GUILTY Bali - Bali Nine, Australians arrested for heroin trafficking, 2005

[Mrs G Norris]

I doubt it. Backing down is not an option at this stage IMO.

 

[SouthAussie]

Do you think there could be a last minute reprieve? The armed guard up thread looked quite concerned for Sukumaran. Infact I would go as far as saying…it really does look quite staged. I'm surprised there has not been more information leaked regarding Kerobokan. Excuse my ignorance …….what trade agreement do we have with Indonesia. Sorry too many questions.

There is a significant amount of Aussie investment in Indonesia, emirates. We definitely should have some strings we can pull to affect a life term for Andrew and Myuran, instead of death. Who knows how much they will listen though? Will they just let failed court applications seal their fate? I am not optimistic, but I am always hopeful. If they think that many, many of us Aussies do not care, they are wrong.

I know that Julie Bishop clearly stated that she has been approaching our Aussie businesses, asking for their assistance in this matter. And Julie Bishop cares a heck of a lot about this matter (as you can see on that segment of The Project, and I have also seen in several other of her television appearances).


"Indonesia is a significant economic and regional partner for Australia. Two-way trade in goods and services reached $14.9 billion in the 2013 calendar year, making Indonesia our 12th largest trading partner and 11th largest export market. Australian investment in Indonesia was worth an estimated $10.9 billion in 2013. Austrade estimates that there are more than 400 Australian companies operating in Indonesia, in sectors including mining, agriculture, construction, infrastructure, finance, health care, food and beverage and transport."

http://www.dfat.gov.au/trade/agreem...rehensive-economic-partnership-agreement.aspx

 

[marlywings]

Prime Minister Tony Abbott, “Even at this late hour I hope the better angels of the Indonesian people’s nature will prevail.”

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...execution-island/story-fnh81fz8-1227246969406

............calling all angels

We're tryin', we're hopin', we're hurtin', we're lovin'

We're cryin', we're callin' 'cause we're not sure how this goes.....

[video=youtube;tatx5-Eskc4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tatx5-Eskc4[/video]​

 

[SouthAussie]

".... compared to a third prisoner they transferred — an Indonesian drug trafficker who came in a little van."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-...n-sukumaran-isolation-cells-execution/6280854

 

[gracehatter]

I just don't understand...


http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/03/03/world/asia/ap-as-indonesia-executions.html?_r=0

 

[JLSChook]

I just don't understand...


http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/03/03/world/asia/ap-as-indonesia-executions.html?_r=0

From your link:

"Right now millions of Australians are feeling sick in their guts at the prospect of execution for these two," Abbott told reporters.

"I've been saying again and again that this is contrary to Indonesia's national interest and it is contrary to Indonesia's best values," he added.

But then......

But Abbott said the bilateral relationship must survive regardless of what happens to the pair.

"Let's remember that a good relationship with Indonesia is very important to this country and whatever might happen in the next few days, the relationship with Indonesia must endure and, over time, it must grow stronger," he said.

:silenced:

 

[fruity]

I loathe Abbott and his entire government but at least they're genuinely trying. It is the only admirable thing they've ever done, IMNSHO.

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/03/05/04/57/bishop-bid-to-save-bali-nine-duo

 

[they'll get you]

Bali nine: Indonesian president Joko Widodo says executions will not be this week

Indonesian president Joko Widodo says the executions of 10 drug felons, including Bali nine ringleaders Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan, will not be this week but will be soon.

When asked about the rehabilitation of the two Australians, Mr Joko said he could not discriminate between people from different countries.
"I think the decision (to execute Chan and Sukumaran) was already taken by the court," he said during an interview with al-Jazeera on Wednesday night.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/bali-ni...ns-will-not-be-this-week-20150304-13vel0.html

 

[SouthAussie]

Sydney Morning Herald editorial this morning ... includes lots of good points about the negative effect that these executions will have on people in general, and the poorly thought out message it is sending to young people.


"What right in all good conscience does a father of three children, brother of three younger sisters and uncle and grandfather of generations to come have to deny two men their lives?

The two Australians' lives are not worth more or less than the fellow condemned or the thousands of others executed in Indonesia and other nations each year.
Neither does Australia want special treatment from Mr Joko.
All Australians seek is common humanity.

The Herald pleads with the President and his family to spare these lives."

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/smh-e...ukumaran-and-andrew-chan-20150304-13uvz4.html

 

[SouthAussie]

From your link:

But then......

But Abbott said the bilateral relationship must survive regardless of what happens to the pair.

"Let's remember that a good relationship with Indonesia is very important to this country and whatever might happen in the next few days, the relationship with Indonesia must endure and, over time, it must grow stronger," he said.

:silenced:

Yes, I know what you mean. Plus, they have done and continue to do many wrong things in this world ... just ask the gentle people of Bali, the Timorese, the Papuans. Nobody stops them. And we are supposed to remain 'friends' with them.

