GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #4

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
Close! I think it was the other way around.

I believe the family name originally was von Weise and the 'von' got dropped. IIRC, Sheila decided to start using it again as an adult.
 
Didnt they give the cocaine trafficking grandma the death sentence in this country last year. These kids are in for a rude awakening.
 
FigTree said:
Just wondering why its not William von Wiese?
Where does the 'Von' come from?
Click to expand...

I don't remember the details, but Sheila added the "von" herself well into adulthood. Pretentious, in my view, but she had an explanation which I don't recall.

Bottom line: her birth certificate doesn't have the "von". And so her siblings don't have it either. (In addition to her brother I think she has one sister, but I'm sure about that.)
 
Orange Tabby said:
I don't remember the details, but Sheila added the "von" herself well into adulthood. Pretentious, in my view, but she had an explanation which I don't recall.

Bottom line: her birth certificate doesn't have the "von". And so her siblings don't have it either. (In addition to her brother I think she has one sister, but I'm sure about that.)
Click to expand...

I think Von Wiese is the family name but the Von was dropped likely when the first member of the Von Wiese family immigrated to America. I think it was in an article about her that she decided to pick it back up again. Maybe that original article from that club? Anyway, it appears she had also dropped the Mack name.

MOO
 
Kamille said:
I feel the same way. For whatever reason, I feel that TS is the lesser evil in this duo and was coerced into this by HM for the usual incredibly stupid hormonal reasons of youth. Even though he was the one who ultimately murdered Sheila, if he is sentenced to die for this crime, she should be too. Although I'd like to see him shun HM in a very public way during these court appearances and refuse to be manipulated by her any more to show he has some remorse over what happened and how stupid he was.

MOO
Click to expand...

No way am I letting this guy off the hook due to "stupidity" "hormones" "youth", whatever. He is no more a victim of Heather than she is a victim of herself, IMO. He brutally and viciously beat an older woman to death with an object in his hand. He savagely struck her over and over again, as she desperately struggled to live.

He then stuffed her body in a suitcase, tried to transport it and calmly screwe d his girlfriend as the body lay rotting in the case. Then he went to sleep.

This does not point to a confused young man led astray. It points to a hideous, ruthless and remorseless killer. He's sad because he got caught. I think these two are peas in a pod.
 
Orange Tabby said:
....Strictly speaking, we don’t know who prepared the trust for Sheila....
We don’t know a lot about how Sheila planned for her death.... Jon Seidel of the Chicago Sun-Times reported several things on August 25 of last year, including the following:
Sheila von Wiese-Mack’s will was filed late last week by Lance Taylor, an Oak Park attorney, more than a week after Indonesian authorities took von Wiese-Mack’s 18-year-old daughter and her boyfriend into custody in connection with the woman’s death.
Taylor said only that he did estate planning in 2006 for von Wiese-Mack and her husband, the late James L. Mack.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/29478084-418/will-of-chicago-mother-slain-in-bali-filed-in-court.html#.VE3Us65GRak ....​
Click to expand...
bbm sbm

Thanks, Orange Tabby, for your response above. Getting fuzzy on some details from months back.

IIRC, per some states' laws, an atty/law firm holding original signed will who learns of client-testator's death,
is obligated to file will w probate ct (or equivalent ct).
So, imo, above atty/law firm - Lance Taylor, was likely atty/law firm that drafted mom's will and
retained original will in firm's vault/files, and then filed Mom's will w IL ct.

Which does not definitively answer question about which atty drafted trust for Mom.

JM2cts and I c/be wrong.



​
 
gitana1 said:
no way am i letting this guy off the hook due to "stupidity" "hormones" "youth", whatever. He is no more a victim of heather than she is a victim of herself, imo. He brutally and viciously beat an older woman to death with an object in his hand. He savagely struck her over and over again, as she desperately struggled to live.

He then stuffed her body in a suitcase, tried to transport it and calmly screwe d his girlfriend as the body lay rotting in the case. Then he went to sleep.

