered as a result of neglect on behalf of the people that are supposed to protect them, there is bound to be a high degree of emotion surrounding the case. Just as we need to be understanding of the mother's grief process, we also need to be understanding of her critics. We are parents for the most part- there is NO WAY to separate our innate biological instincts when we discuss the murder of a child and the people who failed her.

We were obviously posting at the very same time.

 

[lonetraveler]

yep,RF does not sound anything like a Tweaker.Nor does TG look or act like one.I'm more inclined to believe they were small time dealing it than using it.JR is the obvious meth head.IF that is true I also don't believe they would let JR smoke all their inventory all day without him doing something for them? I also don't believe 6 grown adults would go to Walmart together to by kid's snacks after partying (drinking,smoking weed) all day......

I've been wondering where JR got his meth since he was homeless (had been thrown out of his previous dwelling). Haven't heard about employment anywhere either. He had to get it somewhere very convenient to have been sitting around smoking it.

 

[news.talk]

I've been wondering where JR got his meth since he was homeless (had been thrown out of his previous dwelling). Haven't heard about employment anywhere either. He had to get it somewhere very convenient to have been sitting around smoking it.

IMO, drug addicts don't need a job to support their habit. They live off the grid, so it is difficult to ascertain how they support heir lifestyle.

 

[WillenFan21]

Is anyone else appalled at the way some people on social media are treating Tania? I mean don't get me wrong I have no idea what happened and yes I have my suspicions however until there is evidence that proves she was involved I won't believe she is guilty. Now that I know that they are waiting on test results on if SA happened I'm going to take back what I said about her being possibly involved. I want to wait to see what the results are on that before I pass judgment on Tania Regardless just wow people are being down right nasty to her. I mean this woman lost her child in a horrific way and regardless of her drug choices she still loves her baby.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

You *may* be confusing the opinions here with SM? While the majority of posters may appear to have criticized the actions of the parents the evening of the murder, I view it more as critical thinking. The timeline and accounts don't add up. It is in the purpose of this discussion to explore these inconsistencies. Unfortunately, it is the parents of the victim that are causing these inconsistencies.

I have no doubt that whether TG was involved directly or indirectly, will begin to show the signs of genuine grieving - those emotions can vary and there is no timeframe in which those emotions should evolve. I agree that it is petty to disect each tear, but there seems to be a general frustration with the lack of charges against someone that knowingly put a child at risk and is seemingly evading punishment. It is even harder to grieve more than the mother of the victim, while the community watches as she seems to be enjoying life even more now. I question why LE hasn't addressed the community speaking on behalf of the mother, if they do in fact, have no intention of bringing charges. The fact that they haven't, speaks volumes IMHO.

Bottom line, there needs to be a level of tolerance and understanding - even some latitude when reading the comments surrounding this case. Whenever there is a child murdered as a result of neglect on behalf of the people that are supposed to protect them, there is bound to be a high degree of emotion surrounding the case. Just as we need to be understanding of the mother's grief process, we also need to be understanding of her critics. We are parents for the most part- there is NO WAY to separate our innate biological instincts when we discuss the murder of a child and the people who failed her.

The timeline discrepancy(ies) is fair game. And "critical thinking" analysis is better than the "she's a lousy mother! I would never this and that......." posts. Fine. We're all great mothers and we're pissed. Got it. What gets me is the push-back against posts(*ers) that present reasonable alternative explanations for TG's behavior or time line discrepancies.

Regarding this forum and SM, I agree WS is more tame but it also is true some SM fodder has made its way in to these threads albeit to a small degree. I will say, perhaps some posts have gone unnoticed.

It seems it is suggested in the post that LE would refrain from doing anything to squelch an unruly community if they believe a person is a suspect, is considered a POI or is to be charged with a crime? Or is it the belief that LE relies on pressure from the community to badger and crack 'unnamed but assumed' suspects and POIs? Pass out the verbal hoses? To a small degree, that wreaks of summer movie scripting. ;-)

A review of the police presence at JJR's arraignment hearing "speaks volumes" of their professionalism. Yes, they protect even the held-without-bond, charged-as-virtually-guilty. Nine officers in the courtroom during the arraignment hearing. Why would we believe LE would not protect the unnamed, innocent-until-proven-guilty because they *think* they might be guilty? If such LE exist, they no longer deserve to wear the uniform.


ETA: re:, she seems to be enjoying life even more now

I accept that as an observation. Some people break down and become virtually incapacitated. Some people grieve "by the book" and present with 'acceptable' show. And some people might indulge in 'grieving' and feel-good behavior. It appears TG is built that way. Perhaps over the years she has built a wall of self-preservation (out of necessity?) that shows out in mysterious ways but for her it is necessary for to maintain sanity in a tragic he//ish world. I might suggest there is no need to point out such behavior is self-centered and self-serving ..I agree.

