Found Deceased AZ - Jerold Williams, 5, Jacob Lake, 6 Aug 2015

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Remember that back in the 19th century and earlier on, to have children of your own was seen as a way for people to ensure that they were to have help and support when they grew old, and in a society where there were more single women than men, and an environment where hard physical labour probably were needed, it makes sense in a weird way to accept polygamy as a way to see to the birth of many children within what was considered as legal marriage by the group. Today those reasons for polygamy doesn't exist anymore.

Oh, no, I totally get it... I wouldn't exist as me if there hadn't been polygamy in those days. It took me a while growing up to realize "plural wives" in relation to one's great grandparents wasn't typical. It was very normalized in the culture of my family of origin and my family cemetery is incredibly interesting to visit.

It still tends to piss me off.
 
Remember that back in the 19th century and earlier on, to have children of your own was seen as a way for people to ensure that they were to have help and support when they grew old, and in a society where there were more single women than men, and an environment where hard physical labour probably were needed, it makes sense in a weird way to accept polygamy as a way to see to the birth of many children within what was considered as legal marriage by the group. Today those reasons for polygamy doesn't exist anymore.

It's also a great way to quickly build up membership in one's cult, if one were so inclined. And if one happened to fancy young girls and have the wacky charisma to pull it off, well then you got yourself a major religion a couple generations later.

If one's intentions were nefarious, of course....all hypothetical wink wink.
 
Remember that back in the 19th century and earlier on, to have children of your own was seen as a way for people to ensure that they were to have help and support when they grew old, and in a society where there were more single women than men, and an environment where hard physical labour probably were needed, it makes sense in a weird way to accept polygamy as a way to see to the birth of many children within what was considered as legal marriage by the group. Today those reasons for polygamy doesn't exist anymore.

I had never thought of it that way. At a certain level I can see that it made sense "back in the day"....but it doesn't now.
 
I had never thought of it that way. At a certain level I can see that it made sense "back in the day"....but it doesn't now.
It's been seen as a reason for polygamy in many cultures, for example Islam, where many men died young due to wars and fighting, and remember the Bible and the story about Jacob, Rachel and Leah. The women's father wanted both of his daughters safely married.
 
I think that's a fallacy. 1 in 4 women died in childbirth. In Rome (the city), men were 10 times more numerous than women. I don't know of any period in which women were more abundant than men, except for today.
 
I think that's a fallacy. 1 in 4 women died in childbirth. In Rome (the city), men were 10 times more numerous than women. I don't know of any period in which women were more abundant than men, except for today.
Today is the first time in Sweden when there are more men than women, and a search in Swedish church books shows that there were a female surplus of up to 13% during the period between 1750 and 1850, and earlier on, during the 17th and early 18th century, the surplus was even larger, in some villages there were twice as many women as men. During the 1890ies the female surplus in Sweden was 150.000 women. http://fof.se/tidning/2015/6/artikel/nu-ar-mannen-fler-kvinnorna One reason for the female surplus in Sweden during the 17th and 18th century was that Sweden was involved in wars on the continent and later on in Russia. Young men were conscripted and left Sweden while the women stayed, and many of the men never came back, they died or became prisoners of war in foreign countries. The same story is true for many other countries that has been involved in wars on foreign ground, take all those soldiers Napoleon took with him to war, in antiquity there were Alexander and his men marching east, as well as the crusaders later on.

Yes, it's true that many women died in childbirth, but very often the widowers remarried, it can be considered as a kind of polygamy, even if there isn't more than one wife at the time.

As for Rome, when in history were there ten times as many men as women there? Of those men, how many were soldiers and how many were slaves, and later on how many were priests? Not all men were able or permitted to marry, and it wasn't always that men and women were at the same places. If there is a surplus of men in one area, there is most likely a surplus of women somewhere else.
 
Remember that back in the 19th century and earlier on, to have children of your own was seen as a way for people to ensure that they were to have help and support when they grew old, and in a society where there were more single women than men, and an environment where hard physical labour probably were needed, it makes sense in a weird way to accept polygamy as a way to see to the birth of many children within what was considered as legal marriage by the group. Today those reasons for polygamy doesn't exist anymore.

In the 1800s, when the LDS church was establishing itself, polygamy was NOT standard practice and socially accepted. The practice of polygamy is the primary reason members of the LDS church were ostracized and pushed west.

Polygamy has only been accepted in a few specific and limited cultures.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
In the 1800s, when the LDS church was establishing itself, polygamy was NOT standard practice and socially accepted. The practice of polygamy is the primary reason members of the LDS church were ostracized and pushed west.
I didn't imply that polygamy was socially accepted in general, I wrote:
it makes sense in a weird way to accept polygamy as a way to see to the birth of many children within what was considered as legal marriage by the group.
and the group in this case being the members of the LDS church.
 
I know it's been a while but I ran across a long article today, published on November 1, 2015, that sheds a little more light on the day Jerold went missing. It was linked in another article I found and, well, I thought some of you who followed Jerold's story would like to know...

