GUILTY Bali - Bali Nine, Australians arrested for heroin trafficking, 2005

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Does this mean we'll be withdrawing our ambassador from the USA too? Oh, we're not? Okie dokey then .. we are so full of BS it's embarrassing.

What is the point of withdrawing an ambassador anyway? I think Australia should pursue the corruption and human rights problem, preferably with some international partners. And cut back on aid money. I looked up ranking by GDP. Australia is no. 12 and Indonesia is no. 16. Why are we giving aid money to a corrupt country that isn't that poor anyway? Might be a bit hard to press the human rights stuff given Australia's own problems. But the corruption, I reckon we should push that angle in front of the international community. We could start by lodging a report to the UN about their failure to investigate corruption allegations before executing two people. If a couple of token diplomatic moves is all Australia does, I'll be very disappointed.
 
Our politicians are just playing to an audience in regards to this entire situation .. they didn't care for the last 10 years AT ALL, did we hear a peep about these guys being on death row, were there appeals to the Indonesians .. not that I'm aware of. Beyond that, wouldn't the time to withdraw the ambassador be BEFORE the shootings? What is the point after the fact, they're dead now .. there was nothing our politicians could have done to effect this outcome IMO, but all this posturing after the fact really is just a bit too much to bear. In regards to corruption I doubt we'd have a leg to stand on if we opened up that can of worms .. I think we should tidy up our own backyards before peeping over the fence into our neighbours.
 
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Our politicians are just playing to an audience in regards to this entire situation .. they didn't care for the last 10 years AT ALL, did we hear a peep about these guys being on death row, were there appeals to the Indonesians .. not that I'm aware of. Beyond that, wouldn't the time to withdraw the ambassador be BEFORE the shootings? What is the point after the fact, they're dead now .. there was nothing our politicians could have done to effect this outcome IMO, but all this posturing after the fact really is just a bit too much to bear. In regards to corruption I doubt we'd have a leg to stand on if we opened up that can of worms .. I think we should tidy up our own backyards before peeping over the fence into our neighbours.

BBM: how do you know this? Because it's not in the press? Seriously? All free societies have everything in the MSM? I think not. But what do I know? AU is not my country, but I do respect them and their efforts.
 
BBM: how do you know this? Because it's not in the press? Seriously? All free societies have everything in the MSM? I think not. But what do I know? AU is not my country, but I do respect them and their efforts.

The atmosphere in regards to these two changed significantly over the last year, and especially once the media changed their tune .. I think Ben Quilty was sincere for a long time, as far as the politicians and the press, I think they shifted their stance accordingly.

Daily Telegraph in the past .. compare that to now.

Screen Shot 2015-04-29 at 3.41.57 pm.png
 
The atmosphere in regards to these two changed significantly over the last year, and especially once the media changed their tune .. I think Ben Quilty was sincere for a long time, as far as the politicians and the press, I think they shifted their stance accordingly.

Daily Telegraph in the past .. compare that to now.

View attachment 74051

Not everything happens in the press. I had a family member held in Mexico on bogus charges. We (family) + the US govt worked to get it settled and he was released. NONE of it was in the press. Can't even google the "family members" name to discover this.

We (the public) do not know what went on/goes on behind closed doors and we shouldn't. IMO. Whether AU did this or not ... is remaining to be seen or not. I just don't paint any Gov't with a broad brush. Others may and that's okay. Peace. Night all.
 
BBM: how do you know this? Because it's not in the press? Seriously? All free societies have everything in the MSM? I think not. But what do I know? AU is not my country, but I do respect them and their efforts.

Also I've been saying all the way along that there is nothing that our politicians could do to change this outcome, and have been against the Tony Abbott bashing that has occurred, and the silly notion that some people had (not here) that he could 'do more', because frankly if an Australian citizen is arrested overseas for a crime there is very little our politicians can do about it, we learned that one from Schapelle Corby, or at least I thought we did. In fact I think our politicians learned that from that case too, and until recently we seemed as a nation to accept this, for whatever reason this all changed a couple of months ago and our politicians started making very different noises about diplomatic intervention, it all seemed rather .. insincere. I don't mean that I think Julie Bishop was insincere in wanting to save the lives of MS and AC, however she and Tony Abbott certainly changed the narrative from one of 'there's nothing we can do' to 'we're pulling out all the stops' which also had the effect of giving some sections of society false hope, and a false expectation that these two would be saved, and I can't help but wonder why.

Perhaps they simply told the public what they thought the public wanted to hear, in effect politicising the situation, we'll see what happens over the next few months in regards to the ambassador.
 
Not that it matters at all now, but the Aussie govt did try to assist the Bali 9 in various ways prior to the most recent furor over the executions. They were not just left to swing in the wind until recently.

Here are examples from 2005 - I have also come across other examples during my time on this thread.


