GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #2

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Confusion said:
As usual, I apologize in advance if I'm repeating things that have already been said or asking questions that have already been answered. I've just been wondering about a few things like - How sure are they that it was her that requested the wake up call? Has an autopsy determined a fairly precise time of death? Was the ornament something from her room, or was it something that belonged to one of the 3?

I keep thinking about how HM treated her mother in the past and wondering if she actually committed the murder herself. In my befuddled brain, HM and TS could have planned to leave that morning, picking up the items from the lock box on their way out. After she killed her, she called and asked for a wake-up call for a time later than they planned to leave (so nothing would be discovered anything until they had already gone.) When he got there and found out that she was dead, he stuffed her in the suitcase and they left. She may have said that she'd testify that it happened in the heat of an argument if he would say he did it; otherwise she'd say that he came in with the ornament and just started attacking her.

I keep thinking they're giving them preferential treatment (to some degree) because the US has a reputation for responding violently when a perceived injustice is committed. I'm not saying one way or the other if I believe we deserve the reputation, but I do believe many people from many countries do. MOO
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BBM.
Oh, I'm an American and I believe we do- just look at Amanda Knox, whom is Guilty in my opinion, yet she got Hillary Clinton championing her cause.
 
Curious Me said:
:deepbreaths:please NO on seeing these trials happen in the United States!

I was just thinking this morning about what would happen if this was tried in the US.
Honestly, I think it would give both HM and TS more wiggle room.
HM's defense team would use all her vague mental problems, which seem more to do with spoiled anger issues, but with the right attorney HM would be the pitiful girl with mental illness and a mean bf.
TS might say SWM attacked him.
In the US, things are always delayed and sly defense trickery can sometimes work.
I guess I'm less confident after following some trials in the US that have had disappointing results.
I'm hoping in Bali the Justice system is much more clear cut.

These two still have to worry about facing a Firing Squad if it is proven to be premeditation.
If Heather manages to wrangle her way out of being involved in the actual blows to her mother, she should still do fifteen years, but it'll be less if she is not charged with the actual murder. HM might only do eight years. Is that enough time really? There's people in Bali doing more time for a little bit of pot. So, I hope Bali comes down hard on these two.

All my own opinion. :sothere:
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Wondering though if here it would be a Federal crime. IIRC, it's a Federal crime to cross State lines to commit an act of domestic violence. Curious if something like that could apply to TS and HM. Well, at least, for Heather.
 
When Sheila was first murdered, I wondered if she was asleep (hence, no noise). We know now that she was "upright" when hit. What if she was the one who opened the door and TS pushed his way in (with her still holding the door), and immediately bashed poor Sheila. With the amount of blood draining down her throat, perhaps she couldn't scream? And, just maybe (as planned), Heather was conveniently in the bathroom?? Then, coming out to see the brutal attack continue. I'm getting the overwhelming feeling this was, indeed, all planned by the pair.
 
Orange Tabby said:
Good questions, Confusion. The short answer is: we don't have definitive answers to any of these questions yet.

Wake-up call. I have always thought a 6:45 a.m. wake-up call was strange. Sheila was seen in the lobby of the hotel at 3:45 a.m. so a 6:45 a.m. wake-up call certainly wouldn't allow her much sleep. Why would she want to get up so early while on vacation? I have wondered if the things that happened after Tommy arrived and before that, with Heather, had Sheila concerned enough to want to phone someone in Chicago, maybe her brother. I believe 6:45 a.m. in Denpasar is 5:45 p.m. in Chicago (the previous day) and maybe that's the time her brother got home from work. Pure speculation on my part, including the fact that I don't even know where Sheila's brother lives.

I don't know of any theory which suggests Heather made the wake-up call request. Why would she have done that?

It's possible Sheila had some special day trip planned and that required being up early, in which case the early wake-up call is completely irrelevant to the murder.

TOD. When the autopsy findings were first made public (around Aug. 19, I think), the media reported that the time of death was something like 12 hours before Sheila's body was discovered. This makes no sense, because that would have put the TOD before her lobby walk at 3:45 a.m. Also, the police are now saying they believe the murder happened after 8:40 a.m., when Tommy is seen entering room 317. So we'll have to wait for further info as to what the autopsy actually found.

