GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #4

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For me it started because writing svwm was easier than writing out shelia Von Weis mack. (Victim)

Yes, as are as we understand, it's very clear HM (daughter) and TS (boyfriend) were the last to be with her and then are on tape bringing the suitcase down to the taxi. TS was only in Bali about 6 hours so it seems he went there for the point of murdering SVWM.
 
Heather Mackie? Accused of murdering her mother in Indonesia?

It doesn't matter how many attornies Heather Mackie (sp?) has, she is guilty of being in the room at the time that her mother was bludgeoned to death. The same is true for the boyfriend of Sheila's daughter. Shiela's daughter's boyfriend was in the room when she was murdered. So was her daughter.

Who cares if her daughter is pregnant. Apparently the Indonesians are doing a remarkable job of ensuring that the child is born healthy (a necessity in prison). The murderous daughter will appeal for her life, but she and her boyfriend should be imprisoned for murder for life. Their daughter should be allowed to inherit her father's legacy ... which we all know her mother was not looking after ... that is, the mother was not preserving the inheritance for her daughter, she was spending it faster than she could replace it.

Hey otto :seeya: I see Orange Tabby has already explained the initials, it's just easier than typing full names. And of course some initials are to protect the non crimally charged peeps as always. ;)

You might want to get up to speed on some of the recent developments. Looks like Heather Mack has been trying to get access to the estate of her mother, whom she assisted in murdering after texting with her boyfriend about wanting her mother dead, offering $50,000 to hire a hit man, and discussing options for murdering her mother there in Bali, all via texts that have been found between her and Tommy Shaefer. She wants access to the money to likely work a bribe with a corrupt local Bali attorney to get her off on the charges or to get a very light sentence for assisting with the cover up. She originally was trying to get $300,000 for "legal fees" but apparently that has now been reduced to $150,000 which is also a ridiculous amount of money for an attorney in Bali when they do very little in a trial since it's a completely different system (think Van Der Sloot in Peru).

Can't say as I agree that Sheila was spending money faster than she could replace it. I found her to be rather frugal and she has never worked during her marriage to James Mack so I'm not sure how she would "replace" it. But she made some good decisions to try to "preserve" it IMO. James Mack had very little to his name when he passed away and the money from the "estate" was money awarded to him and his wife from a lawsuit that was settled years after his death. His legacy was that he was a respected musician but with a penchant for the ladies which got him a large number of children and ex wives for which I'm sure he paid substantially over the years.

Pretty sure Sheila would rather be alive today than to have won that settlement which prompted her daughter to want her mother dead to cash in herself on that settlement money.

MOO
 
Judge’s Ruling – Chicago Tribune Update

The Chicago Tribune story has been officially “updated,” but I would describe the current story as a complete re-write. There is new info, several elements from the previous story have vanished, and overall the story is more poorly expressed. There’s too much to simply quote. So I’ll summarize some of it and quote some of it.

Summary of some important points:

--Sheila’s trust was to be used for the “health, support, education and maintenance” of Heather. Tribune reporter Christy Gutowski claims that Sheila placed her estate in a trust in May, three months before she died. (I'd like to check my notes on this, as I'm not positive that Gutowski is completely correct.)

--The story says that Judge Cohen has “disqualified her [Heather's] Indonesian attorney.” (This is a very strange way to express things. Judge Cohen can disqualify attorneys in his own courtroom, but not in any courtroom in Indonesia. Gutowski is probably trying to say that Cohen won't approve of trust funds going to this attorney, which really is a different matter.)

--Gutowski writes that Cohen ruled that Tommy will not be allowed any access to the trust fund. (Even this strikes me as potentially a mistake. Surely no one at this hearing asked Cohen to fund Tommy, so why would he have to "rule" on this? More likely, at some point Cohen simply made the obvious statement that the trust fund could not benefit Tommy, which would not be a "ruling.")

--The article says that an interim trustee has actually been appointed, but this trustee is not named in the article. The earlier Tribune story, also by Gutowski, said that Cohen “plans to appoint … [an] interim trustee of the estate.” (What a strange change! Why doesn't she name him/her? Was she asleep when this happened?)