His father, Colorado City, Ariz., Mayor Joseph Steed Allred, was speaking with a sheriff's detective, though Allred was reluctant to let deputies into his home.
...
Allred and his family were camping about 75 miles southeast of Colorado City in what appears to have been a pullout spot along a Forest Service road. The adults later would tell deputies they were camping and picking raspberries. One deputy counted Allred, seven women and 27 children at the camp. Jerold would have been No. 28.

About 2:30 p.m. on Aug. 6, Jerold's mother, Julia Williams, took her son and three other children to a small pond about 100 to 200 yards away from camp.

The last person to see Jerold was apparently a 9-year-old girl, though the reports don't make her story clear. The reports say Williams was walking with the other two children when the 9-year-old came running up saying Jerold was lost.

In a recent interview, Coconino County sheriff's Sgt. Aaron Dick said he was told Jerold chased a grasshopper.

The mother told Allred their son was missing and the group began searching. After three to four hours, according to the sheriff's reports, the mother and father drove until they could make a phone call to the sheriff's office asking for help.

Also that morning, a sheriff's deputy tried to interview the 26-year-old Williams. The deputy's report notes Allred was reluctant to let her speak, but ultimately agreed.

Allred has long been protective of Williams. According to court documents filed in federal courts in Arizona, Allred married her in 2004 or 2005, when Williams was 15. In an October 2005 letter Williams sent to Jeffs that was intercepted by law enforcement, Allred included a photograph of his family, but said he was destroying the digital copies because Williams, then age 16, was in the photo. Federal documents say Williams was 17 when she gave birth.
...
In letters intercepted by law enforcement in their pursuit of Jeffs, Allred pledges to serve Jeffs through positions in local government. Allred also asked Jeffs what he wanted done with money from a water utility and whether Allred should keep spending the money on his own family.


http://www.sltrib.com/news/3090515-155/police-flds-church-members-provided-both?fullpage=1

That's all I can link here due to copyright. Interesting that Jerold's father was at the campsite too and we never heard about it.

From the other article:

Despite all of the seemingly obstructionist moves by Allred, Carlisle doubts more openness would have helped them find the boy any faster.

He notes the search area was rugged and remote. The weather was rainy and cold and the window of time in which rescuers could have found Jerold and brought him to safety was very narrow.


http://knpr.org/knpr/2015-11/flds-members-provided-help-mostly-hurt-efforts-missing-boy-case

IMO the only thing that might have made a difference is the several hour delay before calling LE but even then who knows?

RIP little one... :rose:
 
Maybe JSA didn't think they would find little Jerold. JMO

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ldale-utah-flds-trial-joseph-allred/80073736/
Joseph Steed Allred, mayor of Colorado City, Ariz., refused to answer the queries posed by a U.S. Department of Justice attorney in U.S. District Court in Phoenix Tuesday. Instead, he invoked his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination when asked about the town government, his membership in a church security force and his own plural marriages, including two that the Justice Department attorney alleged were to underage teenagers.
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ldale-flds-polygamous-trial-verdict/81449602/
A federal jury on Monday found that the twin border towns of Colorado City, Ariz., and Hildale, Utah, violated the constitutional rights of certain residents when they functioned as agents of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a polygamous sect whose members comprise the bulk of the population of both towns.
 
I would guess the child born in 2007 was an older siblings of Jerold (who is said to be 5 in all news articles about him as far as I can tell.)

Or a cover up due to the legal proceedings against him. Three years older, wife and son would make it legal. You could be right, I'll have to see if I can find if he had any older siblings.
 
Based on photos, he definitely looked 5 to me. Not 8.

I am pretty sure most FLDS families are quite large. I'm sure he had some siblings. And many half siblings as well.
 
I would guess the child born in 2007 was an older siblings of Jerold (who is said to be 5 in all news articles about him as far as I can tell.)

Well, it does say she took her "son" and three other children, no mention of a sibling. And the article goes on to say
http://www.sltrib.com/home/3090515-155/police-flds-church-members-provided-both

" According to court documents filed in federal courts in Arizona, Allred married her in 2004 or 2005 when Williams was 15. "

And this:

"Federal documents say Williams was 17 when she gave birth".
 
The article reads gave birth to YOUR son, not A son. or, your oldest son. Article published in Feb of 2016, so in context "gave birth to YOUR son" implies the child was Allred's and William's only son. They obviously did not have a birth certificate to refer to, and one would have to wonder why not?
 
Based on photos, he definitely looked 5 to me. Not 8.

I am pretty sure most FLDS families are quite large. I'm sure he had some siblings. And many half siblings as well.
Yes, the families are quite large, but often the children are quite small due to birth defects and genetic abnormalities.
 
The article reads gave birth to YOUR son, not A son. or, your oldest son. Article published in Feb of 2016, so in context "gave birth to YOUR son" implies the child was Allred's and William's only son. They obviously did not have a birth certificate to refer to, and one would have to wonder why not?

"gave birth to YOUR son"

what article is this quote from? i searched the articles linked here and didnt find it.
 

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