Mr Ruddock told reporters in Hobart today that Australian Federal Police (AFP) would stop working with Indonesia after prosecutors handed over files to the Denpasar District Court yesterday demanding death by firing squad for all nine of the Australians charged with heroin trafficking.

" ... the agreements that we have with other countries, particularly those who impose a death penalty, is that we will not provide cooperation in relation to criminal matters unless there is an assurance that a death penalty will not be sought," Mr Ruddock said.

The nine would still receive government help, Mr Ruddock said.
It was well-known the government had provided assistance and "we would do so in criminal matters regardless of whether there was a death penalty being sought or not".



"Wherever an Australian faces the death penalty, we pull out all stops to make a plea on their behalf for that not to be carried out," Senator Ellison told reporters in Perth.
"Should there be a conviction in Indonesia where the death penalty is applicable we will certainly make those representations.


http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/afp-wont-cooperate-over-bali-nine/2005/09/28/1127804529787.html
 
How the AFP trapped the Bali Nine August 27, 2010

Since the Bali Nine's capture, the AFP has been widely criticised for tipping off the INP and authorising their arrest in Indonesia, rather than allowing them to return to Australia where they might have led police to the leaders of the drug ring and then faced punishment under Australian law. The NSW Council for Civil Liberties has described the AFP's conduct as "outrageous", saying "If these Australians are put before a firing squad, it will be because the AFP helped to put them there."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ed-the-bali-nine/story-e6frg6z6-1225910600831



Australia's international obligations

By ratifying the Second Optional Protocol to the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), aiming at the abolition of the Death Penalty Australia has committed itself to opposing the death penalty.

While the ICCPR recognises the right to life as a fundamental and non-derogable right, international human rights law does not require countries that retain the death penalty to abolish it, although it severely restricts its use.7
Countries which have not yet abolished the death penalty can only impose a death sentence following the final judgment of a competent court and only if a right to amnesty, pardon or commutation exist. The imposition of a mandatory death penalty, which is retained by many of Australia's close neighbours, is a breach of the ICCPR.

Protecting Australian citizens from the death penalty

Australia's obligation to protect individuals within its jurisdiction from the application of the death penalty is not as straight forward as simply abolishing the death penalty in all Australian jurisdictions.

In a region where many of our nearest neighbours maintain the mandatory death penalty for a wide range of offences it is inevitable that occasionally Australians will find themselves on death row. And, in rare circumstances, Australians may find themselves facing the death penalty in a foreign country as a result of the actions of Australia.

There has, for example, been considerable media coverage about the question of whether or not the actions of the Australian Federal Police exposed members of the so-called 'Bali Nine' to the risk of the death penalty.

This raises the issue of how Australia should respond to a request for assistance in criminal investigations and prosecutions when providing assistance may expose a person to the risk of the death penalty.

There are two key ways in which Australia can provide a foreign country with information about a criminal investigation or prosecution.
The first way is by Mutual Assistance. Mutual Assistance is a more formal process whereby Governments can ask other Governments for assistance in criminal investigation and prosecutions.

The second way is by agency to agency assistance. Under agency to agency assistance - which includes police to police assistance - Australian law enforcement agencies can share information about criminal investigations with their overseas counterparts.

https://www.humanrights.gov.au/news/speeches/death-penalty-matter-principle



The AFP should have struck a deal with Indonesia to spare their lives or arrested the Bali Nine when they entered Australia. All too late now, but hopefully, when this situation arises again, and it will, the AFP will take a different route.
 
What is the point of withdrawing an ambassador anyway? I think Australia should pursue the corruption and human rights problem, preferably with some international partners. And cut back on aid money. I looked up ranking by GDP. Australia is no. 12 and Indonesia is no. 16. Why are we giving aid money to a corrupt country that isn't that poor anyway? Might be a bit hard to press the human rights stuff given Australia's own problems. But the corruption, I reckon we should push that angle in front of the international community. We could start by lodging a report to the UN about their failure to investigate corruption allegations before executing two people. If a couple of token diplomatic moves is all Australia does, I'll be very disappointed.


I would like to see the aid money be the first change that we make with Indonesia. With their levels of corruption, who knows what they are doing with the money.

Indonesia said Wednesday it was “not too worried” about Australia’s response to the execution of two Australian drug convicts, as the two countries need each other. :no:

Asked about the possibility of Australia reducing its aid to Indonesia, Arrmanatha said: “We have never asked for aid from Australia. They offered it to us,” indicating that the support was not essential for the country. “We are a relatively big economy.”


http://www.thenewage.co.za/157628-1..._plays_down_Australias_response_to_executions
 
I am disgusted that Indonesia not only murdered a minister of religion and an artist - two men who proved their GENUINE rehabilitation - but also a mentally ill man.

