GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #2

[RR0004]

You know I've gone through every picture I can of the two of them at the time of their arrests, combing over and blowing up pics of their hands, arms and faces and I cannot see one mark on either of them that indicates that Sheila fought back. Was she taken by surprise with the very first blow and that rendered her helpless? Did she put her arms up only to try to shield her face which got her the wounds on her forearms and the broken finger?


MOO

HM's nail polish appeared perfect. Could she have put it on at the hotel in Kuta? Otherwise, I'm thinking those perfectly polished nails could help her.
I wonder if this girl picked up after herself at all. Even my polish after a week's vacation isn't perfect.

I hope they photographed her nails up close and they do show chips and breaks.

 

[RR0004]

I think it would definitely be used if this occurred in the US. Not sure what role the FBI may play in this and whether things like that would be turned over to Bali prosecutors by them.

I also was wondering what the last call to police was about in June 2013, just before they moved and why there have been no calls mentioned for over a year after the move? Different jurisdiction did not release reports? Sheila wanted a new start and didn't want police at the apartment all the time to get neighbours talking?

MOO

Or they exist and we don't know about them? I'm wondering how often HM was actually at home.

 

[Kamille]

Kamille...
I can't tell you how close to home this hits...and somehow hurts. In many ways, Oak Park is considered a "model" community of progressive thinkers, artists, architects and educators. I can say from comments made in local media (Wednesday Journal) that some are wondering if Oak Park failed somehow in supporting or protecting the family. I suppose we'll never have all the answers.

Sorry that you're feeling the shock of something like this being "so close to home, even though it was thousands of miles away". Totally understand...hugs to you.

There are families with difficulties in every neighbourhood. I'd like to believe Sheila did all that she could with and for her daughter's rage issues but I'm afraid I don't think she did. Otherwise I'd also be wondering if maybe they were failed by the people she enlisted to help her. But I can in no way blame her for what happened. There is no way she ever believed it would end up like it did. And after 8 years of fighting and 86 calls to the police, the difference this time needs to be recognized IMO. There was a third person there. He may be the deciding factor that turned an argument into a murder.

MOO

 

[SwampMama]

I wondered about the "needle marks" too. I figured it was her lame attempt to blame any bruises or scratches on the authorities (and not as evidence of her participation in the killing). Take a vague comment about needle marks and it can be developed many ways later by a defendant who is a lying liar who lies.

Could it have been the prison staff, the criminal gang who kidnapped them or even aliens who drugged her and made her commit the crime? Cuz you just know that lil angel (HM) didn't do it, no way!

I think HM and TS were both grandiose posers, both playing up how much a "baller" they were, both acting as if they were "all that". They were both quite delusional and in the end, it cost SVM her life and hopefully keeps TS and HM in their new prison cells for many years to come.

 

[FormerOakParker]

Or they exist and we don't know about them? I'm wondering how often HM was actually at home.

The last call seems to involve a missing person report on Heather. Here's a link to all the reports that I can find:
http://www.suntimes.com/csp/cms/sites/STM/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=g1dqQ49tmbJ_DRT2fvu9cYFxNwEQHtGZTBO$621pcOw4haLKKpULgjj4hMcNJivWjMpqdV2Mso4mH6beQ6T6p6cn$IfHvVpaPD23r0DuAcZaTfjnUETyN4ze2Kxdkdy8&CONTENTTYPE=application/pdf&CONTENTDISPOSITION=indonesia-CST-081914.pdf

 

[LinasK]

Sorry that you're feeling the shock of something like this being "so close to home, even though it was thousands of miles away". Totally understand...hugs to you.

There are families with difficulties in every neighbourhood. I'd like to believe Sheila did all that she could with and for her daughter's rage issues but I'm afraid I don't think she did. Otherwise I'd also be wondering if maybe they were failed by the people she enlisted to help her. But I can in no way blame her for what happened. There is no way she ever believed it would end up like it did. And after 8 years of fighting and 86 calls to the police, the difference this time needs to be recognized IMO. There was a third person there. He may be the deciding factor that turned an argument into a murder.

