Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

[SnooperDuper]

Wow, could be over in a week then, if the defence chooses to call nobody.

They already have a plan for the whole trial and if they figured it would take 9 weeks it will take that. I guess the 2 defence teams have a lot of people they want to call to vouch for them.

 

[Georgeo]

Well SL doesn't seem to be doing to badly for himself. He's going to make enough money to live a nice life, surely. He's stable, highly educated, ambitious, drug free, and gave LB a dog which requires stability and responsibility...that's the sort of lifestyle he sees for himself. SL is on the high road.

With DM IMO it was all bout the fast lifestyle. LB had a pretty impossible dream to become an actress and this I think sucked her into the lifestyle of schmoozing at bars, and drugs.

Once you add drugs into the equation I think your good judgement can become...uh, somewhat relaxed? Reduced? Being a high end escort probably wasn't much different than LB's general fast lifestyle with DM and his entourage except that she got paid....in part with more drugs to reinforce the cycle.

DM gave LB drugs and used LB for sex and then she fought over him with her best friends.

LB became depressed and despondent and uninterested in doing anything to help herself and when she did react she lashed out. Was she really crazy or was she having a totally sane reaction to the lifestyle she was living and the people around her?

If she cut her two "friends" and DM out of the picture and gave up on the actress dream and stayed away from the drugs and alcohol, wouldn't a certain amount of sanity have returned?

The problem IMO was that she was going to the doctor and they were giving her even more mind-altering drugs to go with her street drugs and doing nothing to suggest that her lifestyle was hurting her.

A doctor should have suggested to her that she was living a faster lifestyle than she could handle and referred her to rehab, IMO.

An adult cannot be forced to go to rehab. If in denial, she certainly would have refused rehab anyway.

 

[winter2017]

IT might have been more from that , not just the lifestyle but she knew some sinister things about DM. I don't think she would have not known he was involved in illegal things. She hung around the group of them all involved in the robberies , being lookouts etc. I doubt she did not know some very damning things about DM. She could have been a threat to him. Who knows he may have even discussed killing his father with this group present and she was there. DM was so sleazy so for her to go to the next level and become an escort is not surprising she was involved with a very sleazy person. already ,

 

[winter2017]

It is all a joke anyway, MS and DM should have admitted guilt and get it over with. Instead of wasting taxpayer money and continue the circus. It is painful to even listen to all this crap all their stupidity etc, and bad rap songs and finding out more about these morons , if it means another M! conviction I guess that is a good thing.

 

[winter2017]

Yeah the more pain the better. CN has been charged and I know about civil suits I have been in some. The burden of proof is lower from a criminal trial. Both CN and the other two have been convicted so believe that is automatic win in a civil case. IF the two are convicted in this case then the Babcock family can also have a civil case. If she leaves the country all the better , good riddance, we will be better off with her in another country.

 

[SnooperDuper]

An adult cannot be forced to go to rehab. If in denial, she certainly would have refused rehab anyway.

It's just all the psychiatric drugs - LB was taking powerful sedatives like anti-psychotics and anti-anxiety medication and sleeping pills and this is just going to add to the alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, ecstacy problem not fix it.

DM and SL argued about whether she had 3 or 5 prescriptions. This poor girl was a wash in chemicals and only half of them came from the street.

It's true that rehab in Canada is 100% voluntary but why instead give someone with a drug problem more drugs?

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Wilson thinks #Babcock was on 3 kinds of meds. Anti-anxiety, Anti-psychotic, and for sleeping. He researched them on the internet.

That's some heavy-duty drugs there. I am sorry, but there was a mental health treatment fail here.

 

[gremlingrrl]

"Originally Posted by THXGuru
Can anyone tell me if the jury knows that they are convicted criminals?

Via the jury selection process, in theory those with that knowledge should have been excluded. (I don't know how that is possible in practice, all things considered.)

Within the trial itself, in front of the jurors, no mention may be made of the other cases, the convictions in the Bosma case, or the proven use of the Eliminator in another murder. It would be considered prejudicial.

