AZ AZ - Robert William "Bobby" Fisher, Scottsdale, Apr 2001 *FBI Ten Most Wanted*

[PommyMommy]

Family Annihilators...

August 21, 2018
When people kill close relatives: Explaining 'family annihilators'
Family annihilators "are driven to kill their family for a number of reasons," Garrett said. "Many times it's for financial problems. And the belief is that men, in particular, will kill their family because they have lost their ability to support them. And it gets into the male ego identity.

"Losing identity is the key component here.”

Family annihilators don't typically think through the end result -- potentially being arrested -- instead focusing on "the immediate need and gain of the moment," Garrett said.

But "family annihilators are never spontaneous," he said, adding that the crimes are premeditated and build up over week or months. In a vast majority of family annihilation cases, Garrett said, the suspect either commits suicide or confesses.

[...]

AUG 15, 2013
“Family Annihilators”: Understanding What Drives Fathers to Kill | TIME.com
The picture that emerged shows that men who kill their families were most likely to commit their crimes on Sundays and in August, times when children are typically out of school. The most common method was stabbing; the second was carbon monoxide poisoning. More than half of the men were in their 30s and more than 80% committed or tried to commit suicide after killing their children. While previous research found that “annihilators” are often characterized by failure, most of the men in the current sample were employed — and had jobs ranging from surgeon to librarian to taxi driver.

Yardley and her team deduced a primary motive for each father’s actions; among the immediate answers to why they did what they did, family breakup was the most common, ahead of financial difficulties and “honor killings,” in which “the father was reported to have felt shamed by the actions of his family.” The most unifying feature among the 59 killers was a perceived threat to their masculinity and a desire to exert power or control. “The family is in a very precarious position,” Yardley says. “Should ‘the family’ as he knows it change due to internal or external factors, this has serious implications for his sense of self.”

 

[PommyMommy]

A couple more.

APR 20, 2009, Updated FEB 7, 2012
Experts have profile of fathers who kill family
In general, experts say men who do this tend to be in their mid-30s to middle-aged, and to have been depressed or frustrated for a long time, or to suffer from mental illness, which may have gone undiagnosed.

They tend to fall into one of two categories: angry at their partners and seeking revenge, or hopeless and despondent and believing their family is better off dead.

Both types are usually socially isolated, with little or no support system. And they may feel that as head of the family, they have control over the lives of members.

“For many family annihilators, the act of murder is a way of re-establishing control that he feels he has lost over the family,” said Jack Levin, professor of sociology and criminology at Northeastern University in Boston.

Typically, a loss of some kind — such as a job or a wife — triggers the violence.

AUG 15, 2013
Characteristics of family killers revealed: The male dominated crime most common in August
81% of the men attempted suicide after the act, which refutes the traditional idea that family annihilators may force the police to shoot them, as is common with spree murderers. There were no recorded cases of stand-offs with the law.

Also refuted is the idea that murderers may be unhappy or frustrated men with a long life history of failure. Some had been highly successful in their careers before the murder. 71% were employed, with occupations ranged from surgeons and marketing executives, to postmen, police and lorry drivers.

Stabbings and carbon monoxide poisoning were statistically the most common murder methods, while the majority of murders were found to take place in the home.

The team also considered the stated motivations of the killers, either pieced together by interviews with relatives or made apparent with suicide notes read at coroner's inquests.

Family breakup was the most common cause, accounting for 66% of cases, although this included related domestic issues such as access to children. Financial difficulties were the second most commonly cited motive; followed by honour killing and mental illness.

 

[nannymo]

If you are going to commit suicide, why take money out of the bank? I would like to know if he left any money in the bank for burial, etc.

 

[mothwings]

This picture is so disturbing (knowing what he would do soon).

 

[Sheila Terranova]

Super selfish people and sociopaths do not commit suicide. I’d be shocked if they guy did.

 

[Mostwantedposcast]

I covered the Fisher case as a local tv news reporter when it happened. I think you are spot on about the FBI believing Fisher is alive. I've been re-investigating the case for more than a year now. I found new info that Fisher never left the area and in fact lived on a ranch in northern Arizona as a ranch hand. He befriended a rancher that had no clue Fisher was a wanted man. It was a very bizarre twist in the case and seemed so simple too. Shocked me. Plus my investigation found a mysterious note at the Fisher family's gravesite.
‎Seeking Justice on Apple Podcasts

I'm currently working on this case and although old, I'd like to talk to you and hopefully trade some info

 

[dotr]

Thinking that some clues about RF might be found by learning more about his affair.
What type of person was she, what did she look like, did RF express any unusual sexual interests?
Any chance he was secretly into bdsm type activities? Grew a beard, became a 'bear'' (aka gay serial killer Bruce McArthur) and hanging out in that milieu?
imo, speculation.
https://www.abc15.com/news/region-n...her-the-man-at-the-center-of-a-deadly-mystery
''According to interviews compiled in the Scottsdale police report, Fisher had admitted to an affair roughly two years before the fire. Fisher was kicked out of the house, but he and Mary ultimately reconciled and continued their rocky relationship, according to the police report.''

