Baez - Just Lost The Trial

[mydailyopinions]

Yeah, that's not good......not good at all. Savage thought the allegations might be true.

Too, Lee told him he would address the issues when the time come to address them. Savage has no reason to lie.

Wow..I'm in shock this morning..Just when you think you know this case inside out.:banghead:

 

[Pink Panther]

I think he lost the jurors when he couldn't decide when it happened:
"Early morning hours the exact time is not known...it could have been early afternoon...early morning...actually it was the early morning hours...." Sounded like he was making it up as he was going.

HUH?

That's exactly when he lost me. If KC provided this story, how could she not know when it happened! If they helped her to remember it...wouldn't this be one of the first things they would try to understand from her! He lost me right here!

moo

 

[tehcloser]

Even if it IS true and even if the DT can prove that it's true...does anyone REALLY believe this is going to make the jury look at her behavior after Caylee's death and go, "Oh, well...NOW I understand why she was watching movies and competing in Hot Body contests after her daughter drown. The girl was molested for pete's sake!"

Uh uh...not gonna happen. And JB better not count on there being SA survivors on the jury who will automatically sympathize either. I'm a survivor, and I say it's hogwash.

Just my 2 cents.

No, but I think it might make some of the jurors want a lesser sentence. And when you are talking about sexual abuse, you don't know what the juror's history is and what issues they might have that might make them do some strange things. If they bonded with her over the issue, it might be a bad thing. It's no excuse for what happened, but I think we can all agree it is a very complicated issue, and you never know how a person is going to react to it.

 

[crimesnooper]

JB had best forgo the acting classes and work on his ability to question a witness, lay a foundation, cross examine a person, object and on and on. His lack of ability in the courtroom is evident by the number of sidebars where the judge has to school him. It appears that ICA will be able to appeal any sentence based on ineffective council and we are only a week into the trial.

It is shocking how poor JB's cross exams are - frankly I wonder how the other attorneys (CM) can sit there and be part of this.

I agree totally. He is awful. Almost painful to watch.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

No, but I think it might make some of the jurors want a lesser sentence. And when you are talking about sexual abuse, you don't know what the juror's history is and what issues they might have that might make them do some strange things. If they bonded with her over the issue, it might be a bad thing. It's no excuse for what happened, but I think we can all agree it is a very complicated issue, and you never know how a person is going to react to it.

I'll give you that, Teh. But I'm also looking at that girl in court cry when he ex-boyfriend talks about their relationship. I'm watching her disolve into tears when her attorney talks about her "molestation" at the hands of her father, and I'm watching her pitch a bloody fit after CA leaves the stand. From where I'm sitting, I see a girl absolutely capable of expressing emotion. Just not emotion for the loss of her daughter.

JMO

 

[tehcloser]

I think what worries me about the alligations of sexual abuse is if one of the jurors were ever abused themselves, they would have sympathy for her. You combine that with JB and his "Casey's World" remarks, and then CA's telling just how far ICA's lies went - over and over- I don't see it as a stretch for a juror to start thinking she really did make up this fantasy world to "escape the hurt"...and bingo. JB has his 1 juror.

 

[crimesnooper]

Just wondering what I would do as a defense attorney for a client who almost 100%
of people think is guilty. Fish or cut bait? Muddy the water? Present a theory that probably can't be proven? Just play the cross examination game, present a defense
case, get famous from tv exposure, and make tons of money later from other clients?

Don't know what I'd do - that's why I'm not a defense attorney. And hopefully never a client.

I think JB could have gotten farther if he said accident and tied the hiding of the"accident" for 31 days to the family's complete dysfunction. That this was a family where no one tells the truth, image and surface emotions are everything. CA and GA have certainly provided a huge amount of information and behaviors to support this. Going for the sexual abuse I think was the line in the sand for GA and Ca. And no one is buying it.

 

[tehcloser]

I'll give you that, Teh. But I'm also looking at that girl in court cry when he ex-boyfriend talks about their relationship. I'm watching her disolve into tears when her attorney talks about her "molestation" at the hands of her father, and I'm watching her pitch a bloody fit after CA leaves the stand. From where I'm sitting, I see a girl absolutely capable of expressing emotion. Just not emotion for the loss of her daughter.

