GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #3

[LinasK]

Thanks Quester and Tabby! This is one slick piece of writing, oh, I smell the fine hands of lawyers. Hmmm...so much to take in. To what degree is provocation a mitigating factor under Bali law? Very interesting. So, let's get this straight. Shelia was up at 3:45a because she didn't know where HM was. Sooo...at some point Heather returns to 317. Sheila makes the call to the desk for her wakeup call, then HM, in short order calls TM and urges him to come visit her Mother, despite the fact SWM has approximately 1 1/4 hours of sleep, urging him to come and visit her Mother (because this makes so much sense when her Mom has asked to be awakened at 10a.m, but no matter) and to come bearing a gift because Mom is a thief and steals from the hotels they stay in anyhow. Moving on, Tommy hides the bowl, because it's a surprise gift...how thoughtful!! Once in the room, discussion begins with the bi-polar SWM calling TS racists names and tells them she is going to kill their beloved baby and then proceeds to attack TS by trying to strangle and choke him. TS, presumably, having not had time to present his peace offering, strikes the first blow at which time HM exits into the bathroom, only to come out when the deed is done and hugs her Mom's lifeless body so remorseful she is, at least this is as best she can remember it, because after all, it was all just a blur. And to top it off, she has been so grief stricken she has been unable to eat and has been hospitalized and there is great fear for the unborn baby and of course the endangerment of Heather's life.

I can't wait until I can get back in here later see how others have interpreted this article, I am by nature cynical and even more so on Mondays.

BBM. Yeah, I'm not buying it!!!:hand::snooty::liar::fishy::nono:

 

[FormerOakParker]

(bolding mine)

That's the saddest part about this whole affair. There is no one there to defend SWM or to speak on her behalf.

Yes, this blaming the victim thing (making SvWM a crazy, violent, baby-killer, racist, foul-mouthed thief) is disgusting ad doesn't diminish the horror of this crime. Don't believe for an instant that HM hugged her bloodied dead mom out of shock and grief.

 

[SouthAussie]

OMG ... did we not predict that HM would say that she was hiding and quivering in fear in the bathroom?!!! Why would she even think of running out of the room screaming for help? Or leaning out of a window or over a balcony and screaming for help? Or picking up the darn phone? No, better to wait around and cry in the bathroom while your mother is being attacked and murdered. Then hug her close before you tape her up, help stuff her into a suitcase, and go and get a trolley to wheel her down to the pre-ordered taxi.

I'll bet she wasn't acting like a 'robot' when she tried to get her passport from the lockbox. Or when she tried to get a replacement passport at the airport. Or when she told police to take her to the embassy. Or when she explained how a gang of six men attacked her mother, as she was smoking cigarettes in the safety of the police station.

No, she had plenty of opportunity to help her mother, and to come clean, before they settled on this contrived story. Which I'm sure that police will point out to the judges.

I doubt that this will work, Schapelle didn't put all that cannabis in her boogie board bag either ... must have been the baggage handlers, or someone else ... and she still went to Kerobokan. (It was her lawyer who spun a baggage-handlers-did-it story - which he admitted later in Australia, after the trial was done and dusted.)

I would love to hear from Tommy's lawyer. What does he have to say?

 

[nightwatch]

My response to this latest nonsense is judges will hear this case not a gullible jury picked by lawyers.

HM must not realize her story has already been told through 80plus police reports of violence against her mother. Clearly TS was a fool for being sucked into free living and perceived easy money. I'm patiently waiting for the prosecutor's case.

I sure would like to read the autopsy report that was done stateside along with the FBI report. Never happen would be a good read though . Jmo


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/indonesia-slaying-legal-system-20140816-story.html


ciao

 

[LinasK]

Yes, this blaming the victim thing (making SvWM a crazy, violent, baby-killer, racist, foul-mouthed thief) is disgusting ad doesn't diminish the horror of this crime. Don't believe for an instant that HM hugged her bloodied dead mom out of shock and grief.

