Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #6

[Night_is_Mine]

You make a good argument, but Millard is crafting fiction in that letter and I'm convinced that MM isn't telling the entire truth either. From what we have heard about MM we know that she was always with Smich. In fact Smich seems to not like her socializing without him. She doesn't have a job at that point and she doesn't seem to like going home to her parents. We know she was there in the late afternoon having a bath, and we know she was there in the morning. There have been no texts released that show she was anywhere but with Smich that night.

For me it comes down to Smich being oblivious to what was going to happen that night. The fact that he is begging for food money right at the time of the crime tells me there was no plan between him and Millard in place. Maybe Smich knew that LB might eventually be murdered, but I don't think he was aware that night.

Likely the subject was never broached in court because she never heard for saw anything, or she simply didn't remember anything out of the ordinary. If the crown asks, it looks bad for them. Why did she not hear a gun? So they just don't bring it up. Or possibly she might or might not have heard something but that testimony disallowed for one reason or another. For instance, if she was passed out from using drugs at the time, is it fair for Millard to ask if she heard something? Maybe we'll find out more after the trial.

Good points. And yeah I have a feeling we'll find out more after the publication ban is lifted.

 

[Night_is_Mine]

So if MS was in on it. Wouldn't he basically have to say to her "Stay in the room and don't come out until I tell you to" ? And if he said something as such that would be pretty damming evidence. They couldn't risk MM coming out looking for them and they're in the process of murder. So if LB was in the same house at the same time as MM I find it odd they never crossed paths. Unless MS was all night with MM and DM all night with LB. (A theory the texts would actually support) in which case it would clear MS almost completely. Then agaaaaain if that were the case wouldn't Dungey ask MM "Were you all night with MS? " but he didn't.....ughhh lol

 

[Inspector_North]

What do you think some would be? Dell wanted to put it on MS in the letters (yet he made no mention of MM in them) if MS was doing coke with LB would MM take kindly to just the 2 of them at night in a room by themselves doing drugs? Plus didn't she say she never even heard nor met LB prior to the charges being laid?

It may not make much sense at this point, but you have to remember that much of the "scheming" DM was putting to ink in his letters were before he had received full disclosure of evidence. If you remember the scheme he was crafting for the TB murder, he was initially trying to blame MS and his two buddies with street names.

My guess would be that he didn't want to have MM involved because DM would rather have a single he said/he said. Once he realized that LE had determined when/where and who was there for TB evidence, he quickly told CN to forget that story about LB knowing the same would be discovered, and called it only brainstorming. If they would not have determined an approximate date of the murder, he may have stuck to his story knowing that he could say it was on date and time MM was not there. MOO

 

[winter2017]

I saw a picture of her and she looks like a very sad , pathetic person, she got a deal but she will never escape being treated with disgust by the public and I hope it tortures her. I feel sorry for her children to live with when they find out what their mother did.

And now that she's out (and further educated, and is married with children of her own), she has the luxury of threatening legal action towards the general public and media who are "infringing" on her privacy and other rights. Boo hoo. IMO the only way for justice to be served in that backwards, upside-down deal with the devil is for society to hound her for the rest of her days.

I seem to recall, more than 20 years ago, when the public was certain that as soon as she was out of prison and back in day-to-day society, she'd be, um, "removed" immediately and permanently. Nah, she gets to go about her life without even so much as the media heckling her periodically.

 

[andreww]

So if MS was in on it. Wouldn't he basically have to say to her "Stay in the room and don't come out until I tell you to" ? And if he said something as such that would be pretty damming evidence. They couldn't risk MM coming out looking for them and they're in the process of murder. So if LB was in the same house at the same time as MM I find it odd they never crossed paths. Unless MS was all night with MM and DM all night with LB. (A theory the texts would actually support) in which case it would clear MS almost completely. Then agaaaaain if that were the case wouldn't Dungey ask MM "Were you all night with MS? " but he didn't.....ughhh lol

Here's the thing, If Smich didn't have any contact with Millard that night, and he left for Kitchener the next morning without seeing Smich (evidenced by the text that he was on his way to Kitchener and would be back later that day), how would Smich know that he could start playing with the iPad mid day on 4th? Obviously there has been some communication between the two, and as Smich, a late sleeper, is unaware that Millard has left, it would suggest that they had had contact the previous evening.