Excerpts:

[Judge Cohen] ordered civil attorneys involved in the trust case to work together to find a more reputable defense counsel. [Orange Tabby note: oddly, not one attorney present was named, none of the parties they represent were mentioned, nor were even the number of attorneys offering argument provided.]

In May, von Wiese-Mack named her brother, William Wiese, as trustee with control over the funds until her daughter's 30th birthday.

Wiese, an out-of-state attorney, feared the money would be used illegally for a bribe based on information he received from U.S. authorities about the Indonesian legal system, his attorney said Friday.

But, Cohen noted, with no evidence to support such concerns, Mack is entitled to seek help from the trust. The judge said Illinois' slayer statute, which forbids anyone who unjustifiably causes a death to profit or benefit from that death, is not at issue because Mack has not been convicted. [So, the question I raised earlier today is answered. It seems indeed that the time is not yet ripe.]

The judge quoted directly from von Wiese-Mack's trust in making his ruling. He said "in her mother's own words, ironically enough," Mack's support and health are to be provided.

"There's nothing more important in health than whether you are going to live or die or if your child is going to live or die," [Cohen] said.​

http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-82554099/
 
Thank you for the acronym explanation. I've followed the case since the headlines hit the news, but I'm not good with acronyms ... no reason.

So is it understood that they (the HC and TM acronym people) were the last known people to be seen with mom prior to delivering her in a suitcase to the cab and fleeing the scene?

Very strange. If you look at my post #138, you'll see I don't use the word "acronym," yet it appears in your quote of my post (#140). Are you joshin' me? And I'm not even one of the people who uses initials, let alone the wrong ones which you favor!!
 
Wiese, an out-of-state attorney, feared the money would be used illegally for a bribe based on information he received from U.S. authorities about the Indonesian legal system, his attorney said Friday.

Good! That may mean that the FBI are keeping an eye on this case, and can still have some input with the legal entities. Also, means that the US embassy in Bali may be watching closely, and they sure as heck would be very aware of the 'bartering' system that runs rampant in Indonesia.

I know that one of the publications that I quoted from yesterday was a US book written about the shady business dealings in Indonesia ... so someone in the US is very aware of the culture. And the judge will have reference materials to refer to.
 
Judge’s Ruling – Chicago Tribune Update

The Chicago Tribune story has been officially “updated,” but I would describe the current story as a complete re-write. There is new info, several elements from the previous story have vanished, and overall the story is more poorly expressed. There’s too much to simply quote. So I’ll summarize some of it and quote some of it.

Summary of some important points:

--Sheila’s trust was to be used for the “health, support, education and maintenance” of Heather. Tribune reporter Christy Gutowski claims that Sheila placed her estate in a trust in May, three months before she died. (I'd like to check my notes on this, as I'm not positive that Gutowski is completely correct.)

--The story says that Judge Cohen has “disqualified her [Heather's] Indonesian attorney.” (This is a very strange way to express things. Judge Cohen can disqualify attorneys in his own courtroom, but not in any courtroom in Indonesia. Gutowski is probably trying to say that Cohen won't approve of trust funds going to this attorney, which really is a different matter.)

--Gutowski writes that Cohen ruled that Tommy will not be allowed any access to the trust fund. (Even this strikes me as potentially a mistake. Surely no one at this hearing asked Cohen to fund Tommy, so why would he have to "rule" on this? More likely, at some point Cohen simply made the obvious statement that the trust fund could not benefit Tommy, which would not be a "ruling.")

--The article says that an interim trustee has actually been appointed, but this trustee is not named in the article. The earlier Tribune story, also by Gutowski, said that Cohen “plans to appoint … [an] interim trustee of the estate.” (What a strange change! Why doesn't she name him/her? Was she asleep when this happened?)

Excerpts:

[Judge Cohen] ordered civil attorneys involved in the trust case to work together to find a more reputable defense counsel. [Orange Tabby note: oddly, not one attorney present was named, none of the parties they represent were mentioned, nor were even the number of attorneys offering argument provided.]

In May, von Wiese-Mack named her brother, William Wiese, as trustee with control over the funds until her daughter's 30th birthday.

Wiese, an out-of-state attorney, feared the money would be used illegally for a bribe based on information he received from U.S. authorities about the Indonesian legal system, his attorney said Friday.