This does not point to a confused young man led astray. It points to a hideous, ruthless and remorseless killer. He's sad because he got caught. I think these two are peas in a pod.
Click to expand...

thank you! Birds of a Feather...and all that
 
SouthAussie said:
I see a couple of Indonesian articles about the trust money being used for HM's defence .... I also see that they do not mention Mr Wiese's fear of the money being used for corrupt purposes.

http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/news/bali-murder-accused-wins-us-estate-funds/
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...-stay-teens-trial-over-moms-killing-bali.html
Click to expand...

Nice pickup SA - seems its not what you read in this case, but what's left out.

I wonder how the new 'Find-A-Lawyer' is coming along.
I'm sceptical. I wonder if the new lawyer will need to be approved - and if so, what is the process.

I also wondered how easy it is just to dismiss an already appointed Lawyer to replace them with another.
Is this buying time - or delaying the process?
 
I think this is a bit different from a client dismissing an attorney after trial has begun.

Technically, the trial has started and HM can't pay her attorney and until Cohen's ruling, there was no guarantee she would ever be able to pay him. Under those circumstances, I can see an attorney (in Indonesia or the US) asking to be released from the case.

Re: TS. I'm assuming he's still being represented by Nasrution, who I think he/they found through Reprieve. I'm guessing that attorney is free and he's getting the representation solely because it's a death penalty case.

I wonder if his mother realized how long the trial might take. Is she really in a position to stay in Bali that long? You can live very inexpensively, but it still adds up.

I thought TS looked noticeably worse in court than he did just recently when he and HM were briefly reunited in the prosecutor's office, and walking into court they barely acknowleged each other. I wondered if it was the approaching trial, but then it hit me: between the reunion pics and now, he was transferred to Kerobokan.

By all accounts, HM's stay in Kerobokan, at least initially, is going to be better than TS's. IIRC, she goes straight to a 'maternity' cell, not as crowded as the regular women's cells. It's hard to find info/pictures that actually show the men's side, but supposedly the men are initially put in some kind of very crowded 'holding cell' for a length of time. Anyone who can buys his way out and gets put into a regular cell - likely much more crowded than HM's accommodations. Plus, no matter what she thinks of conditions in Kerobokan, HM is convinced she's only there for a short time. TS knows there isn't enough corruption even in Bali to spring him.
 
gitana1 said:
No way am I letting this guy off the hook due to "stupidity" "hormones" "youth", whatever. He is no more a victim of Heather than she is a victim of herself, IMO. He brutally and viciously beat an older woman to death with an object in his hand. He savagely struck her over and over again, as she desperately struggled to live.

He then stuffed her body in a suitcase, tried to transport it and calmly screwe d his girlfriend as the body lay rotting in the case. Then he went to sleep.

This does not point to a confused young man led astray. It points to a hideous, ruthless and remorseless killer. He's sad because he got caught. I think these two are peas in a pod.
Click to expand...

Not suggesting he get a pass at all for what he did. He is the actual murderer in this scenario it seems. But it wasn't his idea that Sheila had to die. He was coerced IMO. He's still a brutal murderer with no compassion. What I feel, however, is that he is the lesser "evil" of the two and while he deserves the ultimate penalty for first degree premeditated murder, so does she. It's looking like she might just actually walk from this. No way is that justice. She deserves the same. They were in this together even if only one did the bludgeoning. I believe HM was right there by his side egging him on.

MOO
 
al66pine said:
bbm sbm

Thanks, Orange Tabby, for your response above. Getting fuzzy on some details from months back.

IIRC, per some states' laws, an atty/law firm holding original signed will who learns of client-testator's death,
is obligated to file will w probate ct (or equivalent ct).
So, imo, above atty/law firm - Lance Taylor, was likely atty/law firm that drafted mom's will and
retained original will in firm's vault/files, and then filed Mom's will w IL ct.

Which does not definitively answer question about which atty drafted trust for Mom.

JM2cts and I c/be wrong.



[/INDENT]
Click to expand...

There were two different filings for Sheila. One by Lance Taylor (2014-W-006390) and another by Frank Salerno (2014-W-007014). So it appears that LT filed the original will from 2006 and FS filed the amended will from 2014 where she put everything into a trust.