MOO

Yeah, I don't think Heather is going to be the "Boss" of this prison, the way she claimed she was in Juvie! Her attitude, what it do, will only get her one step closer to the firing squad! Noone in OakPark should blame themselves. They couldn't have stopped Heather & Tommy from their plans for Sheila.

 

[Kamille]

HM's nail polish appeared perfect. Could she have put it on at the hotel in Kuta? Otherwise, I'm thinking those perfectly polished nails could help her.
I wonder if this girl picked up after herself at all. Even my polish after a week's vacation isn't perfect.

I hope they photographed her nails close-up and the do show chips and breaks.

If you blow up this pic (works great on an iPad) you'll see both of her hands pretty clearly. The polish does look a little worn. And I'm not sure if the new thing is to not put polish at the base of your nails because when you do this it looks like a few weeks of growth since they were done.

http://cbschicago.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/heather-mack-and-tommy-schaefer.jpg?w=1500

MOO

 

[LinasK]

Otto, I laughed out loud when I read your phrase “needle people”—hilarious!

Just what is that allegation of "needle marks on her body she can't explain" supposed to mean? Did either her attorney or Heather herself think through that accusation for even 20 seconds? How would it be possible for her to have been injected with a needle without her knowing? It couldn’t happen when she was awake, obviously. Were it done while she was sleeping, it would wake her up and she would see the “needle person.”

So are we meant to think that she was unknowingly drugged into a stupor and then needled? But if they could drug her without her knowledge while awake (through her food or drink, say), why would they then need to needle her as well?

Of course I don’t believe a word of this story. But even if I wanted to, I don’t know how I could even reasonably begin to comprehend it.

I think it was made up entirely, in order to dupe some folks into feeling pity and thus enlisting support. But I suppose there could be the tiniest grain of truth in it: that is, that she herself had created those needle marks prior to her arrest via drug use and needed a story to explain them.

I have a needling feeling that like so many other ridiculous things she has alleged to date, this could be used against her at trial as just one more proof that she lies without any compunction or even intelligent thought.

BBM. It doesn't apply to this case, but I did see not too long ago a true crime show in which a male nurse killed a girl who had rejected him by injecting her with arsenic. They think he told her he was going to give her an injection to treat her migraines. He fled the country, but eventually they got him.
And another male nurse injected a different drug (a paralyzing one) into his wife ( a politician in Arizona) and her ex-husband. They convicted him in her death.

 

[Orange Tabby]

I'm under the impression her neck was broken after she died in order for them to get her in the suitcase. It's called internal decapitation.

What a gruesome concept: internal decapitation. Thanks for this information, I’d never heard of that.

The reason I suggested that the injury to the vertebra was part of the murderous attack was this line from the Sydney Morning Herald on the 16th of last month, which reported some of the autopsy findings: “The head of forensics at Bali’s Sanglah morgue [Dr Ida Bagus Putu Alit] said another blow from an as-yet unidentified weapon had also smashed one of the vertebrae in former Chicago resident Sheila Von Weise-Mack’s neck.” See:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/autopsy...phyxiation-20140816-104y3z.html#ixzz3C6VfOnCh

I know pathologists are accustomed to explaining how they conclude that certain injuries are premortem, perimortem, and postmortem. The testimony at trial of how and when this particular injury occurred will certainly be sober and saddening.

 

[Quester]

The following are from The Bali Times:

1) Police Not Yet Reveals Motive in the Murder of American
9/1/14: http://www.thebalitimes.com/2014/09/01/police-not-yet-reveals-motive-in-the-murder-of-american/

... “The motive should be collected from the back. Means that the data should be seen in America,” he said. Therefore, the investigation was helped by the presence of a United States’ Federal Bureau of Investigation or FBI who helped police unravel the murder case. “FBI helped to provide technical assistance in the form of input towards case investigation if we are lacking of information, for example,” he said. The FBI, he said, would help the process from the crime scene until the investigation but would not intervene in the legal process in Indonesia. ...