But, Cohen noted, with no evidence to support such concerns, Mack is entitled to seek help from the trust. The judge said Illinois' slayer statute, which forbids anyone who unjustifiably causes a death to profit or benefit from that death, is not at issue because Mack has not been convicted. [So, the question I raised earlier today is answered. It seems indeed that the time is not yet ripe.]

The judge quoted directly from von Wiese-Mack's trust in making his ruling. He said "in her mother's own words, ironically enough," Mack's support and health are to be provided.

"There's nothing more important in health than whether you are going to live or die or if your child is going to live or die," [Cohen] said.​

http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-82554099/

Thanks!! Some very interesting points in there. And just as I suspected, HM can get access to that trust as long as she's not convicted of her mother's murder. And her lawyers are making that clear to whomever might be up for a bribe. I don't doubt if they can't get at the money before they decide her fate, that there will be promises for the future once she does get her hands on the money. Those people in Bali don't know all the problems she will face getting the money so they might agree. What do they care really? Let her go with the possibility of being paid off down the line? They might even use TS as "collateral" iYKWIM.

So sordid. All of it. I feel so bad for Sheila's brother and family. I'm sure he doesn't really want his niece to suffer but he has to be torn about his feelings considering what she's done. What a mess.

MOO

ETA: I believe it was June when the condo was transferred from SWM as owner to her trust so I do believe she had done all this in May as they are saying. I wonder if HM knew about the age 30 stipulation she put in there?
 
Very strange. If you look at my post #138, you'll see I don't use the word "acronym," yet it appears in your quote of my post (#140). Are you joshin' me? And I'm not even one of the people who uses initials, let alone the wrong ones which you favor!!

What's the story on the daughter and her boyfriend? Are they still both facing first degree murder by firing squad if they are guilty of first degree murder, and will the pregnancy buy enough leniency to avoid the death penalty? What about the boyfriend? His family is presumably still raising money online and hoping to cash in on the "crazy child flees to foreign country to murder friend's mom" scenario.
 
Good! That may mean that the FBI are keeping an eye on this case, and can still have some input with the legal entities. Also, means that the US embassy in Bali may be watching closely, and they sure as heck would be very aware of the 'bartering' system that runs rampant in Indonesia.

I know that one of the publications that I quoted from yesterday was a US book written about the shady business dealings in Indonesia ... so someone in the US is very aware of the culture. And the judge will have reference materials to refer to.

So what do you make of the request to have the funds deposited to a fund that the U.S. Consulate there in Bali can oversee? What's up with that?
 
So what do you make of the request to have the funds deposited to a fund that the U.S. Consulate there in Bali can oversee? What's up with that?

On the surface, it looks like the daughter is looking to cash in on the murder of her mother, which she committed with a high school friend.

I make of it: Don't Do It.
 
I also noticed that TS looks VERY thin in his court photos. Thinner than he looked before, head shaved. Stress .. inadequate food intake .. drugs .. worry?
HM, on the other hand, looks well-nourished, clear skin, healthy hair, calm but angry.

Tommy+Schaefer+American+Couple+Stands+Trial+nmNDcqZWNlGl.jpg


http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/XVVC...s+Trial+Bali+Court/nmNDcqZWNlG/Tommy+Schaefer

Been meaning to say-- I'm actually ok with TS's mom using some of the fund money to go over there for the trial. It was mentioned in one of the articles that someone questioned it. I think she needs to be there.

Remember Tommy then? http://websta.me/n/tommyexx

Tommy looks awful now. As a mother, it must be hard to believe your son actually turned out to be a murderer of a gracious, older woman. It depends on what his Mom experienced with him, but I bet she doesn't like Heather one bit and blames her. It seems Tommy really veered off course when he met Heather. She worked on his weakness of wanting the easy, rich lifestyle, and he made the worst decision of his life. Her history of violence is documented -- Heather had been beating up on her Mother all her life. She was the one trying to pay someone to kill her Mother. Wonder if he still feels loyal to her. He's been such her fool. Does wearing that ring help him look better for the court? How much will they end up turning on each other?
 