Murder weapon. The police are implying, but not saying outright, that what was concealed under Tommy's shirt when he entered Sheila's room at 8:40 is the murder weapon. If this is true, then it seems likely that it came from his room. (If you Google the Bali St. Regis, you'll find their website and it has lots of pictures of the accomodations in the resort. They are beautifully furnished and it seems entirely possible that the item used could have come from a St. Regis room.) It doesn't seem like Tommy had enough time to go out and purchase an ornament before the murder. But if he did do such a thing, that's yet another element against him.

The concealed item could be something other than the murder weapon. In that case, it would seem that whatever was used to strike Sheila came from room 317, either a furnishing provided by the hotel or something Sheila had already purchased during this trip. So any of your suggestions remain possible at this point.

Some of my details above could be slightly off or incorrect, so I welcome being corrected by other Web Sleuthers if that's the case.
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I believe the wake-up call was placed at 6:45am and it was to be for 10am. So there was a call from a female in the room at 6:45am, who may have represented themselves to be SWM, requesting a wake-up call for 10am. We do not know if this called was placed by SWM or HM and why it was placed.

Some reports stated that there was a stone statue in the suitcase with SWM. I've often wondered if this was the murder weapon and the broken items were just smashed on the floor as part of the argument. Witness statements will be interesting and at least one early report did indicate that they had many witness statements including the taxi driver and hotel staff. So is that to indicate that they may have other statements from guests in adjoining rooms?

It's also still a little foggy at what time the taxi driver started the chain of events that lead to LE discovering the body and at what time it was that they did open the suitcase and officially find SWM.

And when they say that it appears that TS is hiding something under his shirt in the surveillance video, they never seem to indicate how large of an item he may be hiding. We still don't know who had the duct tape and where it came from so that is another possibility.

MOO
 
RR0004 said:
When Sheila was first murdered, I wondered if she was asleep (hence, no noise). We know now that she was "upright" when hit. What if she was the one who opened the door and TS pushed his way in (with her still holding the door), and immediately bashed poor Sheila. With the amount of blood draining down her throat, perhaps she couldn't scream? And, just maybe (as planned), Heather was conveniently in the bathroom?? Then, coming out to see the brutal attack continue. I'm getting the overwhelming feeling this was, indeed, all planned by the pair.
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It's still a bit of a mystery how TS gained access to the room. The reports said that he either had an access card or the door was unlocked. Not sure why they say that other than the fact that he must not have been seen knocking on the door and waiting any length of time for someone to answer it. Don't know what the camera was able to pick up and whether they can tell that someone did not answer it for him. So someone knew he was coming and was either waiting at the door to open it immediately or they left it unlocked. Not sure that's an option in an upscale resort other than to not quite close the door for the automatic lock to catch. Or to put something small in the door jam to prevent it from closing completely and locking.

I personally do believe that SWM was sleeping when he first came into the room. And if there was an argument, it probably started as soon as she awoke and realized that TS was in the room. So she may not have gotten too far from the side of the bed. But if she was upright, which they have said she was, it makes much more sense for someone taller than her to have inflicted the injuries that she had. Much more force when swinging down at a target.

MOO
 
In the comments of this article it states that TS does have a US lawyer and he is denying that TS has made any confession. This is being re-iterated by a friend of his mother on the "fund" site.

http://www.oakpark.com/News/Articles/9-19-2014/Schaefer-confesses-to-Bali-murder/

I cannot, however, find the original article in the Chicago Tribune. Perhaps it was pulled because the lawyer was incorrect with his statement? But apparently he originally said he has talked to TS several times on the phone. So why would Bali LE allow these two to speak to anyone other than their appointed Indonesian attorneys until they had given their statements?
 
Kamille said:
I believe the wake-up call was placed at 6:45am and it was to be for 10am. So there was a call from a female in the room at 6:45am, who may have represented themselves to be SWM, requesting a wake-up call for 10am. We do not know if this called was placed by SWM or HM and why it was placed.
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Many thanks for that correction Kamille.
 
Kamille said:
In the comments of this article it states that TS does have a US lawyer and he is denying that TS has made any confession. This is being re-iterated by a friend of his mother on the "fund" site.

http://www.oakpark.com/News/Articles/9-19-2014/Schaefer-confesses-to-Bali-murder/

I cannot, however, find the original article in the Chicago Tribune. Perhaps it was pulled because the lawyer was incorrect with his statement? But apparently he originally said he has talked to TS several times on the phone. So why would Bali LE allow these two to speak to anyone other than their appointed Indonesian attorneys until they had given their statements?
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It was some anonymous jerk writing in a comment section. He either wanted to get people rushing to look up the nonexistent article (he suckered me) or he's trying to gin up the donations to the money-grubbing site. Some people enjoy lying. Disgusting.
 