* * *
2) FBI Officer Did Not Intervene In Murder Probe: Police
8/25/14: http://www.thebalitimes.com/2014/08/25/fbi-officer-did-not-intervene-in-murder-probe-police/

* * *
3) 15 Foreign Prisoners Gets Remission
8/25/14: http://www.thebalitimes.com/2014/08/25/15-foreign-prisoners-gets-remission/

... Currently, there are 885 inmates registered at the largest penitentiary in Bali, which this means the have exceeded the capacity of the 323 people. Of that number as many as 58 inmates are prisoners are foreigners.

* * *
4) Police Investigate Suspected Murderer of American in Bali
8/18/14: http://www.thebalitimes.com/2014/08/18/police-investigate-suspected-murderer-of-american-in-bali/

 

[LinasK]

The following are from The Bali Times:

1) Police Not Yet Reveals Motive in the Murder of American
9/1/14: http://www.thebalitimes.com/2014/09/01/police-not-yet-reveals-motive-in-the-murder-of-american/

... “The motive should be collected from the back. Means that the data should be seen in America,” he said. Therefore, the investigation was helped by the presence of a United States’ Federal Bureau of Investigation or FBI who helped police unravel the murder case. “FBI helped to provide technical assistance in the form of input towards case investigation if we are lacking of information, for example,” he said. The FBI, he said, would help the process from the crime scene until the investigation but would not intervene in the legal process in Indonesia. ...

* * *
2) FBI Officer Did Not Intervene In Murder Probe: Police
8/25/14: http://www.thebalitimes.com/2014/08/25/fbi-officer-did-not-intervene-in-murder-probe-police/

* * *
3) 15 Foreign Prisoners Gets Remission
8/25/14: http://www.thebalitimes.com/2014/08/25/15-foreign-prisoners-gets-remission/

... Currently, there are 885 inmates registered at the largest penitentiary in Bali, which this means the have exceeded the capacity of the 323 people. Of that number as many as 58 inmates are prisoners are foreigners.

* * *
4) Police Investigate Suspected Murderer of American in Bali
8/18/14: http://www.thebalitimes.com/2014/08/18/police-investigate-suspected-murderer-of-american-in-bali/

Very glad to hear the FBI is not intervening and that they won't be brought back to the US for trial, since the murder was committed in Indonesia. I also think Heather fancies herself another Amanda Knox. (Only Amanda is guilty too, not just my opinion, and will eventually be extradicted back to Italy).

 

[Quester]

You know I've gone through every picture I can of the two of them at the time of their arrests, combing over and blowing up pics of their hands, arms and faces and I cannot see one mark on either of them that indicates that Sheila fought back. Was she taken by surprise with the very first blow and that rendered her helpless? Did she put her arms up only to try to shield her face which got her the wounds on her forearms and the broken finger?

MOO

Jumping off ...

And what about the bruises on SWM's wrists? Was someone holding on to her while ...

... 'Looking at the wounds, the victim must have fought back,' said [IBA], adding that one of her fingers on her left hand was broken and there were bruises on her wrists.

8/13/14: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dy-stuffed-suitcase-outside-5-star-hotel.html
​

 

[SouthAussie]

There's nothing to indicate that she has laringytis from screaming. She may just have a virus. And if she has a sore throat she may have asked for something cold and soothing like ice cream. Bali LE may still be catering to her to get her to talk. Is that news.com.au site kind of like Australia's National Enquirer or Daily Mail?

While I believe she can be a handful, I'd like to hear an LE rep talk about her "demands" rather than an unamed source to a news source that may be big on exaggerating headlines for page clicks.