 

[gremlingrrl]

It's just all the psychiatric drugs - LB was taking powerful sedatives like anti-psychotics and anti-anxiety medication and sleeping pills and this is just going to add to the alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, ecstacy problem not fix it.

DM and SL argued about whether she had 3 or 5 prescriptions. This poor girl was a wash in chemicals and only half of them came from the street.

It's true that rehab in Canada is 100% voluntary but why instead give someone with a drug problem more drugs?

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Wilson thinks #Babcock was on 3 kinds of meds. Anti-anxiety, Anti-psychotic, and for sleeping. He researched them on the internet.

That's some heavy-duty drugs there. I am sorry, but there was a mental health treatment fail here.

While it compromises effective and efficient treatment, it is not unusual for patients to hide their recreational drug use from their doctors.

Also, while I'm sure the Crown will call an expert to the stand to address the use and nature of LB's various 'scripts, IMO that's not an excessive number of pharmaceuticals. Certain anti-anxiety meds are immediate acting, and to be taken "as needed" to manage acute symptoms of an anxiety attack, while others are long-acting, and taken on a preventative basis. And then you have your non-benzo anti-anxiety/depression meds intended for long-term use. As an aside, the anti-psychotic is often used (off-label) as a sleep-aid.

 

[SnooperDuper]

While it compromises effective and efficient treatment, it is not unusual for patients to hide their recreational drug use from their doctors.

Also, while I'm sure the Crown will call an expert to the stand to address the use and nature of LB's various 'scripts, IMO that's not an excessive number of pharmaceuticals. Certain anti-anxiety meds are immediate acting, and to be taken "as needed" to manage acute symptoms of an anxiety attack, while others are long-acting, and taken on a preventative basis. And then you have your non-benzo anti-anxiety/depression meds intended for long-term use. As an aside, the anti-psychotic is often used (off-label) as a sleep-aid.

Some drugs to have fun, others to cope with the aftermath. I agree that it's not an uncommon scenario.

Do you think it's "borderline personality disorder", some sort of fundamental character flaw in LB, or an "alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, ecstacy, sleeping pill, tranquillizer, antipsychotic" problem? Or is "borderline personality disorder" just a fancy way of saying "serious drug problem"?

Colour me skeptical about some mental health treatment.

 

[Typhoo1961]

Is there any thing written that says CN is included in Sharlene s civil action ?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/bosma-lawsuit-1.3731461

 

[Typhoo1961]

Here is how pathetic some fb forums about this case are. One person made a personal attack on me because I said disparaging remarks against CN. The person is using a fake profile , which if fb knows about it will close it down and attacks me for using my real name on fb. I don't care that people use fake profiles on fb only when they are cowards like this person and make atttacks and are too much of a coward to let their identity be known. I report those fake profiles to fb. Another fb group many were using fake profiles and we reported a lot of them for same reason and their accounts were shut down. IF you are going to make a personal attack using a fake profile then be prepared to have your account shut down. I even think is was a friend of CN because they called CN a courageous young woman for testifying. like she had a choice, courageous is not a word I would ever use to describe CN.

I wouldn't be surprised if CN was using a fake profile on Facebook to keep tabs on what people are saying about her.

 

[SnooperDuper]

The other thing was LB was hitting up doctor after doctor (before she got the scripts she wanted?)

Babcock underwent a series of doctor’s appointments and medical tests that resulted in uncertainty. Friends say she told them she was diagnosed with severe depression, anxiety, borderline personality disorder and bipolar disorder. Every doctor told her something different. Some told her nothing was wrong at all.

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...ck_leaves_lingering_questions_for_police.html

...I'd add, nothing wrong with her, just with all the drugs that she was using.

 

[Tealgrove]

I'm not sure about the borderline personality disorder. I think we really need to know a LOT more about Laura to be able to even comment on that. I question it. She had a lot of recreational drugs, alcohol in the mix. That alone can change how you appear to people and create personality changes.

Any type of personality disorder is extremely difficult to treat and I'm not sure but it's a real crap shot trying to medicate for those types of disorders.

