AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #4

[christine2448]

I don't know if he used his knee to prop. Heck I don't even really know if these were the actual clothing he wore or the ones found in the trash. I am just speculating.

But it isn't impossible Salem, even, hunters, soldiers and Marines do it. They will have one of their legs tucked on the ground or hard surface and then put the other leg out to use as a gun prop to give them better control when shooting.

We will see if he has any GSR on his backside and if it is in general nondescript areas since he said he got it because the house was filled with white smoke. But if the GSR was found in the chest areas where he would hold the gun up or sleeve or cuff then to me that shows more than likely he was the shooter.

imoo

My post from the law blog was only posted for me to say that he shouldn't be tried as an adult. I think the kid did it, just agree with him not being tried as an adult.

IMO, it was physically possible for him to pull it off (based on the little bit of facts we can go on at this time)
I have very little use of my arms because of breaking my shoulders and left shoulder replacement never healed right. I know how to shoot with one hand/arm, and can even (not sure the right words, I am not a pro) take a sawed off shot gun and by leaning on the wall and using my hip, pull it then fire it. My hubby taught me how to fire his weapons with using only one hand/arm. I am 120 +/-lbs, 5 5.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I disagree. This child is not an experience shooter like a hunters, soldiers, or even Marines (Marines???).

imo

Yes, even Marines........they shoot guns too.

Even his family said he was experienced. I think they would know much more than we do. I am sure some of them even went hunting with him.

imo

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Yes, even Marines........they shoot guns too.

Even his family said he was experienced. I think they would know much more than we do. I am sure some of them even went hunting with him.

imo

I know what Marines can do. I have several in my family. 2 are overseas. Have one in the Army overseas, as well. My discussion had to do with the child being compared to the "pros". I guess I should of explained it better so it was understood child vs pro adult. I often mistake of assuming someone gets it. Meaning, my point.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

My post from the law blog was only posted for me to say that he shouldn't be tried as an adult. I think the kid did it, just agree with him not being tried as an adult.

IMO, it was physically possible for him to pull it off (based on the little bit of facts we can go on at this time)
I have very little use of my arms because of breaking my shoulders and left shoulder replacement never healed right. I know how to shoot with one hand/arm, and can even (not sure the right words, I am not a pro) take a sawed off shot gun and by leaning on the wall and using my hip, pull it then fire it. My hubby taught me how to fire his weapons with using only one hand/arm. I am 120 +/-lbs, 5 5.

I can relate Christine. I was shooting this type of weapon by the age of 7 and I was smaller in stature than this boy. It is not hard at all, in fact a youth model is specifically made to be easy for a youth to use.

I don't think he will be tried as an adult. I am not even sure if he will ever receive punishment or tried for these two murders and the victims may be denied their justice due.

I am sorry that you did not heal properly, Christine. I do think however, with your enduring spirit and determination that nothing slows you down from getting done what must be done.

imoo

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes, even Marines........they shoot guns too.

Even his family said he was experienced. I think they would know much more than we do. I am sure some of them even went hunting with him.

imo

Picking off a prairie dog at 50 YARDS isn't an easy task. This kid could. It's a no brainer that he could hit Tim as accurately as he did. The farthest Tim was away from him was a measly 24 feet.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Picking off a prairie dog at 50 YARDS isn't an easy task. This kid could. It's a no brainer that he could hit Tim as accurately as he did. The farthest Tim was away from him was a measly 24 feet.

Yep, I agree.

Not only are the prairie dogs much, much, father away when shot, they are small and much quicker than a human being.

Takes no skill to kill a much bigger target that was within feet of them.

imoo

 

[fran]

Yep. 2007...

Vince should have been more careful who he let live around his family. It seems it may have cost him his life.

Live by the sword, die by the sword. Or, as simple as drugs kill.

JMHO
fran

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Vince should have been more careful who he let live around his family. It seems it may have cost him his life.

Live by the sword, die by the sword. Or, as simple as drugs kill.

JMHO
fran

Where does it even say that Vincent knew about any drugs. What drug sword did he live by?

It seems that home was free of drugs. The boy thinks even people that smoke cigarettes and play loud music are bad.

imoo

 

[fran]

Where does it even say that Vincent knew about any drugs. What drug sword did he live by?

It seems that home was free of drugs. The boy thinks even people that smoke cigarettes and play loud music are bad.

imoo

Well, we KNOW that Tim was a drug dealer and we KNOW that he used drugs. Perhaps Vince should have checked Tim's background before letting him live in his home with his wife and child.

We know the house was 'drug free' by the time LE did a SW, but who knows if it was before Tim and Vince were murdered.

Gosh, I wonder if St. John's PD checked for any false paneling in the back of Tim's truck for his stash? :waitasec:

Nahhhh..........that's asking too much,.............a REAL police investigation.

JMHO
fran

 

[Linda7NJ]

"Sources close to the investigation confirm that a change of plea hearing has been scheduled for next Thursday.

Attorney Tim Eckstein who is not associated with this case said a change of plea hearing is usually scheduled when the court believes a plea deal is likely."

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/no...EsJmNmCsA.cspx

 

[OrdinaryLife]

"Sources close to the investigation confirm that a change of plea hearing has been scheduled for next Thursday.

Attorney Tim Eckstein who is not associated with this case said a change of plea hearing is usually scheduled when the court believes a plea deal is likely."

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/no...EsJmNmCsA.cspx

Well, it will be interesting to see what the real deal is vs speculation made by someone who is not part of this case. Not going to make any assumptions on any level. None of us know what this could mean. There are many possibilities. We shall see.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

"Sources close to the investigation confirm that a change of plea hearing has been scheduled for next Thursday.
Attorney Tim Eckstein who is not associated with this case said a change of plea hearing is usually scheduled when the court believes a plea deal is likely."