Here is a question I have, had these 2 succeeded in making it back to the U.S. after dumping SM, would they have been tried here, or in Indonesian? I have to say, once again, that they were really sloppy about this, they left so much evidence that points to them and only them. :jail:
 
Orange Tabby said:
It was some anonymous jerk writing in a comment section. He either wanted to get people rushing to look up the nonexistent article (he suckered me) or he's trying to gin up the donations to the money-grubbing site. Some people enjoy lying. Disgusting.
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Actually it was a good friend of TS's mother and one of the women who started the fund raising for his "justice fund" that re-posted it on that site. So I have to assume that she is aware of this lawyer and that he does "represent" TS in some way and is in communication with him. The other good friend claims that we are to be expecting an update from Ms Walker soon. I wish she would give a statement to the local press instead of just on that site.

Now to ask the question why the original story with the quote from the lawyer was pulled?

MOO
 
No problem. Many early articles placed the time of the murder between 6:45am and 10am. Presumably because 6:45am was the last time anyone had any contact with SWM and 10am is around the time TS left her room with the suitcase.

I wonder how confident the hotel reception employee is that they were talking with SWM at 6:45am?

MOO
 
He specifically excluded his other children by stating "only to provide for Heather Mack and no other children."
 
FormerOakParker said:
Cruise Bruise has an article that, although it contains no new info, it's a good one-stop comprehensive resource for anyone who missed some of the background on this tragedy. "Royal Caribbean Cruise Line $1.5m Settlement Leads To Suitcase Murder"
http://www.cruisebruise.com/Cruise/Laws/Royal_Caribbean_Cruise_Line_Settlements_Leads_To_Murder.html
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There is some misinformation in that article, and the author has taken some liberties with vague information that is out there, but overall it's a good summary.

MOO
 
Yes, I see s/he has HM as being 19, not 18. And I couldn't find who the author is. But it clearly shows they are closely tracking this.
 
gracehatter said:
He specifically excluded his other children by stating "only to provide for Heather Mack and no other children.
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I wondered about this too. Maybe he had provided for the other children in divorce settlements. Regardless, it seems somewhat hurtful to HM's half siblings.
 
RR0004 said:
When Sheila was first murdered, I wondered if she was asleep (hence, no noise). We know now that she was "upright" when hit. What if she was the one who opened the door and TS pushed his way in (with her still holding the door), and immediately bashed poor Sheila. With the amount of blood draining down her throat, perhaps she couldn't scream? And, just maybe (as planned), Heather was conveniently in the bathroom?? Then, coming out to see the brutal attack continue. I'm getting the overwhelming feeling this was, indeed, all planned by the pair.
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Well I'm sure Sheila offending him was a pretext, probably her very presence offended him. This was preplanned by both of them.
 
FormerOakParker said:
Yes, I see s/he has HM as being 19, not 18. And I couldn't find who the author is. But it clearly shows they are closely tracking this.
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Even they got the room number wrong LOL. There is so much confusing and conflicting information out there that I'm sure it's difficult to put a story together with actual facts. I also noticed that they wrote that the couple had been dating since April. Which is also the time the ex girlfriend died I believe. I think they may have taken a liberty with that as I've still not found anything to say when they started dating. Unless this author is actually local and got some local input. But I doubt it.

MOO
 
Kamille said:
It's still a bit of a mystery how TS gained access to the room. The reports said that he either had an access card or the door was unlocked. Not sure why they say that other than the fact that he must not have been seen knocking on the door and waiting any length of time for someone to answer it. Don't know what the camera was able to pick up and whether they can tell that someone did not answer it for him. So someone knew he was coming and was either waiting at the door to open it immediately or they left it unlocked. Not sure that's an option in an upscale resort other than to not quite close the door for the automatic lock to catch. Or to put something small in the door jam to prevent it from closing completely and locking.

I personally do believe that SWM was sleeping when he first came into the room. And if there was an argument, it probably started as soon as she awoke and realized that TS was in the room. So she may not have gotten too far from the side of the bed. But if she was upright, which they have said she was, it makes much more sense for someone taller than her to have inflicted the injuries that she had. Much more force when swinging down at a target.

MOO
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Heather could've given him her room key. She wouldn't really need it if Sheila let her in.
 
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