 

[Satchie]

So if MS was in on it. Wouldn't he basically have to say to her "Stay in the room and don't come out until I tell you to" ? And if he said something as such that would be pretty damming evidence. They couldn't risk MM coming out looking for them and they're in the process of murder. So if LB was in the same house at the same time as MM I find it odd they never crossed paths. Unless MS was all night with MM and DM all night with LB. (A theory the texts would actually support) in which case it would clear MS almost completely. Then agaaaaain if that were the case wouldn't Dungey ask MM "Were you all night with MS? " but he didn't.....ughhh lol

I don't think she'd remember that night in particular. She can't remember the date of the incinerator test, but at least at least it was distinct and unusual so she remembered what happened.

 

[andreww]

And now that she's out (and further educated, and is married with children of her own), she has the luxury of threatening legal action towards the general public and media who are "infringing" on her privacy and other rights. Boo hoo. IMO the only way for justice to be served in that backwards, upside-down deal with the devil is for society to hound her for the rest of her days.

I seem to recall, more than 20 years ago, when the public was certain that as soon as she was out of prison and back in day-to-day society, she'd be, um, "removed" immediately and permanently. Nah, she gets to go about her life without even so much as the media heckling her periodically.

In a way she is still in prison. She moved to the Caribbean at one point and lived in anonymity for years. But reporters caught up with her, as reporters do, and she was forced to relocate. Last I heard she was back in Quebec and had once again been discovered. Thing is people don't recognize her anymore, so even if you see her you just wonder. I know she has been back home to St Catherines and has walked about town unnoticed, so its very easy for her to blend in. But every day she has to wonder who will knock on her door. And her kids are getting to the age where they will be old enough to google their names. One can only wonder how she's going to explain that.

 

[andreww]

I don't think she'd remember that night in particular. She can't remember the date of the incinerator test, but at least at least it was distinct and unusual so she remembered what happened.

I disagree. I'm sure she would remember getting the iPad and all those pictures that were taken on the 4th would be a good reminder. The thing you have to remember is that MM is not going to incriminate herself. If she was aware of something, if she overheard something or if she saw something, she could be implicated in some way. Best to say she didn't see anything. Cops have text confirmation that she was there for the burn, but again she doesn't add much information. With MM I always go back to her begging MS not to go on the TB mission. Why? He'd been on many mission prior to that. She had to know that that one was different. So in my opinion that girl knows more than she tells. Did she ever mention going on an ammo run with Millard?

 

[JPC]

I remember reading about Karla Homolka's days in prison and thinking that she had a more active life than I did in many ways. Sounded like summer camp.

She was doing her degree at the same time that I was. The only difference is that I had to get a student loan and part time job. I understand that the system needs to rehabilitate and ensure that they are turning people out after serving their sentences but I found this a bitter pill to swallow


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[andreww]

She was doing her degree at the same time that I was. The only difference is that I had to get a student loan and part time job. I understand that the system needs to rehabilitate and ensure that they are turning people out after serving their sentences but I found this a bitter pill to swallow


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Education is never a bad thing. And, she also had to pay for her education, although I'd assume her parents footed the bill. What I didn't like was the weekly pizza nights, movie nights, the garden parties and pyjama parties. Seeing Karla lying out working on her tan while I'm stuck in my office is a little hard to stomach.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I saw a picture of her and she looks like a very sad , pathetic person, she got a deal but she will never escape being treated with disgust by the public and I hope it tortures her. I feel sorry for her children to live with when they find out what their mother did.

