GUILTY AZ - Six killed, 13 injured in shooting at Gabrielle Giffords event, 8 Jan 2011 - #2

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Taminator said:
The support here in Tucson goes way beyond her political career. Gabrielle grew up in Tucson, ran her family business here and went through some of the same struggles we face here in Tucson. She represents our district, but I think first and foremost, she's a Tucsonan.
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Yeap Gabby went to high school with me at University High at Rincon. She was one year behind me. She is definitely all about this community and represented it very well, as well as any congressperson could be expected to all things considered.
 
Crazy story here related:


‘Large amount’ of weapons seized from blogger who cheered Tucson shooting


By Daniel Tencer
Thursday, January 20th, 2011 -- 6:07 pm

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A Boston-area blogger who declared "one down, 534 to go" after the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords has had his gun license pulled and a "large amount" of weapons removed his home.

Travis Corcoran, a comic book retailer in Arlington, Massachusetts, made the comment in a blog posting on January 8, the day of Giffords' shooting.

Corcoran reportedly declared on his blog, “It is absolutely, absolutely unacceptable to shoot indiscriminately. Target only politicians and their staff and leave regular citizens alone.”

The "534 to go" comment appeared to refer to the other 434 members of the US House, and the 100 US senators.

“We certainly take this as a credible threat, and credible until we prove otherwise,” Captain Robert Bongiorno of the Arlington police department told WBZ-TV.

Petitions by Change.org|Get Widget|Start a Petition »Sources told the station that 11 guns were seized from Corcoran's home after police pulled his gun license pending an investigation of his "suitability" to carry firearms. It wasn't clear if the 11 guns were the sum total of the "large amount" of weapons police said they found.

Corcoran's blog appears to have been pulled offline, or restricted to authorized users.

Arlington police have requested the aid of federal law enforcement, the Boston Globe reported.

Corcoran considers himself an "anarcho-capitalist," a radical branch of libertarianism. In a Tweet on January 8, Corcoran declared, "Not all killing is murder. US troops have killed many under Obama's presidency. Is he a murderer? Or is it legitimate in war?"

In a Twitter exchange with reporter Laura Leslie, he declared, "As per the Declaration of [Independence], when a [government] becomes destructive those ends, it may be abolished ... and the most moral approach is that which spares the maximum number of lives. Thus, assassination is a legitimate tool."

He also argued that his blog is "to some degree, political theater (with a very serious anarchocapitalist theme) and thus long-time readers understand that '1 down, X to go' COMBINED with my strong assertion is ... entirely in keeping with a liberty-loving stance..."

Corcoran runs the Heavy Ink comic book store, and the controversy surrounding his blog comment has reached the comic book business. His LinkedIn profile describes him as a software engineer educated at Cornell University.

He has 90 days to appeal the loss of his gun license in court, Arlington police said.



http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/weapons-seized-blogger-cheered-tucson-shooting/#
 
PAXIMUS said:
I too have noticed our local news keeps saying 19 shooting victims and I cant make sense of that since fuller is clearly number 20, I know David Fitzsimmons the Star political cartoonist and I am going to ask him if he can shed any light on why the media is only saying 19.

From what I can tell you personally I see no possibility at all that fuller shot himself, it is certainly intriguing to consider such in light of the media reports of 19 and not 20 but having known and worked with him in our local democratic circles I would be really shocked to learn that he would take things to that level just to get attention. I guess we cant rule it out yet but it is certainly worth looking further in to so that we can eventually put such a rumor/suggestion to rest.

Nobody likes a good conspiracy more than I do but this would seemingly go beyond the pale IMO.
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Paximus - In my little head I tried to come up with what he can possibly gain by doing something so stupid.
I had to acknowledge that he is smart and accomplished, and did a lot for Gabby in the past.
Nothing about his past seemed insane at all, and while people can be so overwhelmed and spout
out in anger, I do not see more then that.

Nop I do not believe he shot himself and went to the hospital, for attention, I do not see a win in it for him.
Nop I do not believe that he needed attention so badly that he was willing to cripple himself :no:
 
Dr. Know? said:
Oh songline, I'm just trying to absorb it all. My apologies if I sound accusatory. I just question everything until there's an answer to it hopefully, therefore my ? after my name & especially when it's in my town. xoxoxoox
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I know Doc.... but I really felt so strongly that this is not what happened to poor fuller. :(
Poor guy is a victim.
:blowkiss:
 
songline said:
Paximus - In my little head I tried to come up with what he can possibly gain by doing something so stupid.
I had to acknowledge that he is smart and accomplished, and did a lot for Gabby in the past.
Nothing about his past seemed insane at all, and while people can be so overwhelmed and spout
out in anger, I do not see more then that.