MOO
 
Kamille said:
Not suggesting he get a pass at all for what he did. He is the actual murderer in this scenario it seems. But it wasn't his idea that Sheila had to die. He was coerced IMO. He's still a brutal murderer with no compassion. What I feel, however, is that he is the lesser "evil" of the two and while he deserves the ultimate penalty for first degree premeditated murder, so does she. It's looking like she might just actually walk from this. No way is that justice. She deserves the same. They were in this together even if only one did the bludgeoning. I believe HM was right there by his side egging him on.

MOO
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more.

I don't think TS would have committed murder if he had never met HM. I think he was on a rebound when he met HM, she probably appeared to be a replacement for his lost girlfriend (who came from a wealthy family). It all moved way too fast. He may have had momentary second thoughts when he contacted an old friend and asked to visit. He's guilty, for sure, but I don't think he would have cold-bloodedly planned a murder on his own. I think he's a follower. I wonder what he thought when he realized HM really did think he was a 'bad boy' because she assumed he'd know who could do a 'job' for $50K.

HM? She's got a nasty violent streak, as well as an uncanny ability to manipulate people around her. Elkin's never going to admit it, but she used him and Flavia just as she used TS. She's scary dangerous: she lost it briefly when she was arrested and didn't get bailed out immediately, but throughout it all, the only tears she's shed have been tears of anger and frustration, and there's absolutely no sign of remorse.
 
I think the judge (or the new trustee) would probably be satisfied with any lawyer that Reprieve recommended. It would be interesting to know if Soenardi is on the list of lawyers that the embassy provides - or what criteria the embassy uses to decide who to recommend.

If the judge isn't careful, the new lawyer will just be a front for Soenardi and the process will still be tainted.
 
Orange Tabby said:
First Day of the Trial

I’ve been re-reading some of the accounts of the first day of the trial and a few things perplex me. My thoughts:

Two Trials
Why are Heather and Tommy being tried separately? Is this standard in a One-of-Them-Did-It and The-Other-One-Was-an-Accomplice case in Indonesia? Is this arrangement better for prosecutors if one defendant decides to change his story? (Obviously, I’m thinking of Tommy.) If Heather isn’t in Tommy’s courtroom, will he be more likely to testify to more damaging things against her? Or is this arrangement unusual? If so, why are they being tried separately?

Motive
On the one hand, prosecutors argue that the murder was premeditated. They say there is evidence that Heather offered to pay $50,000 to have her mother murdered, and that Heather and Tommy considered specific plans, such as suffocating Sheila with a pillow. On the other hand, when describing the actual murder, the prosecutor appears to believe the “Sheila called Tommy a naughty name” argument (which I don’t believe for one minute) and that this enraged the young couple, causing Heather to say that she wanted her mother dead and Tommy to brutally assault her.

Am I the only one who finds this a confusing position for the prosecution? Did they premeditate the murder or was it a crime committed during an argument when passions were running high? It seems like the prosecutor is arguing both of these things. While it is possible they premeditated a murder but never settled on details and ended up killing their victim in a rage, isn’t it far more likely that the rage story is a cover-up, given that they actively plotted Sheila’s death? Isn’t it giving the defendants a big helping hand to accept the “lost control in a moment of anger” story? Or is this just a kitchen sink approach to motive, where the prosecution throws in everything and lets the judges decide?

How the Murder Happened
Prosecutors alleged that Schaefer, who wept as he entered court, "blindly hit" Von Wiese Mack with a bowl in a fit of rage after she directed a racial slur at him during an argument...

"The defendant, overwhelmed with emotion and anger, picked up the glass fruit bowl and swung it at her face," ...

"Wiese tried to push the handle towards Schaefer and it hit his mouth, making him angrier and more emotional. Using both hands, Schaefer blindly hit her as hard as he could between her eyes and nose with the fruit bowl." He then continued hitting her face on the bed "until she stopped moving", he added. [Source: Agence France Presse]​

This follows directly from the last point. Why are the prosecutors accepting everything in Tommy's and Heather's accounts as fact? That Sheila used a racial slur? That Tommy acted in anger and not as the result of advance planning? That Tommy was never spurred on by Heather? That Sheila’s self-defense actually is an excuse for further attacks by Tommy? Are the prosecutors really conceding all these points?

