AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #2

[OrdinaryLife]

Meaning nothing. Just thought I'd give the opposition some fodder.

LOL! Okay....

 

[MeoW333]

No it doesn't and I never said YOU offended me but it did offend me highly that some seem to think because young children are taught to hunt early they will become murderers of human beings.

imoo

I'm not one of those thinkers who think that young hunting children become murderers. I think it is random as to who becomes a murderer. While some children are born sociopaths (MRI's can actually show the impulse control part of the brain which can be underdeveloped; thus the lacking control of impulses) The boy has shown no prior signs of acting out that we know of aside from forgetting school papers and compulsive lying. I've tried to look at the case from all different angles. Now i come back from vacation and there is even more angles to look at! :waitasec:

 

[MeoW333]

Does anyone know how far the blood trail from TR went from the door towards his car?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Does anyone know how far the blood trail from TR went from the door towards his car?

I just read it and darn I forgot already. lol The trail was not one continuous blood trail but a drop of blood here and there.

But iirc it was about 24 feet.

imoo

 

[twinkiesmom]

I respectfully disagree. OBE's very rational posts are going a long way towards making this an even-handed discussion. I pray she takes no breather!

I love all the rational assumptions in this case.

Yes, it's incredibly rational to advocate an armed elementary school population, some of which will not be able to emotionally handle the taking of animal life and one of which in this case (allegedly) turned the gun on his father and roommate.

This could never happen in a hunting family because hunting families are never dysfunctional. And no child could ever use their hunting knowledge (to put an animal out of its misery with a shot to the head) on a human because hunting families are just finer people than that. And custodial fathers must be stellar parents because the mothers are obviously unfit by definition. And the size of your turnout for your funeral determines whether or not you are a a fine human being and a good parent in the privacy of your home.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Then it was not a continued flow of Mr Romans laying there?It was drops from from higher up?maybe when he was shot in his arm?

 

[Shock]

The hole in the security door appears to be much larger that a .22. Looks more like a .45. When you look at the photo remember that the scale is in cm not inches. One cm = .394 inches. The testimony says that one spent casing found at the scene was different than the others. The hole is much bigger than .22 of an inch.

 

[azmama]

Why would he have to wait on any forensic reports if he believes 100% that his client is innocent?

imoo

Honestly, I don't know, I am no expert, but I do know that lawyers in general like to see every scrap of evidence before making a move..... I see no reason to jump to a plea deal.

One could even ask why the prosecution was in such a hurry to offer a plea, possibly because most of what they do have can or will be tossed out as illegally obtained.

 

[Shock]

There were five drops of blood between the truck and where Mr. Roman collapsed.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Then it was not a continued flow of Mr Romans laying there?It was drops from from higher up?maybe when he was shot in his arm?

I think that is most of the drops, suzanne. It was probably starting to drip down his arm and off of his fingertip. It may be very small droplets.

No it wasn't a continuous trail like Mr. Romans had bled out and it trailed back that far. Usually with head and chest wounds the blood pooling will just spread out right around the body usually in the upper torso and head region.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Honestly, I don't know, I am no expert, but I do know that lawyers in general like to see every scrap of evidence before making a move..... I see no reason to jump to a plea deal.

One could even ask why the prosecution was in such a hurry to offer a plea, possibly because most of what they do have can or will be tossed out as illegally obtained.

Well I really don't know but I do think the DA has himself between a rock and a hard place. He has such heinous double murders but the defendant is a young juvenile. As he said the juvenile system was not established to handle cases like this. I would think it is almost nonexistent that a juvenile this age has killed two people. So the DA has a very unique case with a very unique defendant.

I think the main concern that the DA has is he does not want to wait to do something knowing that this kid will just walk without any Judge being able to impose mental health treatment for him and he worries if that doesn't happen then this untreated boy will be right back into society at large.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Thankyou.That's what I figured.

 

[Shock]

We don't know if the supposed drops were even blood. The testimony that causes us to discuss this came from one witness, Sgt. Rodriguez, who may have been mistaken. If it turns out that what he saw were old coffee stains, or some such, then the St Johns police theory is jeopardized. It would mean that Mr. Roman received all his wounds at the front door.

 

[Shock]

A rock and a hard place. Sounds familiar.

 

[azmama]

Well I really don't know but I do think the DA has himself between a rock and a hard place. He has such heinous double murders but the defendant is a young juvenile. As he said the juvenile system was not established to handle cases like this. I would think it is almost nonexistent that a juvenile this age has killed two people. So the DA has a very unique case with a very unique defendant.

I think the main concern that the DA has is he does not want to wait to do something knowing that this kid will just walk without any Judge being able to impose mental health treatment for him and he worries if that doesn't happen then this untreated boy will be right back into society at large.

imoo

I agree, whether guilty or not (and I so hope he did not do it), this is a huge and complicated case. I do hope this little boy gets all of the help that he needs.

I have lived here all my life and it is safe to say he may walk just because of how all of this was handled, the police forces in those tiny towns are simply not equipped to handle this. In addition, they are missing crucial evidence that was simply "lost".

As a side note as I have been reading through the threads on this case, small towns like this are almost a world unto its own. Lots of them go around with rose colored glasses on, all is not always as it seams.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

We don't know if the supposed drops were even blood. The testimony that causes us to discuss this came from one witness, Sgt. Rodriguez, who may have been mistaken. If it turns out that what he saw were old coffee stains, or some such, then the St Johns police theory is jeopardized. It would mean that Mr. Roman received all his wounds at the front door.

Oh I think police officers know blood from other stains when they see them.

I am sure the techs did their thing and the samples will belong to TRs.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree, whether guilty or not (and I so hope he did not do it), this is a huge and complicated case. I do hope this little boy gets all of the help that he needs.

I have lived here all my life and it is safe to say he may walk just because of how all of this was handled, the police forces in those tiny towns are simply not equipped to handle this. In addition, they are missing crucial evidence that was simply "lost".

As a side note as I have been reading through the threads on this case, small towns like this are almost a world unto its own. Lots of them go around with rose colored glasses on, all is not always as it seams.

Thank goodness though right away state agencies were brought in and I have no doubt that many of these forensics will be done by the FBI or other very sophisticated labs with impeccable reputations.

ETA: What evidence was lost besides the testing of GSR? I actually think that will bolster the credibility of LE that they did not think this boy was a suspect when all this began.
imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

QUOTE
In addition, they are missing crucial evidence that was simply "lost".

Yes,this is very disappointing and does seem to happen alot.

 

[Shock]

The search warrant (J-0102-SW-20080014) was only the 14th search warrant issued in St. Johns during the whole year of 2008 (almost 11 months). None of those warrants included a homicide. The testifying officers were physically sickened from looking at the photos (they admitted it in court). Sgt. Rodriguez didn't even recognize the brain jelly on the wall in the photos saying it was "much whiter at the time he saw it."
No, they didn't know what they were looking at. But I suspect they did the best they could with what they had to work with. They were, and remain, in way over their heads.

 

[Shock]

It wasn't up to the state agency to make an arrest. It was up the St. Johns PD.