[/B]http://www.abc15.com/content/news/no...EsJmNmCsA.cspx

WOW! Well I always expected once the evidence came in that there would be a plea deal.

Sure would like to know what was in the last three page DPS report that the DA handed over last, wouldn't you?

Maybe there will be some semblance of justice for these two victims, after all.

I have some hope now that some kind of justice will be served and this boy will be mandated to get extensive mental treatment.

imoo

 

[SoobsinMI]

FWIW, I'm still reading the linked document. I believe I may have a few comments when I'm done. If you're interested, this should take a while to go over,...............INTERESTING STUFF!

Just sayin'
fran


http://www.november2008stjohnsdoubl...braryManager/upload/dps binders 2 red (1).pdf

ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY

I'm only on page 22 of the document, and already it isn't looking very good for Mr. Romans. So much for the "20 year ago drug bust."

 

[Linda7NJ]

Well, it will be interesting to see what the real deal is vs speculation made by someone who is not part of this case. Not going to make any assumptions on any level. None of us know what this could mean. There are many possibilities. We shall see.

Many possibilities? I disagree.

The kid plead "not guilty" to two counts of murder in the first degree.

A change of plea means exactly that....he is going to plead guilty to a lesser charge in exchange for some modification in his sentence. IMO It's the only thing it CAN mean.

If I were the prosecutor, I'd demand allocution by the kid as a condition of the plea agreement.

 

[Linda7NJ]

WOW! Well I always expected once the evidence came in that there would be a plea deal.

Sure would like to know what was in the last three page DPS report that the DA handed over last, wouldn't you?

Maybe there will be some semblance of justice for these two victims, after all.

I have some hope now that some kind of justice will be served and this boy will be mandated to get extensive mental treatment.

imoo

Oh, I ABSOLUTELY believe whatever was in those last three DPS report pages is forcing this plea deal!

Like we always thought, the boy did it and the forensics would prove it along with the timeline.

I am now somewhat hopeful there will be some form of justice too!

imo

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Many possibilities? I disagree.

The kid plead "not guilty" to two counts of murder in the first degree.

A change of plea means exactly that....he is going to plead guilty to a lesser charge in exchange for some modification in his sentence. IMO It's the only thing it CAN mean.

If I were the prosecutor, I'd demand allocution by the kid as a condition of the plea agreement.

In your opinion. I rather wait for the outcome vs speculating on something we have no idea is about. For either side given what we have been allowed to know due to gag order. I've read many transcripts. I will not jump to any conclusions.

It just keeps on coming with released LE documents. Some we can read here as a link and some that we cannot link due to another website/cost that they pay for documents on their site. I won't name that site, but I'm sure you are familiar with it and understand the why's links cannot be made, hence discussion further on some topics is moot.

There is so much more to this story than I thought.

 

[Linda7NJ]

In your opinion. I rather wait for the outcome vs speculating on something we have no idea is about. For either side given what we have been allowed to know due to gag order. I've read many transcripts. I will not jump to any conclusions.

It just keeps on coming with released LE documents. Some we can read here as a link and some that we cannot link due to another website/cost that they pay for documents on their site. I won't name that site, but I'm sure you are familiar with it and understand the why's links cannot be made, hence discussion further on some topics is moot.

There is so much more to this story than I thought.

If you want a direct link to the prosecutions website for all the records available all you have to do is fax over a request for public records. They will e-mail you the link & password to view them all. It's free.

 

[SoobsinMI]

Well, we know that a plea deal was offered by prosecution, once, already. My guess is that if no jail time is required, the defense will agree to it. What have they got to lose? The child is already out on furlough with his mother, and REMAINS on furlough. If he pleads as a juvenile, with no incarceration, he has lost nothing, his file will be sealed as an adult, and he can remain with his mother. And, the court action is dismissed.

If in fact, the deal includes no jail time, I'm thinking that is not much of a "deal" for the prosecution.

http://www.kpho.com/news/18702941/detail.html

A 9-year-old boy charged with killing his father and another man is offered a plea deal that would spare him any jail time, the boy's attorney said Thursday.The boy still must accept the deal, said defense attorney Benjamin Brewer.

The accused killer is scheduled for a change of plea hearing on Feb. 19.

Brewer did not divulge details of the deal

 

[Linda7NJ]

Well, we know that a plea deal was offered by prosecution, once, already. My guess is that if no jail time is required, the defense will agree to it. What have they got to lose? The child is already out on furlough with his mother, and REMAINS on furlough. If he pleads as a juvenile, with no incarceration, he has lost nothing, his file will be sealed as an adult, and he can remain with his mother. And, the court action is dismissed.

If in fact, the deal includes no jail time, I'm thinking that is not much of a "deal" for the prosecution.

http://www.kpho.com/news/18702941/detail.html

Jail time is quite different than a residential treatment facility. I think he'll be shipping off to one soon. Lord knows he needs it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Many possibilities? I disagree.

The kid plead "not guilty" to two counts of murder in the first degree.

A change of plea means exactly that....he is going to plead guilty to a lesser charge in exchange for some modification in his sentence. IMO It's the only thing it CAN mean.

If I were the prosecutor, I'd demand allocution by the kid as a condition of the plea agreement.

Exactly. He had plead NOT GUILTY now his attorney has set up a hearing to change the plea. I have always felt JR knew it would come down to this.

He could plead Guilty on both charges but get the recommended time the DA is willing to offer to settle both cases if the Judge agrees.

No matter how this ends, I think the people of St. John and the victims's families deserve to know who did these crimes and see them held accountable. A plea will give them that peace.

If the plea is accepted I sure hope that it includes mandatory mental health treatment. He needs to be rehabilitate as much as humanely possible so that society will not hear of him again when he is let out in our society.

imoo