MOO

BBM: No, not a National Enquirer type. It is one of the major MSM here, and part of the Channel 9 news network. Very typical main-stream.

They have either had leaked info from police or a jail guard, or have seen Heather's lawyer visiting her and carrying icecream imo. Now that she has an Indonesian lawyer, Heather has someone to cater to her dietary wishes. I'm just hoping that Heather's lawyer is not able to 'visit' Tommy or have someone else visit Tommy, and pass info between the two.

 

[Mountain Misst]

Jumping off your post Quester - BBM

...evidence in the form of surveillance cameras or CCTV at the St. Regis Hotel, Nusa Dua, a suitcase belonging to Tommy

...They are reluctant to give information to investigators because they wanted a lawyer from the United States and refused to accept legal aid lawyer appointed by the Denpasar Police.
Artana also confirmed that they will not be accompanied by a lawyer from the United States as demanded.
Denpasar Police itself has appointed local lawyer Haposan Sihombing to provide legal assistance to the two suspects.

http://www.thebalitimes.com/2014/09/01/police-not-yet-reveals-motive-in-the-murder-of-american/

Djoko stated that Tommy had not admitted to the crime. “Tommy claimed that some people had locked Weise in her room. According to Tommy, six people had brought machete and asked for money. However, police did not find any evidence to prove his testimony,” Djoko said.

http://www.thebalitimes.com/2014/08/18/police-investigate-suspected-murderer-of-american-in-bali/

 

[gitana1]

Hi all...another new user here, a former Oak Park resident. As most others, I find this to be a most disturbing story of people who were once my neighbors, although I didn't know them (lived several blocks away). Thank you for such thoughtful and respectful discussion.

:welcome4:

I have a question for the attorneys. Sheila seemed to have an awful foreshadowing of events to come as she insisted police document Heather's threat a few years back.
As reported is several news accounts "In April 2011, von Wiese Mack reported to police that her daughter threatened to "stop leaving bruises and just hit her in the head," which was exactly how Sheila was murdered.
Could this be considered premeditation? Can Bali officials subpoena American police records and use this to build a premeditation case?

I think the FBI will make sure the Balinese officials have everything they request. I don;t know the rules of evidence in Indonesia. In the US, evidence of prior bad acts does not come in, typically, to prove the current crime charged. I don't believe this evidence demonstrates premeditation. It just demonstrates she's capable of harming her mother and that could help a case of second or first degree murder, because it shows she's able to harm her mom and willing to, not some wilting wallflower who could never do something so terrible.

Warning: there are a couple of sentences in my post which contain discussion of the murder that some people might find disturbing.

Gitana1, there are so many insightful posters on this thread. You are one of those who has taught me a lot about this case. Thank you. (And thank you to all the others, too.)

I think you have bored into one of the most important queries in this case. Your question could be asked about either of them.

One of the aspects of the murder which I believe the authorities have purposely left vague concerns precisely how they believe the attack transpired. There are a couple of facts alleged (not yet proven, of course) which interest me:

1. Police claim there are two murder weapons: an ashtray (or ornament) and a vase.

2. Reports say that Sheila suffered multiple blows to her face, including the fatal trauma to her nose which caused her to asphyxiate. She also had her neck broken as the result of a smashed vertebra.

I have taken these things in concert to suggest that there were two attackers, each with their own weapon. One attacked from the front, creating the facial head injuries and, speculatively, one attacked from behind, destroying the vertebra.

One weakness in my theory is that I have no idea if there is evidence of blunt force trauma inflicted from behind the victim. Moreover, am I correct that it is possible to break someone’s neck during a blunt force frontal assault?

Two weapons, coupled with two silent suspects—those facts alone have surely kept the police from readily assuming a single assailant.

I don't know! I'm a legal person not medical. Someone else will know much better than I!