As for the anti-psychotic medication, both my sister and nephew take Seroquel for sleeping. It falls under the category of anti-psychotics. It slows down the brain, turns off thoughts and allows your brain to rest and in turn you sleep.

Laura's drug cocktails, some of which were prescribed and some of which were street drugs just wasn't a good combination.

As stated above, it is extremely common for people with mental illness to self medicate. It is probably more the norm than not.

I feel so badly for Laura. DM and MS caught her at her most vulnerable. It makes me so sad.

MOO

 

[Inspector_North]

It's revolting to think that these girls thought it was SO special to be having sex with DM, and were spatting over him, and being catty. Wow. What a great catch he was. What did he have going for him, other than his wealth? I guess he was somewhat attractive, but so was LB's bf, SL. So was money the driving force for the attraction to this psychopath? Just sick. Moo, of course.

"catty" - Sounds like a word that tries to excuse being cruel and mean spirited. Many a girl has committed suicide being the victim of "catty" bullying on the Internet.

 

[Kamille]

Some drugs to have fun, others to cope with the aftermath. I agree that it's not an uncommon scenario.

Do you think it's "borderline personality disorder", some sort of fundamental character flaw in LB, or an "alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, ecstacy, sleeping pill, tranquillizer, antipsychotic" problem? Or is "borderline personality disorder" just a fancy way of saying "serious drug problem"?

Colour me skeptical about some mental health treatment.

I'm skeptical too, only because there didn't appear to be any obvious signs or symptoms of mental health issues prior to her going to university, which itself can be very stressful and cause a lot of anxiety, getting more independence from her parents by choosing to run with a rough crowd who had access to all kinds of drugs, sex and parties through their older "mentor" DM, and then leave home with no means of support rather than continue to follow the house rules.

MOO

 

[Satchie]

The other thing was LB was hitting up doctor after doctor (before she got the scripts she wanted?)

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...ck_leaves_lingering_questions_for_police.html

...I'd add, nothing wrong with her, just with all the drugs that she was using.

It's really a chicken-egg thing: did she keep taking drugs because it felt worse when she was off them? SL described her when they first met as 'over the top bubbly', which can seem endearing but can actually be a kind of manic mind state.

I don't think we understand mental health or how to restore it, especially for young women today navigating the transition after university into 'adulthood', and all the social expections/negative connotations about becoming 'old'/anxieties that they'll make the wrong decisions and lose their chance for fame and fortune, and be trapped into becoming their parents....makes me anxious just thinking about it.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I feel so badly for Laura. DM and MS caught her at her most vulnerable.

Running with a fast crowd, doing a lot of drugs. Bullied. Falling apart, doing more (psychiatric) drugs. Girlfriends are no support. Family withdraws. SL offers dedicated support but LB's focused on "drugs and a place to stay". It's up to LB to pull herself together but she can't. For her it's become just "drugs and a place to stay".

 

[Sillybilly]

Running with a fast crowd, doing a lot of drugs. Bullied. Falling apart, doing more (psychiatric) drugs. Girlfriends are no support. Family withdraws. SL offers dedicated support but LB's focused on "drugs and a place to stay". It's up to LB to pull herself together but she can't. For her it's become just "drugs and a place to stay".

We know from various sources that Laura was looking for a place to stay, but am I correct in saying that DM was the only one who said she was wanting to get drugs from him?

 

[THXGuru]

The jury would likely not be told about their previous murder convictions out of fear that it might lead them to believe that since they already committed murder they would be more likely to be guilty in this case. That being said, given the press coverage on the TB case, I am sure that they are all well aware that both are convicted murderers.

Yes, DM certainly can testify in his own defence. Typically he would simply say his piece without being questioned. He would of course then face cross examination by the Crown.

If the they testify then I think the convictions are fair game. Agree?

 

[SnooperDuper]

We know from various sources that Laura was looking for a place to stay, but am I correct in saying that DM was the only one who said she was wanting to get drugs from him?

He said that she was looking for cocaine, and that he had given her ecstasy previously.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/former-boyfriend-slain-toronto-woman-080004984.html