JMO

Boy do I wish the jury could have seen yesterday's fit!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hopefully it won't be the last one and at some point they will get to see "that Casey".

 

[Pink Panther]

I think what worries me about the alligations of sexual abuse is if one of the jurors were ever abused themselves, they would have sympathy for her. You combine that with JB and his "Casey's World" remarks, and then CA's telling just how far ICA's lies went - over and over- I don't see it as a stretch for a juror to start thinking she really did make up this fantasy world to "escape the hurt"...and bingo. JB has his 1 juror.

We've heard the opinion of many survivors here since JB did his opening statement and a lot of them have stated that they would never leave their child with their abuser and that they have never killed anyone as a result of being abused.

moo

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I think what worries me about the alligations of sexual abuse is if one of the jurors were ever abused themselves, they would have sympathy for her. You combine that with JB and his "Casey's World" remarks, and then CA's telling just how far ICA's lies went - over and over- I don't see it as a stretch for a juror to start thinking she really did make up this fantasy world to "escape the hurt"...and bingo. JB has his 1 juror.

On the other hand, we have the state pounding away on testimony about what a liar ICA is...ICA even bragging to ME about what a great liar she is. We hear this over and over and over...from friends to her own mother. Then we have JB making the mistake of trying to introduce this dark secret about GA that ICA confessed to TL. What does the dark secret amount to? GA disciplined ICA. Oooooh.

Baez is going to have to do ALOT better than that to make this jury buy into the molestation story. ALOT better.

JMO

 

[crimesnooper]

I'll give you that, Teh. But I'm also looking at that girl in court cry when he ex-boyfriend talks about their relationship. I'm watching her disolve into tears when her attorney talks about her "molestation" at the hands of her father, and I'm watching her pitch a bloody fit after CA leaves the stand. From where I'm sitting, I see a girl absolutely capable of expressing emotion. Just not emotion for the loss of her daughter.

JMO

When I watch ICA, I see lots of tissues, touching her face as if wiping away her tears, eyes changing..but I never see real tears or the redness that usually goes with crying. Her face color always looks normal so quickly. Even her outlburst with CA leaving the stand yesterday... I saw anger but I saw calculation. She knows when to turn it on. IMO

 

[mydailyopinions]

I'll give you that, Teh. But I'm also looking at that girl in court cry when he ex-boyfriend talks about their relationship. I'm watching her disolve into tears when her attorney talks about her "molestation" at the hands of her father, and I'm watching her pitch a bloody fit after CA leaves the stand. From where I'm sitting, I see a girl absolutely capable of expressing emotion. Just not emotion for the loss of her daughter.

JMO

I'll tell you what bothers me about this. The only reason George has been thrown into the "drowning" story, is because it can be proven that he was in the house that day. No one can prove that Lee was in the house that day. If Lee were anywhere around, it would be he the DT is going after, not George. It is just a matter of convenience.

There is no excuse for what she did and I do believe that if she is "well" enough to do all the things she was doing, plus turn on and off for this jury, she certainly cannot make this sexual thing be any kind of excuse for her lies.

Lee on the other hand, well, this to me is very disturbing. No man in their right mind would tell an FBI agent that they would address an issue later if nothing ever happened.-Unless in fact it happened. And then he denied DNA to the FBI? Who does that? So what the results were that he was not Caylee's Father! He had reason to push the matter off, and not to give DNA, and either way, for the jury this could be a huge problem. They may understand that the only reason she is going after George is because he can be proven to be there, but they may feel sorry for her too.

 

[tehcloser]

We've heard the opinion of many survivors here since JB did his opening statement and a lot of them have stated that they would never leave their child with their abuser and that they have never killed anyone as a result of being abused.

moo

Yep, but the defense is that she was not "killed", but it was an accident. All I am saying is it would not surprise me if there is 1 or possibly more than 1 juror willing - AT THIS POINT - to believe JB's nonsense. And that bugs me.