Nop I do not believe he shot himself and went to the hospital, for attention, I do not see a win in it for him.
Nop I do not believe that he needed attention so badly that he was willing to cripple himself :no:
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I agree.
 
Taminator said:
The support here in Tucson goes way beyond her political career. Gabrielle grew up in Tucson, ran her family business here and went through some of the same struggles we face here in Tucson. She represents our district, but I think first and foremost, she's a Tucsonan.
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And an Arizonan as well. From up here in Phoenix, I can't think of a single event in our state's history that has brought the people of Arizona together like this. Here in the capital, flags remain at half mast, and we have embraced the city of Tucson and erased the playful feelings of rivalry that normally exist between our cities' respective colleges. And we have embraced Gabby as the adopted daughter of our state. She is a fitting symbol of all the good things about Arizona that we love. I am very excited to see what role this courageous woman will play in the future of our state once she recovers (if that is the path she chooses).
 
PAXIMUS said:
I too have noticed our local news keeps saying 19 shooting victims and I cant make sense of that since fuller is clearly number 20, I know David Fitzsimmons the Star political cartoonist and I am going to ask him if he can shed any light on why the media is only saying 19.

From what I can tell you personally I see no possibility at all that fuller shot himself, it is certainly intriguing to consider such in light of the media reports of 19 and not 20 but having known and worked with him in our local democratic circles I would be really shocked to learn that he would take things to that level just to get attention. I guess we cant rule it out yet but it is certainly worth looking further in to so that we can eventually put such a rumor/suggestion to rest.

Nobody likes a good conspiracy more than I do but this would seemingly go beyond the pale IMO.
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Self inflicted wounds are easy to spot. They have a lot of gunpowder residue because they are shot at such close range. He'd have to be a contortionist in order to shoot himself across the back.
 
Steely Dan said:
Self inflicted wounds are easy to spot. They have a lot of gunpowder residue because they are shot at such close range. He'd have to be a contortionist in order to shoot himself across the back.
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I have no idea how we got from a strong (and IMO unfortunate) remark at a meeting by a distraught gunshot victim and friend of the primary target of the shooting to suggestions the man shot himself.

Even someone with as little gun experience as I knows that it is nearly impossible to know for sure where or how long a bullet will travel once it is fired.

Yes, I've heard of self-inflicted wounds by people (soldiers, for example) is dire straights. But just to make a political point? I don't think so.
 
A good ole LE presser would be nice about now. Refreshing to say the least.
 
I plan to post a lot more about this in time but I have been spending a little of my free time trying to come up with a defense strategy for JLL and even I, the patron saint of legal lost causes, am stumped.


Right now the best I can do is to argue "diminished capacity," or what we in the legal world refer to as "irresistible impulse," I will let some of you chew on that for a bit and post more later in the morning during breakfast.


Both of these BTW are what is called "Defense By Excuse" meaning, yes I did it but I have an excuse for why I did it and I shouldnt be held fully criminally liable for my actions because of said excuse. Basically such a defense is raised to get the death penalty off the table, not to get a walk.
 
fran said:
Just a friendly reminder. This thread is about Congresswoman Gifford and her surviving an assassination attempt. There have been some other developments that pertain to this incident and those too, may be discussed here. However, if there is any other information that has been gathered about any of the other victims and their past legal predicaments, they do not belong on this thread.

We've removed a few posts that dealt with one of the victims. There are some possible legal questions with regard to this other victim, but it is OFF TOPIC to discuss it on this thread.

IF you want to carry on a discussion about Fuller, please start a new thread in Crimes in the News. HOWEVER - if the majority of the discussion is anticipated to be about political viewpoints, then please start the thread in the Political Pavillion. Please remember, no matter where you start the thread, TOS will apply.

If you have any further questions, feel free to pm me or any of the other mods.

Thank you,
fran
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I'm bumping this post to remind everyone that this is not the place to discuss Fuller and his actions. Please stay on topic.

If you want to discuss Fuller, please start a new thread.

Thanks,

The Mods
 
PAXIMUS said:
I plan to post a lot more about this in time but I have been spending a little of my free time trying to come up with a defense strategy for JLL and even I, the patron saint of legal lost causes, am stumped.


Right now the best I can do is to argue "diminished capacity," or what we in the legal world refer to as "irresistible impulse," I will let some of you chew on that for a bit and post more later in the morning during breakfast.