There is no justice in their system. We have known all along that they are corrupt. I am not surprised, but I am sickened, angry and upset.

Indonesia did nothing today to stop drug crime.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
 
Father Burrows was there for Rodrigo Gularte, the Brazilian man who was mentally ill. Father Burrows thought he had prepared Rodrigo for the execution, but when the Indonesians started strapping the men to the poles, Rodrigo asked Father Burrows if he was being executed. After Father Burrows answered him, Rodrigo shouted out "this is pointless, I made one mistake".

- Ch 10 The Project
 
Can this be true???

The OTHER evil plot by the Bali Nine kingpin: Five days before 'God-fearing' Andrew Chan was arrested, two teenage drug mules were caught in Hong Kong with heroin-filled condoms
Bali Nine kingpin Andrew Chan masterminded another overseas heroin deal that went wrong
Rachel Diaz, 17, of Sydney, was arrested with two others in a Hong Kong hotel
Diaz, a trainee hairdresser, and Chris Vo, then 15, were due to swallow 114 heroin-filled condoms when police raided their hotel room
Chan sent threats from Kerobokan jail to Diaz's Hong Kong prison cell, telling her to keep her 'mouth shut'
Chan set up at least 17 young Australians who were arrest on heroin charges
He was part of a 'predatory crime syndicate' which recruited young people as drug mules


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Hong-Kong-jail-mouth-shut.html#ixzz3YgncXjsL
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
 
Thank You for posting this. The changes these people made while in prison and their courageous attitudes in the end count as true remorse and rehabilitation. IMO, it was so wrong of the Indonesian government to execute them.

It is no secret what the punishment in Indonesia for this particular crime is, but they chose to go ahead and do it anyway. Do the crime, do the time. And in this case the time is execution.

Put it this way, if an Indonesian came here and committed a crime the penalty for which was death, would you be saying he should be spared just because he is Indonesian?
 
Can this be true???

The OTHER evil plot by the Bali Nine kingpin: Five days before 'God-fearing' Andrew Chan was arrested, two teenage drug mules were caught in Hong Kong with heroin-filled condoms
Bali Nine kingpin Andrew Chan masterminded another overseas heroin deal that went wrong
Rachel Diaz, 17, of Sydney, was arrested with two others in a Hong Kong hotel
Diaz, a trainee hairdresser, and Chris Vo, then 15, were due to swallow 114 heroin-filled condoms when police raided their hotel room
Chan sent threats from Kerobokan jail to Diaz's Hong Kong prison cell, telling her to keep her 'mouth shut'
Chan set up at least 17 young Australians who were arrest on heroin charges
He was part of a 'predatory crime syndicate' which recruited young people as drug mules


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Hong-Kong-jail-mouth-shut.html#ixzz3YgncXjsL
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

You should read Snowing in Bali, TGY. The mules are not duped. They choose to make these runs for a once-in-a-lifetime (or more) big cash payout. The 'standover men' are only there to make sure they conceal the drugs in the best way possible to avoid detection (there are lots of tricks to that), and that the drugs make it to the financer and not to somewhere else - because nobody gets paid until the drugs arrive safely. Very few mules actually get caught, which is why they choose to take the risk. Hundreds of successful international drug runs, through multiple countries, are made very frequently.

The reason Andrew and Myuran did not reveal who their 'Mr Big' (the financer) was, is because great harm can come to their own families for doing so. They also advise the mules to be quiet so no harm comes to the mules' families either.
 
the incarceration, of 17 young Australians???? ummm I didn't know this was in the background....

In just two weeks in April 2005, the syndicate was responsible for the arrest, and later the incarceration, of 17 young Australians for heroin trafficking in three countries.

A Korean-Australian and a co-conspirator were charged with plotting to import the packages of heroin that Diaz and 15-year-old Vo were meant to swallow.

Chan visited the Korean-Australian at least three times in different NSW prisons and once with Sukumaran in late 2004, just before the two made two 'practice' runs to Indonesia with several of the future Bali Nine couriers, including Renae Lawrence, and successfully returned to Australia with heroin strapped to their bodies.

http://hotcopper.com.au/threads/bali-9-duo-executed.2504225/page-76?post_id=15178233#.VUC0TGIaySN
 
Indonesia defends executions, after convicts die singing

He added: "We are fighting a war against horrible drug crimes that threaten our nation's survival.

"I would like to say that an execution is not a pleasant thing. It is not a fun job," Prasetyo told reporters in Cilacap.

"But we must do it in order to save the nation from the danger of drugs. We are not making enemies of countries from where those executed came. What we are fighting against is drug-related crimes."

- 'They asked for mercy: there was none' -

http://news.yahoo.com/indonesia-defends-executions-part-war-drugs-034407992.html

Oh what a cruel statement.
 

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