My heart just breaks for her children. Not only will they have to learn to cope with taunts and possibly worse from other students, but I can’t imagine how they will deal with learning the truth about their Mom, the person they adore. It was so incredibly selfish, cruel and wrong-headed for her to have children, knowing what they would have to face in their lifetimes. MOO.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[JPC]

Education is never a bad thing. And, she also had to pay for her education, although I'd assume her parents footed the bill. What I didn't like was the weekly pizza nights, movie nights, the garden parties and pyjama parties. Seeing Karla lying out working on her tan while I'm stuck in my office is a little hard to stomach.

Where did you hear that she paid the bill herself or had funding from private sources? That was not my understanding at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[andreww]

Where did you hear that she paid the bill herself or had funding from private sources? That was not my understanding at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Used to belong to a group dedicated to following her and it was said there. Strange group, people were obsessed with her and following her every move. They didn't take kindly to anyone who tried to defend her in the slightest. Then Luca Magnotta joined the group and things got really weird.

But ya, no prisoners get free education, they have to pay for courses that are done through correspondence if I'm not mistaken. They obviously don't have a law school built in to the prison.

 

[JPC]

Used to belong to a group dedicated to following her and it was said there. Strange group, people were obsessed with her and following her every move. They didn't take kindly to anyone who tried to defend her in the slightest. Then Luca Magnotta joined the group and things got really weird.

But ya, no prisoners get free education, they have to pay for courses that are done through correspondence if I'm not mistaken. They obviously don't have a law school built in to the prison.

Thanks for clarifying. I can feel less bitter now : )


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[canadiangirl]

This rocket was for garbage. Then it was switched to pet cremation to justify the 15,000 expense of Eliminator.

Yes I know. No stories were ever kept straight by anyone. Bad bunch of liars imo

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

 

[canadiangirl]

DM told AM that he had a couple of jobs in Barrie. There is a zoo in Barrie and maybe a couple of giraffes needed to be cremated.

Haha that's awesome. Great post

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

 

[andreww]

Yes I know. No stories were ever kept straight by anyone. Bad bunch of liars imo

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

We all know they are lying but in theory it could have happened that way. He wants to build an incinerator for garbage but when that doesn't work he decides to put out big money for a machine to do what he wants. He then has to come up with other uses that will generate revenue to pay for it. Nonetheless, I think its pretty clear what he wanted it for.

 

[andreww]

Thanks for clarifying. I can feel less bitter now : )


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've got mixed feelings about her. On one hand she did her time, albeit with a pretty sweet deal, and maybe should be left alone. On the other hand later evidence discovered after the deal showed that she actually procured rape victims for Bernardo without any input from him. I thought that she should have been charged fully for that, but the deal was just amended to include it. The deal was necessary because it was before the tapes were recovered and cops needed a witness. How were they to know that Homolka was more a willing accomplice, possibly even an instigator, rather than a battered and abused housewife?

 

[banting]

We all know they are lying but in theory it could have happened that way. He wants to build an incinerator for garbage but when that doesn't work he decides to put out big money for a machine to do what he wants. He then has to come up with other uses that will generate revenue to pay for it. Nonetheless, I think its pretty clear what he wanted it for.

Not his big money though, so maybe he didn't have to.

Agree with your last sentence in any event.

 

[Satchie]

I've got mixed feelings about her. On one hand she did her time, albeit with a pretty sweet deal, and maybe should be left alone. On the other hand later evidence discovered after the deal showed that she actually procured rape victims for Bernardo without any input from him. I thought that she should have been charged fully for that, but the deal was just amended to include it. The deal was necessary because it was before the tapes were recovered and cops needed a witness. How were they to know that Homolka was more a willing accomplice, possibly even an instigator, rather than a battered and abused housewife?

Also, the lawyer who withheld the tapes from police all during that time, got off with barely a slap on the wrist. If the tapes had never been made, or he'd destroyed them, no one would care about Homolka. It was his hiding them and then passing them on to a more ethical lawyer that caused this endless angst about her.