 

[detective_kenzie3]

Thinking that some clues about RF might be found by learning more about his affair.
What type of person was she, what did she look like, did RF express any unusual sexual interests?
Any chance he was secretly into bdsm type activities? Grew a beard, became a 'bear'' (aka gay serial killer Bruce McArthur) and hanging out in that milieu?
imo, speculation.
https://www.abc15.com/news/region-n...her-the-man-at-the-center-of-a-deadly-mystery
''According to interviews compiled in the Scottsdale police report, Fisher had admitted to an affair roughly two years before the fire. Fisher was kicked out of the house, but he and Mary ultimately reconciled and continued their rocky relationship, according to the police report.''

Reports state also that Robert was a active outdoors person, I can totally see him moving to Payson, Happy Jack or places up north and starting a whole new life there. I still think he is here (not knowing anything just from my intuition) we just have to get this case some attention all over that way we can find this horrible person!!!

 

[JJ Ray]

I used to have your view- but then this well publicized fugitive with alot more acculuratization issues than BK ever had surfaces in small town Texas (and pretty close to urban Texas where he committed his crime. Granted, Said was being sheltered by relatives, but I imagine that he was getting out and not living like a cloistered nun: FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitive Yaser Abdel Said Now in Custody | Federal Bureau of Investigation

In the end, most people are not avid websleuth fans and a good many don't watch the nightly news. There can be a difference between being 'noticed' and being 'recognized'. Likewise, the totality of the area could well facilitate the ability of someone acculturated to the life style to disappear:

- BF lives and works on an isolated ranch. The work mainly consists of assisting an elderly rancher who leases government land for a small cattle operation. BF is his only employee. The elderly rancher watches little television and likes BF's company. BF is paid in board, beef and a little cash from the modest cattle sales.

- BF rarely leaves the ranch. When he does, it is to buy groceries / supplies / gas at an isolated store where people stocking up on large quantities of grossly over priced groceries are common. None of the few employees are big news watchers and have little interest in events outside of *advertiser censored* county.

- The area also has a privacy culture. This does not mean that murders or any criminals are sheltered. Rather, it means that it is impolite to ask even mildy prying questions about somebody who works hard and that well, locally, has not caused any trouble.

In short, once accepted into the area as a "good cowboy" until demonstrated otherwise, BK's biggest danger might be getting tempted to go to a local bar too often and getting recognized by somebody off the interstate.

I just thought of something concerning the ranch hand theory. While he loved hunting and was an avid outdoorsman, his employment history doesn't lend itself to any knowledge of farming or ranching. I mean I understand taking any labor job to get by, but something feels off about that. Living off the land in isolation (except for getting staples seems more up his alley) except for the fact he wouldn't have a sexual outlet. So I'm thinking small town outskirts but with the same general dynamics, valuing privacy, becomes known as a good guy/one of us. But still close to mountains...not a beach guy....MOO.

 

[JJ Ray]

Maybe not as a respiratory specialist, but I could envision RF working in a low-level medical job that doesn't require credentialing or that has a fairly easy credential to obtain (like a medical assistant or unit clerk). The more I think about it, the more I have difficulty imagining him in a patient-facing role. It doesn't seem to fit with what we know about his personality to begin with, and I can't imagine that it would be a wise choice for a fugitive.

I even thought vet tech....

 

[JJ Ray]

I just don’t think he could be invisible in Mexico this long.
He was seen leaving a nearby cafe with a woman around the time his vehicle and dog were found. I don’t believe he is or was ever in the area after that. My mind keeps going back to that guy in Canada. I know the LE said it wasn’t him, but I can’t get past it. I wish I knew more about that guy.

Sonora/Chihuahua has the Sierra Madre mountains for hunting. Plenty of small towns with a smattering of americans (or Mormon/Menonite descendants that are white). Plenty of easy to get painkillers.

 

[JJ Ray]

Hello
This is the most dedicated thread on this guy I have ever seen. Congratulations and I think it is pommy mommy? The police report, unbelievable. Very good job.

Ok so here's some of my ideas from the last 4 months of reviewing this case.

1. If you starved yourself on purpose how much could he have changed his appearance?
2. After 20 years how can we be made to think his appearance is the key to finding him?
3. If someone wrote a detailed account of RWF, not his crimes but as much data on his life as possible, do you think there could be a new way to identify him?
4. If this guy has evaded capture for so long why stop at mexico, this guy had 3 professions before he hit 40, he was not afraid to step into an unknown.
5. If the FBI listed all they knew about you and all you had to do to was change those parts of you, you might start smoking instead of chewing tobacco, you may never hunt or discuss hunting or the outdoors again, that may seem difficult but if you are a survivalist and that's what you need to sacrifice to survive, I think he could do it.

I just think if I was on the run for 20 years you would maybe mix up your history with a hint of truth in each lie, easier to recall, easier to appear authentic.

If this guy's got a new life somewhere maybe he has told his stories on his life and whilst they are not the same, you could find connections and with this guy's face being too generic, maybe it's the history albeit slightly skewed that could capture this guy?

20 years his face has got nowhere, no one really knows all there is to know about this guy. I think his story could be very interesting.