Let me be clear: I maintain a sympathy and respect for parents who have lost a child to murder not of their own doing. I was just not aware Websleuths was also a therapy forum. There are two family tragedies I deal with on a daily basis (24 years now) and although I grieve to this day I thankfully have the ability to deal without becoming emotional and experiencing PTSD symptoms. I still am learning not everyone is as 'fortunate', for lack of a better word. I strive to exclude *victim emotion* from *sleuthing* ... it's just my way.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Besides JJR claiming to having been getting high on meth in the house previous to Isabella's disappearance ...has LE discovered and reported *evidence* of drug use attributed to TG, RF, GM and / or the other adults in the house that evening?

If not, why does it appear (in these threads) to be 'assumed' to be true?

Is it because of the reservoir of truth we refer to as "SM", or have I missed something? :thinking:

 

[Ontario Mom]

while he didn't deny - he didn't confess either.......possible that he just can't remember ((not taking sides here)) <-------is it possible that smoking meth messes up your memory?? I really don't know

Yes, yes it can. To the point that you can't differentiate between what you think you were doing that day, and what everyone else says you were doing that day. For some, the longer they do it the worse the effects are. Some never "come down" even if they've been off meth for years. It can cause permanent brain damage.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Arraignment document:

http://www.mohavecourts.com/highprofile/Rector/1193-Arraignment9192014.pdf

"Discussion ensues as to other cases pending, discovery and possible enhancement motions."

Pending Case: shoplifting charge.
Discovery: forensics, DNA testing of clothing and scene items.
Possible Enhancement: sexual abuse (pending discovery).

 

[ChuckMaureen]

I posted this previously. All you ever wanted to know about the METH EXPERIENCE:

http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/crystalmeth/the-stages-of-the-meth-experience.html

 

[mymadori]

Besides JJR claiming to having been getting high on meth in the house previous to Isabella's disappearance ...has LE discovered and reported *evidence* of drug use attributed to TG, RF, GM and / or the other adults in the house that evening?

If not, why does it appear (in these threads) to be 'assumed' to be true?

Is it because of the reservoir of truth we refer to as "SM", or have I missed something? :thinking:

I believe the drug abuse allegations for three reasons. 1-SM. 2-TG's own posts on her FB... and 3- by far the most important -criminal records that are public for both TG and RF.

 

[vasportsmom]

Surely Tania is fine with the discussion that has taken place here. I know that she has made attempts to join in on many social media sites and I think that is wonderful. Unkind things have been said about her, there is no denying that, but those things were said with the safety of her other children in mind and I imagine that she appreciates that. Wouldn't any good mother? When tragedy strikes it is often hard for those closest to it to see the big picture but those of us unhindered by grief, blame and drug hazes can be very valuable. We have offered many good suggestions here for going forward, like moving friends addicted to meth into a home with children is a very bad idea, and I'm sure that Tania will appreciate our concern and advice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[newone]

Yes, yes it can. To the point that you can't differentiate between what you think you were doing that day, and what everyone else says you were doing that day. For some, the longer they do it the worse the effects are. Some never "come down" even if they've been off meth for years. It can cause permanent brain damage.

Thank you......giving some ''wiggle room'' to the accused, I was curious if there was even a remote possibility that there was a ''blackout'' effect that reasonably could explain that he was not ''capable'' of accounting for his actions before being picked up by LE....perhaps by the time he was doing his switcheroo at Walmart the effects were wearing off KWIM...he could explain that part but not what he had been doing earlier? due to heavy intoxication.

MOO -- just spec on my part

 

[Ontario Mom]

I've had it... :thinking:

I completely understand what you're saying. I will go one step further and say that YES, TG is not directly (from what we know, anyway) responsible for the death of Bella. She is however, 100% indirectly responsible for surrounding & exposing those innocent & defenseless children to people she knew explicitly were violent, perverted, liars, con-men/women, frauds, drug users, drug dealers, etc. She upped the risk-factor by her lifestyle choice, and Bella paid the ultimate price for it.

Public, criminal records (hers and those she associated with) prove this beyond any shadow of a doubt.

 

[Ontario Mom]

It's possible ( probable?) there are other inmates inside that are family friends/ acquaintances to the victim and her family. jmoo

Probable, yes, if local Bullhead City msm crime reports are to be believed. Run a search of drug busts for the last 6 months and cross ref those names with TG or RF's friends on their SM accounts and you'll see for yourself the high probability factor. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see who is connected to who, and how. It's exactly the same scenario in any drug culture in any town/city.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

I believe the drug abuse allegations for three reasons. 1-SM. 2-TG's own posts on her FB... and 3- by far the most important -criminal records that are public for both TG and RF.

Operative phrase: "has LE discovered and reported *evidence* of drug use attributed to TG, RF, GM and / or the other adults in the house that evening?".

Any evidence as of yet?