She probably had to explain why she was bloody/ her DNA was on her mom. Kinda like the Ramsey's hugging JonBenet to corrupt the crime scene.

 

[Mountain Misst]

:wave: You may be right, however ...

1. I've only seen, what looks like, one yellow plastic bag/material. It has been shown in a photo filled with the item/s and, in another photo, emptied of its contents.
2. Note the caption on the referenced photo: "... above, police inspect the suitcase in which her mother's body was found".
3. By zooming in as much as possible, what looks like duct tape is visible through the yellow plastic material and securing what is probably a sheet. What looks like blood is also visible near the duct tape.

Why plastic wrap linens/towels in the large suitcase but not in the other suitcases?
[Though some linens/towels may have been placed in the St R laundry bag of which we've seen a picture.]

If the yellow plastic material contained linens, why secure them with duct tape?

BBM IMO - the words in that quote attached to the image, don't match the contents - that is not the silver suitcase. The suitcase in that photo is blue/green/teal - it's a flying duck.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...uffed-suitcase-murder-Bali-flown-Chicago.html

 

[Mountain Misst]

Except it sounds like he did have the entire fruit bowl under his shirt. Which makes more sense as far as CCTV being able to see him hiding something. He likely didn't get access to just the metal handle until the bowl was broken, presumably in SWM's room. Now was it broken by hitting her with it or was it broken on something hard to get at the metal?

Who would think of this in an argument? Why would he still be holding the bowl beside her bed if it was an "offering"? Why would SWM attack a man a foot taller than her for getting her 18yr old legal age daughter pregnant. Why would she do it with the other person who constantly attacked her in the room? In all 86 reports, not once did HM claim SWM was violent or laid a hand on her did she?

I'm sure we'll all be able to poke dozens of holes in this story before Bali LE unleash their bombshell evidence. If they do.

To be honest, my concern is that they just don't really have a big interest in this case and they don't want to be bothered holding these two for any length of time and dealing with an American being pregnant in their prison, not to mention a spoiled princess one. I'm worried that they'll just accept the story, get HM out of their hair by letting her go and giving TS the minimum 15 years, with the possibility of less time for good behavior. HM will inherit her mothers money because there is no conviction and she'll use it to raise her child and "wait for TS" to get out of prison so they can be together. Just like a bad movie of the week.

MOO

My theory for today - TS took the fruit bowl up to the other room (potential fencing stolen goods - by giving to 'M-I-L') and then broke it in an effort to crack the room safe. SWM heard the kerfuffle and came out from bedroom, only to be attacked by TS and HM.

 

[KALI]

Yes, this blaming the victim thing (making SvWM a crazy, violent, baby-killer, racist, foul-mouthed thief) is disgusting ad doesn't diminish the horror of this crime. Don't believe for an instant that HM hugged her bloodied dead mom out of shock and grief.

Yes, it sucks. Hate that defense lawyers do this.

She surely got the blood on her while shoving her Mother in the suitcase!

 

[Hiandmighty]

My theory for today - TS took the fruit bowl up to the other room (potential fencing stolen goods - by giving to 'M-I-L') and then broke it in an effort to crack the room safe. SWM heard the kerfuffle and came out from bedroom, only to be attacked by TS and HM.

It probably never occurred to them to google it and find out that the universal code is 0000 or 9999 to open....

 

[SouthAussie]

The Director of the Asian Law Centre at the University of Melbourne, Tim Lindsey, said in this article (about Schapelle Corby) that these kind of defenses are what an innocent person would say, but that they are also what a guilty person would say. The court would be very aware of that.


Tim Lindsey:Her evidence is based on a flat denial.

That denial is of course quite consistent with innocence, but it is also what you might expect a guilty person to say. That's the problem, it's a real dilemma for her. If she is innocent, (I have no views as to her guilt or innocence) but if she's innocent, that is what she would say; if she's guilty, that's what she would say.

The problem is really you can't expect to succeed in court without hard evidence.