So my whole thought the last 10 years of this situation (I have been a Phoenix resident since 1983 and remember all to vividly this episode), is the formation of a "characteristic or pattern profile". Not a digital footprint, but if able to access enough "big data" sources one could create a profile...
for example as a jumping off point; a 60(+ or -) white male, with Brooklyn accent (not sure of age when they moved to Tucson), who has purchased x hunting rifles (winchester, remington models he formerly owned), dips Coppenhagen, and has a lower level medical or vet tech job, etc. Unlike others, I don't think people are able to change the habitual parts of themselves as easy as their name or appearance.

 

[JJ Ray]

Why? What reason would he have to fear divorce anymore than his spouse? Don’t couples typically just split assets, etc.? Jmo

Read the wikipedia page for more on this...

 

[Cryptic]

So I'm thinking small town outskirts but with the same general dynamics, valuing privacy, becomes known as a good guy/one of us.

I could see that.

There are small town employment possibilities that would appeal to an outdoors oriented fugitive, but also be low profile to the extent that contact with the general public would be limited.

Well drilling or setting up / taking down farm irrigation systems would be ideal as contact would be restricted to the other men on the work crew and perhaps being noticed in the background, but not really seen by farmers.

Night watchman could also be good providing that the employer does not require an armed guard type license. Then factor in behind scenes possibilities at the local big box store such as stocking, cleaning etc. Though he may prefer more macho type work than night stocking at Walmart, it pays and they are always hiring.

 

[Cryptic]

Sonora/Chihuahua has the Sierra Madre mountains for hunting. Plenty of small towns with a smattering of americans (or Mormon/Menonite descendants that are white). Plenty of easy to get painkillers.

I agree that Mexico is a possibility, but I am thinking that it would be more urban and deeper into the interior.

Though an outdoor setting amongst the more rural Mormons and Mennonites maybe more attractive to him, both groups are clannish and could well distant themselves from other whites who are not born into their respective group.

But..... he maybe more welcome at one of the retirement colonies in San Luis Potosi, Taxco. Perhaps he works as an English speaking "guy Friday" : driver / maintenance man / quasi security guard at a condo complex or gated community. In return, he is given a salary and perhaps more importantly, a modest on site residence?

 

[dotr]

I agree that Mexico is a possibility, but I am thinking that it would be more urban and deeper into the interior.

Though an outdoor setting amongst the more rural Mormons and Mennonites maybe more attractive to him, both groups are clannish and could well distant themselves from other whites who are not born into their respective group.

But..... he maybe more welcome at one of the retirement colonies in San Luis Potosi, Taxco. Perhaps he works as an English speaking "guy Friday" : driver / maintenance man / quasi security guard at a condo complex or gated community. In return, he is given a salary and perhaps more importantly, a modest on site residence?

Hmm i could picture him working in a maintenance / security type job where he could see the comings and goings of everyone, be a lookout (control) for the vulnerable if you will - place to stay, a community of sorts..
Reminded of the janitor, played by William Defoe (who is a good character, unlike RW) in the movie, "The Florida Project''.
Can picture RW projecting that type of persona, imo, speculation.

 

[Hockeyfan158]

So about ten days ago i had a man as my Uber driver who looked exactly like the photo of Robert Fisher if it wasn’t him it was his twin but he also had a beard he went by John and was very nice. I swear it was his exact double of what he looked like in 2001. I’ve debated on reporting it but I’m still struggling with the decision because i really don’t know if i should report it or what to say.

 

[PommyMommy]

So about ten days ago i had a man as my Uber driver who looked exactly like the photo of Robert Fisher if it wasn’t him it was his twin but he also had a beard he went by John and was very nice. I swear it was his exact double of what he looked like in 2001. I’ve debated on reporting it but I’m still struggling with the decision because i really don’t know if i should report it or what to say.

Report it. Please. MOO

 

[dotr]

So about ten days ago i had a man as my Uber driver who looked exactly like the photo of Robert Fisher if it wasn’t him it was his twin but he also had a beard he went by John and was very nice. I swear it was his exact double of what he looked like in 2001. I’ve debated on reporting it but I’m still struggling with the decision because i really don’t know if i should report it or what to say.

Go for it, imo.
''Anyone with information in the Fisher case is urged to contact the FBI's field office in Phoenix at 623-466-1999. You can also submit anonymous tips online here.''

May 2021 rbbm.
https://www.abc15.com/news/region-n...20-years-after-scottsdale-killings-house-fire
"This is, by far, the most heinous crime that we've had here in Scottsdale," said Scottsdale Police Detective John Heinzelman.

Heinzelman has been assigned to the Robert Fisher case for the past five years, and said tips still come in to this day.''
"We still get tips on a weekly basis, if not daily basis," Heinzelman said. "The tips we get vary from any number of things, it could be something as simple as, 'I was looking at Facebook and I saw a person named Bob or Robert Fisher.'"

The FBI used special aging software to recreate multiple different looks Fisher could have adopted as he grew older
Age progression photos of Robert Fisher

 

[Hockeyfan158]

Report it. Please. MOO

Will when i get home from vacation on Monday