Remember Tommy then? http://websta.me/n/tommyexx

Tommy looks awful now. As a mother, it must be hard to believe your son actually turned out to be a murderer of a gracious, older woman. It depends on what his Mom experienced with him, but I bet she doesn't like Heather one bit and blames her. It seems Tommy really veered off course when he met Heather. Her history of violence is documented -- Heather had been beating up on her Mother all her life. She was the one trying to pay someone to kill her Mother. Wonder if he still feels loyal to her. He's been such her fool. Does wearing that ring help him look better for the court? How much will they end up turning on each other?


This is an understatement (like a skinny runt). Where's the guy that's rapping like a mysogenist?

What's his now game?
Blame the crazy, hormone imbalance pregnant girl?
He was there but she was calling the shots?
 
A lawyer for Heather Mack filed an emergency motion on Thursday in Cook County court seeking $150,000 from the $1.56 million trust fund overseen by her uncle, William A. Wiese, who is her mother’s brother.

In the motion, Mack contends that her uncle “has not released one penny” to help her pay for her criminal defense. Mack says she has always maintained her innocence and alleges that her boyfriend confessed to the murder.


http://chicago.suntimes.com/news-ch...go-teen-wants-trust-fund-pay-criminal-defense

I imagine by Indonesian standards that $150,000 is a heck of a lot of money to retain a lawyer. And, the fact that this lawyer first requested $300,000, leaves me with little doubt that HM's intent is to buy her way to freedom. I hope the press in Bali takes notice. I don't think the government over there will take too kindly to having any negative press.
 
Judge’s Ruling – another account

NBC Chicago’s account of the hearing has slightly different details:
A Cook County judge on Friday approved an emergency motion filed on behalf of a teen accused of killing her mother in Bali and stuffing the body in a suitcase, tentatively allowing the release of up to $150,000 from the mother's estate to help pay for the teen's defense.

Judge Neil Cohen put stipulations on his ruling, however, mandating that Heather Mack have a dedicated Indonesian-based attorney to represent her during trial. Concerns have been expressed that the Bali lawyer that Mack has considered hiring has been known to represent drug smugglers.

"Funds can be used for hiring competent counsel," said Cohen. "We need someone who's for Heather and only Heather."

Mack stated that If "convicted of the murder of my mother in Indonesia, it is probable I will receive the death penalty by firing squad." She also said that that if she and her unborn child dies, her uncle stands to inherit the funds of the Trust.

See: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/bali-suitcase-murder-288831531.html#ixzz3P1GZeUFp

Why does this Judge seem so hell-bent on protecting HM's rights? Does he realize the severity of the crime? I feel so bad for Sheila's brother. Can you imagine having to deal with his sister's evil spawn?
 
First off, it's HM and TS!!

Second, and to your point: I think most folks do this because it's quicker and easier than typing "Heather Mack" and "Tommy Schaefer" every time. I don't know anyone here who is trying to shield these two nightmares. Don't imagine for one second that initials are being used to protect them! Myself, I mostly use first names. Not because I feel chummy with anyone associated with this case (quite the reverse in the matter of the two defendants), but because last names can be confusing when there are several people of the same last name (Heather Mack, James Mack, and the murder victim -- who at times in her life was known as simply Sheila Mack).

This is the only case I follow here at Websleuths. What do people do in other threads?

Use initials (if they want). :)
 
So what do you make of the request to have the funds deposited to a fund that the U.S. Consulate there in Bali can oversee? What's up with that?

I think that keeps the transactions above board. The retired judge can approve the release of certain funds, after he has received the bill and vetted it. The US Consulate can deposit the funds into the appropriate account upon instruction. No chance of anyone colluding with anyone with the US Consulate (govt dept) involved. Release of funds are approved by the correct person. Funds are deposited to the correct person's account. All traceable and can be readily audited by any approved US govt agency (FBI? IRS? Anti-Corruption Agency?)
 
I imagine by Indonesian standards that $150,000 is a heck of a lot of money to retain a lawyer. And, the fact that this lawyer first requested $300,000, leaves me with little doubt that HM's intent is to buy her way to freedom. I hope the press in Bali takes notice. I don't think the government over there will take too kindly to having any negative press.

No worries ... the Aussie media have a hold of the info now. That means Indonesia will be very aware of it. And hopefully it will make it into their media.

Daily Mail has it in their Australian edition, and Reuters has it. Won't be long till the rest of the media pick up on it - perhaps after our weekend. Then Indonesians will see it, for sure.