Only trouble is, they almost completely surround our border to the north .. and they continue to spread further along that border as they take over more land, that they have taken from other people.

 

[Brightbird]

I loathe Abbott and his entire government but at least they're genuinely trying. It is the only admirable thing they've ever done, IMNSHO.

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/03/05/04/57/bishop-bid-to-save-bali-nine-duo

I know it what you mean. It was a strange feeling to take Abbott's side when he made the comment about tsunami aid. I think it will be hard for this government to stand up to Indonesia after the executions. Abbott's position is so precarious he won't want to rock the boat.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Australia wont be standing up to Indonesia over these executions in any real sense, parliamentarians are just giving lip service to what they think the public want to hear based on media reports .. in reality nothing will change. I remember watching all this unfold in a similar manner when Malaysia and Singapore executed Australians for drugs, very soon after the execution is done the media hype stops and it's rarely discussed again.

 

[SouthAussie]

The trouble with us Aussies is that we have too much of a she-be-right attitude at times. We, the people, are the ones that can initiate and drive change. Instead, we sit back on our laurels and let the govt of the day do whatever they want, without major protests and intense lobbying, as some other nations do. We just have a whinge and get on with our business.

Sometimes our lackadaisical attitude and lack of persistence irks the heck out of me.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I think the real issue is we know that it's not our place to tell another country what they do with people who commit crimes on their soil. Just as we can't let them do the same here. Also a lot of Australians are NOT supportive of these guys, and think they really ought to have known better.

 

[SouthAussie]

Yeah, I know a lot of people are not supportive of them. But just as many, if not more imo, are supportive of them. It is clearly reflected in the media. And if we don't encourage the cessation of the death penalty, when we have a just cause to do so, who will? Change, good change, can be encouraged by pressure from other countries. It happens frequently.

And as for their lack of compassion and archaic laws, perhaps we should commence the death penalty, just for Indonesian drug runners, instead of giving them cushy jail cells where they can also earn more money than they do in a regular job at home. Except I shudder to think of us lowering ourselves to that barbaric degree. Better we just interrupt our business and economic dealings with them.

 

[SouthAussie]

And just to add, how can the death penalty for drugs be justified for some, with others committing equivalent crimes being granted clemency, depending on the politician of the day, or buying their way out of the situation? It is a very unequal system in that country.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

The laws in Indonesia are up to the legislators and have nothing to do with us. I don't even believe our politicians are genuine about these mercy pleas, if politicians in Australia were genuine about a prison swap for instance they would have started negotiations when these two were convicted, not at the 11th hour when they are about to be shot.

 

[SouthAussie]

Oh, I hadn't seen the prisoner swap offer! Thanks for mentioning that. Now that could be a way to alleviate this situation, without the Indonesians losing face with their people. Release some of their prisoners from our barbaric jails.

Good on Julie Bishop ... trying everything that she can. I actually really like and respect her. I believe she is far more genuine than ole Abbott. I attended a charity fund raising breakfast in December, that she spoke at. A very impressive woman imo. With a good heart. And I don't even follow her politics.


"What we are seeking to do is have an opportunity to talk about options that might be available in the area of prisoner transfer, a prisoner swap," Ms Bishop said in Canberra.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...han-and-myuran-sukumaran-20150304-13vgaw.html

 

[wewillgetyou]

What really irks me is that Indonesia are doing exactly what Australia is doing - trying to get some of its citizens off death row in another country.

If it's good enough for their citizens not to be executed then it's good enough for ours.

It's a barbaric procedure and in the end it's just punishing the families of the 2 men.

I would like to see their lives spared but keep them locked up to continue doing the good work that they do in the jail.

I'm as against drugs as the next person but nobody has the right to plan in advance to murder 2 people, and in such a public display ( no matter what the crime ) - it's disgusting !

I had never really thought about going to Indonesia in the past but mist defiantly will not be ever considering it now. We give them something like 650million each year in foreign aid. I'd like to see that significantly CUT !

Thank you for your comments South Aussie. I read and agree with probably 99% of what you say.
I also agree that Julie Bishop is doing a fabulous job under what must be a very stressful process. I wish Abbott would just shut his mouth and stay out of it.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

The laws in Indonesia are up to the legislators and have nothing to do with us. I don't even believe our politicians are genuine about these mercy pleas, if politicians in Australia were genuine about a prison swap for instance they would have started negotiations when these two were convicted, not at the 11th hour when they are about to be shot.

I agree. Unfortunately, we're late to the party as usual. The public got a wake up call when the other inmates were executed in January. It's been quite a few years since the last execution by firing squad, so must have been a lot of payoffs over those years.

This will just drive the price up for the drug, imo. Higher risk for the drug syndicate and smugglers, trickles down to the drug abuser, who needs to find the money, crime escalates and corruption at the top. This is all about money. Killing Sukumaran and Chan won't make a bean of difference to the drug availability on the streets, just the price.

JMO