So why should she be treated differently? Then there is that sense that creates - and there's a lot of cynicism in Bali about the behaviour of foreign tourists, and drugs, sex and other things. And I think this huge pressure in the media, the visits of senior figures to Indonesia, lobbying on Corby's behalf, probably is not helping her.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational...sian-legal-system-and-schapelle-corby/3448778


To me, hard evidence would be scratches on Tommy's neck, an attempt by HM to flee the scene and get help, or get help after the fact, CCTV of Tommy forcing HM to wheel the suitcase trolley back to the room ... something .... anything .... to show that she was not a wiling co-perpetrator.

 

[Kamille]

Yes, it sucks. Hate that defense lawyers do this.

She surely got the blood on her while shoving her Mother in the suitcase!

I think it was reported that TS had some blood on his jacket but how much blood did he have on his clothing? Why does it sound like HM's whole shirt was blood covered and TS had a bit of blood on his clothes? How is this possible if he was the one who hit SWM four times and stuffed her in the suitcase? And where did HM go when TS was stuffing her in the suitcase? We've heard two different stories of her helping and not helping.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Why wasn't HM eating or drinking and had to go to the hospital for three days? Perhaps she misses the KFC meals? :giggle:

MOO

 

[Orange Tabby]

Tommy’s confession attempts two things: to save himself from life in prison or the death penalty and to save Heather from any penalty at all.

For a man potentially facing the firing squad (not his usual dope squad), I think he made a big mistake by trying to save Heather. And, paradoxically, by trying to save her he may have made things worse for her. (Not that I’m crying over that.)

The more holes the police and prosecution can punch in that story, the more likely it becomes that the panel of judges will disbelieve it in its entirety and instead subscribe to a theory of joint participation and premeditation.

Within hours, even minutes, of the confession story breaking in the Sydney Morning Herald, sleuths here pointed out numerous problems with the story. Assuming the police have important evidence not yet made public, I assume they will have found even more holes.

As a purely practical matter, if you are lying to save your skin you should lie as little as possible. Every chink in your story reduces its overall credibility.

By concocting a story which ties lack of premeditation with an absence of Heather’s involvement, they pile on too many lies and risk losing both arguments. This is was a foolhardy choice. Tommy’s lawyer did him a disservice by not talking him out of this. (Not that I’m crying over that, either.)

Heather’s greed appears to be matched by her incredibly narcissistic belief that she ought not to be held accountable for her actions. She may think she is clever and will escape punishment. But I believe there’s a real chance that by not owning up to her culpability, instead of getting off scott free, she will be sentenced to life in prison, and just possibly worse.

I don’t think either of them ever had a chance of getting away with it. They both would have done better by telling a story as close to the truth as possible, lying only about their claims that show the murder to be spontaneous. Doing that, I believe, was their only hope of getting 15 years each, which is the best they could have ever hoped for. Two months in jail may have been an education for both of them, but it hasn’t made them any smarter.

 

[SouthAussie]

Why wasn't HM eating or drinking and had to go to the hospital for three days? Perhaps she misses the KFC meals? :giggle:

MOO

:giggle:


Heck .. she's tried lies about sexual assault and mysterious needle marks, she's tried gangs of six men, she's tried crying and having a tantrum, so why not try a hunger strike? And that didn't work either, so now we are on to .. it was all Tommy's doing .. all he wanted to do was give a stolen fruit bowl to my mother because she needed one so much and would love to carry extra unwanted weight home in her suitcase and steal from a posh hotel .. and, and, and .... I was so afraid.

 

[gracehatter]

It probably never occurred to them to google it and find out that the universal code is 0000 or 9999 to open....

But not for the security box behind the desk.

 

[gracehatter]

Do we know what time the three were seen in the lobby having the room/payment dispute?

 

[Kamille]

I never met Shelia, but I know several people that did. They all think that Heather had a very large financial motivation to kill Shelia. There is am assumption that Shelia had some sort of substantial family money. At any rate, prior to moving into the house in Oak Park Shelia and James were living in condominium at the old Mayfair Regent on East Lake Shore Drive. At the time (1993) the least expensive unit cost over a million dollars.