But I think the executions scheduled for tonight will be the biggest news item right now. :(

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-mom-SUING-1-6million-estate-pay-defense.html
http://news.yahoo.com/u-woman-accused-killing-mother-bali-seeks-funds-171202176.html
 
I think that keeps the transactions above board. The retired judge can approve the release of certain funds, after he has received the bill and vetted it. The US Consulate can deposit the funds into the appropriate account upon instruction. No chance of anyone colluding with anyone with the US Consulate (govt dept) involved. Release of funds are approved by the correct person. Funds are deposited to the correct person's account. All traceable and can be readily audited by any approved US govt agency (FBI? IRS? Anti-Corruption Agency?)

Well this was what was in the filing apparently as per Orange Tabby's post #99

Scifo said Mack’s lawyers had negotiated with her uncle since November, but couldn’t reach an agreement to pay Soenardi’s retainer. If the money were to be disbursed, it would be placed in an escrow-like account with the U.S. Consulate, according to the court papers.

This all sounds very suspect because it doesn't appear that this new lawyer has been around since November? So who was negotiating for funds back then? Is there someone at the consulate who was also looking for a piece of the pie? What lawyers were in contact with William back in November?

MOO
 
Thanks!! Some very interesting points in there.

ETA: I believe it was June when the condo was transferred from SWM as owner to her trust so I do believe she had done all this in May as they are saying. I wonder if HM knew about the age 30 stipulation she put in there?

[I made some cuts in the above.]

First, you are very welcome Kamille. The coverage of the judge's ruling leaves a fair amount of wiggle room in interpretation. Not necessarily because the judge left it that way, but because the various reporters were by no mean unanimous on any number of important points.

Second, thanks for the confirmation that the condo was transferred in June 2014. That was something I was going to look up, but I trust you completely and so am saved that task. But there are other aspects of the crazy Christy Gutowski's reporting I question. For example, Jon Seidel in the Chicago Sun-Times reported (and this has been discussed here on Websleuths in previous Sheila threads) that Sheila established her trust before her husband died, and the details of that was something thing I want to look up. I very tentatively think that what happened in May of 2014 was that Sheila made some specific legal choices concerning her existing trust, not that she set it up a trust de novo in that month.

Third, my-oh-my-oh-my! I do not think Heather knew she would be under her uncle's yolk until she was 30! While Judge Cohen may have removed that particular constraint for the time being, Heather's now got a retired Cook County judge looking down her neck. Who the hell wants that? I hope he starts monitoring her vines.
 
It must bug the heck out of the uncle, to have to allow his DEAD sister's estate pay for the attorney. His niece has been abusing and attacking her mother for years. And now she gets her defense attorney funds from her victim's estate? Ugghhhh
 
Well this was what was in the filing apparently as per Orange Tabby's post #99

Scifo said Mack’s lawyers had negotiated with her uncle since November, but couldn’t reach an agreement to pay Soenardi’s retainer. If the money were to be disbursed, it would be placed in an escrow-like account with the U.S. Consulate, according to the court papers.

This all sounds very suspect because it doesn't appear that this new lawyer has been around since November? So who was negotiating for funds back then? Is there someone at the consulate who was also looking for a piece of the pie? What lawyers were in contact with William back in November?

MOO


It is hard to tell how long Scifo has been around, isn't it? He looks as though he is a probate/family law/personal injury specialist - whereas Elkin just does criminal law and family law. Maybe if Elkin was having difficulty extracting money from Mr Wiese, he called in a specialist to do that part of the job. Elkin must wants his own payment from HM, let alone getting HM some (bribe) money.

http://scifolaw.com/
http://elkin-associates.com/


But it doesn't look as though a US Consulate distributing authorised funds is uncommon or extraordinary. I found this info (though I'm sure they use electronic banking and emails these days):

The following are instructions for sending money to a U.S. citizen in an emergency financial situation abroad. When you use this service, a Department of State trust account is established in the recipient's name in order to forward funds overseas .....
Your money order or cashier's check must be made payable to the Department of State. Upon receipt, we send a telegram to the appropriate U.S. Embassy or Consulate abroad authorizing next workday disbursement .....
Funds are normally disbursed in the foreign country's currency and not in U.S. dollars ...


http://finland.usembassy.gov/sendingfunds.html
 
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