Heather’s Role
“The indictment said that 19-year-old Heather Mack hid in the bathroom during the attack before the couple stuffed the victim's body in a suitcase.” [Source: Agence France Presse]​

Do the prosecutors actually accept Heather’s story???

Indonesian Approach
Is it possible that Indonesian prosecutors are bound to include in their initial presentation the best possible case for the defendants and that the arguments highlighted above are not part of the prosecution case, and the prosecutors do not believe them, but are included as a matter of procedure? Otherwise, I cannot understand how they can cede so much ground in the very opening moments of the trial. Yet the news reports read as if the prosecutors accept nearly everything the two defendants have said. I don’t get it.

I drew up these notes earlier today and was going to sleep on it before posting. But now I wonder if some of you good people are going to tell me that at least some of this stuff could be explained by a potential bribe in the amount, say, of US$150,000! Surely that would be too blatant, yes?

Agence France Presse story here (previously cited on this board): http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/us-couple-go-on-trial/1590464.html
Click to expand...

I think they just lost patience and were waiting for any opportunity to kill her. I have no problems with their case. It's almost never perfectly logical in any case.
 
Judge Cohen approves Ary Soenardi

Shocking news from a Chicago courtroom: Cook County Judge Neil Cohen has ruled today that Sheila’s trust fund can be used by Heather to pay Indonesian attorney Ary Soenardi to serve as her defense lawyer.

Here are some excerpts from a report in the Chicago Sun-Times by Jon Seidel:

On Tuesday, Cohen …[gave] Mack the go-ahead to pay Bali attorney Ary Soenardi — but with conditions.

At the Daley Center hearing, Cohen approved $150,000 from the fund for Mack’s defense, but said Soenardi must provide an itemized bill. The money can’t be used to pay for the defense of Mack’s co-defendant and boyfriend, Tommy Schaefer, Cohen ruled.

Mack insisted on that attorney, and Cohen ruled she’s entitled to the attorney of her choice.

Benjamin Mackoff, who is serving as interim trustee for the trust, said that when it comes to to Mack and Soenardi, “she is definitely within his control. She refuses to have any other attorney.”

Mack will also get $2,240 from the fund to pay for her next four months’ worth of food.​

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news-ch...paid-trust-fund-murder-defendant-heather-mack
 
Not sure if anyone has posted this yet:

Last week, Cook County Judge Neil H. Cohen said accused murderer Heather Mack’s Bali attorney couldn’t be trusted with money from Mack’s $1.56 million trust fund.

On Tuesday, Cohen reversed course, giving Mack the go-ahead to pay Bali attorney Ary Soenardi — but with conditions.
Click to expand...

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news-chicago/7/71/306114/judge-changes-mind-says-bali-attorney-can-paid-trust-fund-murder-defendant-heather-mack
 
Judge Cohen approves Ary Soenardi

Christy Gutowski of the Chicago Tribune has also reported on Judge Neil Cohen’s decision to approve the use of Sheila’s trust fund to pay for Heather’s use of attorney Ary Soenardi for her defense.

Some excerpts from Gutowski's article:

[Cohen] authorized Tuesday the immediate release of $50,000 from a Chicago teen's trust fund …

Three weekly payments of $50,000 will be dispersed, totaling $150,000...

The judge had previously disqualified the Indonesian attorney Mack wants, citing concerns about whether he had ever tried a murder case, but allowed it upon the teen's insistence.

"It's her trust," Cohen said. "It's her money. She has a right to counsel of her choice."

Cohen also allowed another $2,240 to be released to Mack for her food and medical expenses.

Attorney Vanessa Favia, … said authorities provide two basic meals a day but that Mack has complained other detainees steal her food or it is otherwise not provided.​

http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-82580594/
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is DeKalb County John Doe (2022)?

Members online

... and 68 more.
Total: 3,244 (members: 69, guests: 3,175)

Online statistics

Members online
69
Guests online
3,175
Total visitors
3,244
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
603,611
Messages
18,159,331
Members
231,786
Latest member
SapphireGem
Back
Top