Thanks for your input regarding what you've heard about Sheila and her late husband ItsJustaName. Your post kind of got caught in the middle of the latest article out of Bali and I kept forgetting to get to responding to it.

It's apparent by the property records of 647 Linden that JM and his previous wife split up sometime around April 1992. At the time of the split however, the house was put into JM's name. There was another change in April 1996 when the now ex wife's name was changed back to her maiden name on the property information. However it appears that the house was still only in JM's name. So I suppose it's possible that he lived with Sheila in a downtown condo for a few years while the divorce was going through while his soon to be ex wife and son stayed in the Linden Ave house. I guess the question is whether either SWM or JM owned the condo at the Mayfair Regent. We have found nothing to indicate that either of them owned any other property other than the Linden Ave house, the Hyde Park condo and the Lakeshore Rd condo that SWM was living in at the time of her death? It is entirely possible that they were renting a condo there however. JM likely had more disposable income before his second divorce was finalized.

I really hope that if SWM had some family wealth other than what she obtained during her marriage to James Mack, that this portion of the estate goes to her siblings. Now if she did not and her estate is made up only of the assets that we've gone over on this board from the house belonging to JM, a cheaper condo that he owned and the settlement in the lawsuit against the cruise line, I hope that this portion estate is split amongst JM's other 4 children. HM is deserving of nothing, other than a lifelong stay in a Bali prison as an indigent resident.

http://chicago.blockshopper.com/property/16064140090000/647_linden

MOO

 

[Orange Tabby]

[SBM]
I'll bet she wasn't acting like a 'robot' when she tried to get her passport from the lockbox. Or when she tried to get a replacement passport at the airport. Or when she told police to take her to the embassy. Or when she explained how a gang of six men attacked her mother, as she was smoking cigarettes in the safety of the police station.

Heather’s intense belief in her own entitlement is absolutely remarkable. She thinks she can make up any old lie and people will believe it.

Going further to your excellent points above, SouthAussie, it would be interesting to know what various people witnessed in Heather’s behavior in the aftermath the murder. Did the taxi driver observe that it was Heather who was taking charge (and not Tommy) in their dealings with him? Was Heather composed and adamant about getting into the hotel lockbox at the lobby and was Tommy merely passively present? Was Tommy with Heather when it was her (not him) assuring hotel staff that there was no problem with the sheet-wrapped suitcase on the trolley? Did Heather do all the talking at the airport when attempting to get a new passport? Was it Heather who talked their way into get checked in at the hotel where they were arrested? Did all or even just some of these people witness her “in charge,” focused, and animated and not the least bit robotic?

I would not be surprised in the least should it turn out that there are many Bali witnesses who will say that Heather appeared to be the dominant member of this pair.

 

[Quester]

Do we know what time the three were seen in the lobby having the room/payment dispute?

Nope ... not yet.

I'm betting the argument happened close to the 3:48am time when SWM was seen in the lobby on CCTV. JMO

 

[Kamille]

Do we know what time the three were seen in the lobby having the room/payment dispute?

Didn't that last article claim that he got there around 2am? And that HM went to go meet him? And that SWM went looking for HM? So are they saying that SWM was in her room until sometime after 2am when she went looking for HM? According to other articles, SWM entered her room alone at 3:48am. So are we to assume this lobby argument happened sometime between 2am and 3:45am and SWM then walked through the lobby to the elevator and went to her room alone.

So what time did HM eventually make it back to SWM's room? And why? Why wouldn't she had just stayed with TS? Did she go to TS's room at any point before the murder? She must have.

And another question, what was so special about the fruit bowl in TS's room that made him think that SWM would want to steal it from the hotel? Didn't she have one of her own? And if they only have one big suitcase between them, how the heck was she supposed to get all these stolen items home?

MOO