 

[Kamille]

Wouldn't someone from the US Embassy be asked to talk to them and tell them that a lawyer is not coming from the US and has no jurisdiction to do so anyway? I wonder if Tommy has been able to communicate with his mother. She still seems to think that she can provide legal counsel for her son with enough funds. Has she told him to hold out until she can send help? Is she in constant contact with the Embassy getting advice on how best to help her son?

Are there higher paid defense attorney's in Bali who can successfully argue away evidence against their client, better than a public defender, that a westerner can hire? Does it really make a difference considering the evidence that they have in the form of CCTV surveillance and fingerprints? Plus the completely implausible story that the two of them made up about the gang and the robbery?

Reminds me so much of Joran Van Der Sloot. All his money on a local attorney did absolutely nothing. The CCTV and his implausible story about a gang and a robbery gave him away too.

MOO

 

[newone]

HM's nail polish appeared perfect. Could she have put it on at the hotel in Kuta? Otherwise, I'm thinking those perfectly polished nails could help her.
I wonder if this girl picked up after herself at all. Even my polish after a week's vacation isn't perfect.

I hope they photographed her nails close-up and the do show chips and breaks.

I don't know how many hours elapsed after their departure from Regis to second hotel but they must have had some time and money to (a) check into a second hotel and (b) stop at a mani/pedi salon - abundant and cheap in Bali? MOO

I can really envision (b) as very possible - hope they (LE) have made inquiries.

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm under the impression her neck was broken after she died in order for them to get her in the suitcase. It's called internal decapitation.

“The head of forensics at Bali’s Sanglah morgue [Dr Ida Bagus Putu Alit] said another blow from an as-yet unidentified weapon had also smashed one of the vertebrae in former Chicago resident Sheila Von Weise-Mack’s neck.”

Both of these statements could be true. The blow that smashed one of the vertebrae could have been post-mortem. Required to force Sheila to fit into the suitcase.

Heather was known for her tantrums - which included throwing things - and her prior malicious actions towards her mother .. breaking an arm, kicking a broken ankle, bruising her. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the attack to the face, which ultimately caused Sheila's death, started with the throwing of a heavy object at Sheila's face.

I also would not be surprised if neighbouring rooms heard a loud fight, after CCTV caught Sheila and Heather entering the room, then after neighbours said it quieted down CCTV caught Tommy entering the room. (There is a report that says he entered the room by 'either using a key or knocking'.) And the clean-up/cover-up began.

Those statements that I re-read about police initially believing Heather was the perp say that it was after initial 'inquiries' .. not after (CCTV) investigation. Though, of course, that could just be MSM wording.

Friends have reported that Mack’s personality was unpredictable and she would throw tantrums — screaming and throwing objects until she got her way.

http://www.news.com.au/world/heathe...la-von-wiesemack/story-fndir2ev-1227024982347

 

[meganx3xo]

HM's nail polish appeared perfect. Could she have put it on at the hotel in Kuta? Otherwise, I'm thinking those perfectly polished nails could help her.
I wonder if this girl picked up after herself at all. Even my polish after a week's vacation isn't perfect.

I hope they photographed her nails close-up and the do show chips and breaks.

Before I go on a long vacation, I'll usually go to a salon and get a "gelish" mani- it is suppose to last up to 2 weeks and is much more durable than regular nail polish.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RR0004]

I wondered about the "needle marks" too. I figured it was her lame attempt to blame any bruises or scratches on the authorities (and not as evidence of her participation in the killing). Take a vague comment about needle marks and it can be developed many ways later by a defendant who is a lying liar who lies.

Could it have been the prison staff, the criminal gang who kidnapped them or even aliens who drugged her and made her commit the crime? Cuz you just know that lil angel (HM) didn't do it, no way!

I think HM and TS were both grandiose posers, both playing up how much a "baller" they were, both acting as if they were "all that". They were both quite delusional and in the end, it cost SVM her life and hopefully keeps TS and HM in their new prison cells for many years to come.

LOL- re: the needle marks, I thought she was trying to imply they drugged her with a truth serum to get answers from her.