Both of these BTW are what is called "Defense By Excuse" meaning, yes I did it but I have an excuse for why I did it and I shouldnt be held fully criminally liable for my actions because of said excuse. Basically such a defense is raised to get the death penalty off the table, not to get a walk.
Click to expand...

If I am a juror, you would have a tough time convincing me there was not premeditation and careful planning of this, which, to me, justifies the death penalty. That, combined with the fact it was an assassination attempt PLUS 6 other deaths and 18 attempted murders, makes it a death penalty case rather easily. He certainly seemed capable of planning this out in advance and executing it without too much trouble. You could even argue he was lying in wait, which is another DP issue, I believe.
 
Neighbors: Loughner's parents strange, but caring for son
USA Today
Saturday January 2,, 2011
By Robert Anglen, The Arizona Republic

"The enigmatic nature of Randy and Amy Loughner's lives has deepened the mystery surrounding their only son and the home where he grew up. There are flashes of perfect normalcy — a mother lauded for her work at her longtime job, parents tending their son's musical talent, a dad nursing his love of old cars.

But some saw a darker side. Neighbors describe angry complaints, perpetual privacy, a troubled teenage son on what some say was a long leash."

This is a pretty good article. Informative. More...
 
Nova said:
He took steps to conceal his crime, yes, but he also stopped to go into Safeway with the cab driver to get change, as if he somehow thought he'd be walking away after murdering a congresswoman and her supporters.

I think we have very odd ways of measuring "sanity" in this country, particularly when it comes to legal insanity.
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We do have very odd ways of measuring sanity in the country - at least in a legal sense. Someone can be completely racked by mental illness, or even psychotic, and still not meet the definition of legally insane or be able to win a not guilty be reason of insanity verdict. I think that's because most people believe that even when a person is mentally ill, there is a conscious and usually the ability to determine right from wrong, illegal from legal, etc., remains. In other words, being mentally ill is not seen by society as an excuse for the commission of a crime in most cases, even when the mental illness may have played a large part in why the crime was committed.

My dad hated the insanity defense. He thought it was an excuse. He used to say: "Why do 'crazy' people always molest little kids or hurt defenseless women? If they were really 'crazy' they'd be just as likely to assault a huge cop or a scary looking guy with a ring in nose as they would anyone else. Why does it always have to be someone defenseless they attack? Why? Because they know exactly what they are doing!"

I don't know if I agree 100% with my dad but it does make me think. And, you're right Nova, Loughner could have known, like Andrea Yates, that what he was doing was illegal, but he could have believed it was the morally right thing to do, due to his insanity. Either way, this guy should never walk free again, IMO. If he's not guilty by reason of insanity, there is just too much risk that he'll go off his meds again in the future and do something horrible once more. IMO.
 
January 22, 2011 3:47 PM
Arizona Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords is under intensive care at Texas Medical Center after a successful trip from Arizona, where a plethora of supporters gave her a farewell that brought on a tearful smile.
"She responded very well to that — smiling and even tearing a little bit," said Dr. Randall Friese, a surgeon at the University Medical Center trauma center in Tucson who traveled with Giffords. "It was very emotional and very special."
Giffords’ new team of doctors planned to start her therapy for a bullet wound to the brain immediately. After several days of evaluation, she will be sent to the center's rehabilitation hospital, TIRR Memorial Hermann.
It’s still unknown whether or not Giffords will suffer permanent disabilities. The first thing to determine is what impact her injuries have on her abilities to communicate and move.
 
gitana — There has been no indication that Loughner was previously on meds to "go off his meds again" as you say. Unless you know something no one else knows?
 
Published: Jan. 22, 2011 at 2:50 PM
HOUSTON, Jan. 22 (UPI) -- U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords "looks spectacular," one of the doctors managing her rehabilitation in Houston said.
Giffords, D-Ariz., was flown to Texas Medical Center Friday from Tucson, where she was shot Jan. 8. She will stay at the trauma center's ICU into next week for drainage of a fluid buildup in her brain and then be transferred to The Institute for Rehabilitation and Research at Memorial Hermann Hospital, the Houston Chronicle reported Saturday.
"She looks spectacular in all ways," said Dr. Dong Kim, neurosurgery chairman at the University of Texas Medical School at Houston. "She's alert, awake, calm. She looks comfortable."
 
By MARILYNN MARCHIONE
The Associated Press
Saturday, January 22, 2011; 3:08 PM
No one can predict how she will do, or what her "new normal" will be, as the hospital's CEO, Carl Josehart puts it. A CT scan on arrival showed "really minimal" injury for the mortal wound she had, said Dr. Dong Kim, neurosurgery chief for University of Texas Health Science Center. more at link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/22/AR2011012202584.html
 
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