 

[mydailyopinions]

When I watch ICA, I see lots of tissues, touching her face as if wiping away her tears, eyes changing..but I never see real tears or the redness that usually goes with crying. Her face color always looks normal so quickly. Even her outlburst with CA leaving the stand yesterday... I saw anger but I saw calculation. She knows when to turn it on. IMO

The tears during the break yesterday after Cindy walked off the stand, they were real.. this is the first time in 3 years that I truly seen real tears coming from ICA.

 

[Mare10]

We've heard the opinion of many survivors here since JB did his opening statement and a lot of them have stated that they would never leave their child with their abuser and that they have never killed anyone as a result of being abused.

moo

I agree but I don't think the abuse angle is to excuse the murder because he is saying it was an accident. The reason for bringing in the abuse is to show why and how ICA can lie like she does and create her fantasy world to escape the horrors of reality. I don't believe him, but I think that is why that was brought in.

 

[davehead21]

I'm glad someone else agrees with me about George's testimony, esp. when Baez is questioning him. He comes across as arrogant and verbally combative, and IMO when someone goes into such detail to answer a question, it comes across as not being truthful. I'm not a body language expert but watch how many times he lifts his chin before he answers... a good sign that he is angry and combative. If you are telling the truth, there is no need to show anger towards the questioner. His whole demeanor changes when Baez steps up to cross examine. I don't know if George is guilty of sexual abuse, but I do know that theory has been tossed around before. He certainly gives me the impression that he is not as dedicated to trying to save Casey's life as Cindy is.

As for the chance of a mistrial, I doubt it. Judge Perry is being lenient with the A's because they are victims. I think he's been pretty fair with both sides, he has given the prosecution a couple smack-downs as well. I'm sure that for a judge with his many years experience, he finds it difficult to deal with someone like Baez who is just feeling his way around, sotaspeak.

I think she will be convicted, but I am not sure she will get the DP.

BBM

Baez accused GA of the most awful thing a father could do to his child. That, in itself, is a reason to act angry toward him.

 

[tehcloser]

BBM

Baez accused GA of the most awful thing a father could do to his child. That, in itself, is a reason to act angry toward him.

True, but then again......George has acted this same way with the State.

 

[crimesnooper]

[. As for the sentencing phase...if I were on this jury, the state would have to prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is a case of premeditated murder before I could vote for the death penalty. Before everyone throws tomatoes at me, let me explain why I feel that way. This was a 22 year old woman at the time of Caylee's death. The ME has been unable to determine cause of death. That leaves many likely scenario's in my mind, and I doubt the state will be able to definitely prove any one of them. (I'm still waiting to hear the forensic evidence...especially wrt the duct tape before I state that with certainty. The duct tape matters a GREAT DEAL to me). We have an obviously mentally unbalanced girl here...by ICA's own admission, if we are to believe what she told AZ prior to Caylee having gone missing. Could ICA have simply snapped? I don't know...we'll have to see how it plays out in court. But if I were on this jury, and I was left with any question about whether or not a very young mother could have emotionally snapped and killed her daughter, I don't know that I could justify a recommendation for the death penalty. LWOP, absolutely. Death penalty? That would be hard for me.

Respectfully snipped. But here is the problem...if a juror feels the way you do, he/she could not in good conscience find her guilty of first degree murder. You have to decide the guilt before sentincing. You are asking them to prove it without a doubt after the conviction. Sentencing is about mitigation and or/ aggravating factors to determine if the DP is warranted

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Boy do I wish the jury could have seen yesterday's fit!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hopefully it won't be the last one and at some point they will get to see "that Casey".

I bet you my bottom dollar the jury will get to see her in action. There are going to be many many more days in court when things don't go ICA's way. :innocent:

 

[crimesnooper]

The tears during the break yesterday after Cindy walked off the stand, they were real.. this is the first time in 3 years that I truly seen real tears coming from ICA.

Yes. I did see those tears..but to me they were anger tears.
She was pissed!!!lol