GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #4

[SouthAussie]

Wonder how the mood is in Kerobokan tonight. The executions are supposed to take place in just a few hours .. we are getting a fair bit of media coverage in news breaks tonight. Australia, Brazil, the Netherlands, and the EU are among the countries that are trying to stay the executions, as well as Amnesty International, but they are reporting no success. The Brazilian man to be executed will be the first one ever executed outside Brazil.

:rose:


http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-N...g-offenses-dozens-more-planned/9341421496209/
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/16/world/indonesia-drug-executions/
http://www.nltimes.nl/2015/01/16/dutchmans-execution-indonesia-set-weekend/

 

[Orange Tabby]

Wonder how the mood is in Kerobokan tonight. The executions are supposed to take place in just a few hours .. we are getting a fair bit of media coverage in news breaks tonight. Australia, Brazil, the Netherlands, and the EU are among the countries that are trying to stay the executions, as well as Amnesty International, but they are reporting no success. The Brazilian man to be executed will be the first one ever executed outside Brazil.

:rose:

Such darkness.

You are right to remind us, SouthAussie.

I will spare a thought today for these men and women I didn't know and can now never know, as well as for the grief of their families.

 

[Kamille]

[I made some cuts in the above.]

First, you are very welcome Kamille. The coverage of the judge's ruling leaves a fair amount of wiggle room in interpretation. Not necessarily because the judge left it that way, but because the various reporters were by no mean unanimous on any number of important points.

Second, thanks for the confirmation that the condo was transferred in June 2014. That was something I was going to look up, but I trust you completely and so am saved that task. But there are other aspects of the crazy Christy Gutowski's reporting I question. For example, Jon Seidel in the Chicago Sun-Times reported (and this has been discussed here on Websleuths in previous Sheila threads) that Sheila established her trust before her husband died, and the details of that was something thing I want to look up. I very tentatively think that what happened in May of 2014 was that Sheila made some specific legal choices concerning her existing trust, not that she set it up a trust de novo in that month.

Third, my-oh-my-oh-my! I do not think Heather knew she would be under her uncle's yolk until she was 30! While Judge Cohen may have removed that particular constraint for the time being, Heather's now got a retired Cook County judge looking down her neck. Who the hell wants that? I hope he starts monitoring her vines.

Here's the link to show transfer of the condo to Sheila's trust on June 9, 2014. http://chicago.blockshopper.com/property/17031110091045/1240_n_lake_shore_unit_18b/

And from what I understand, Sheila and James did up their wills just prior to the vacation in which James passed away. James made it clear that he wanted his assets to go towards the care and upbringing of ONLY Heather and not any of his other children. Because Sheila only had one child I assume her will stipulated the same. With her brother as executor. And at the time, it was a pretty standard will I suppose because they didn't have a lot of cash and assets, just the house, the condo and some savings. James did not work for a good part of his later years and there were likely some hefty medical expenses, hence the lawsuit.

So it appears that Sheila, after James death, got the settlement from the lawsuit and arranged to have it all in her name. She sold the condo and the house, purchasing the downtown condo for a great price. She got rid of all the things that were just draining her emotionally and financially and started a new life for herself and her daughter.

And it also appears that she did a little financial planning in May 2014. I'm sure she got some good advice and obviously hoped that Heather would settle down by age 30 to take responsibility for her inheritance should something happen to her. Pretty sure this situation was not considered at the time or she'd have made sure Heather wouldn't see a dime of her parents money should she die at her daughter's hands.

How would that work? Can you stipulate in your will that if your kid is charged with your murder that none of your money is to go towards paying for their defense? Lol

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Wonder how the mood is in Kerobokan tonight. The executions are supposed to take place in just a few hours .. we are getting a fair bit of media coverage in news breaks tonight. Australia, Brazil, the Netherlands, and the EU are among the countries that are trying to stay the executions, as well as Amnesty International, but they are reporting no success. The Brazilian man to be executed will be the first one ever executed outside Brazil.

:rose:


http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-N...g-offenses-dozens-more-planned/9341421496209/
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/16/world/indonesia-drug-executions/
http://www.nltimes.nl/2015/01/16/dutchmans-execution-indonesia-set-weekend/

This is just horrific, especially considering that with the right amount of money you can not only spare your life but get a slap on the wrist and go home. I think the only way to deal with this is to try to convince the tourists to stay away. Hit them where it hurts.

My heart goes out to the families of these people. Where are the brutal murderers in the execution rotation?

:notgood:

MOO

 

[Orange Tabby]

How would that work? Can you stipulate in your will that if your kid is charged with your murder that none of your money is to go towards paying for their defense? Lol

[I've cut most of Kamille's useful post, leaving only the very last part.]

Yes, who would even think to include such a possibility in their estate documents??!!

Nonetheless, I’ve been thinking about this since Judge Cohen’s hearing. I would not be surprised if in the future some (even if only just a teeny-tiny few) estate attorneys urge their clients to include language to anticipate this terrible contingency, which I'm certain could be drafted to have stopped Judge Cohen in his tracks. The person planning his after-death asset situation may think such a clause completely and utterly unnecessary, but if so, would not think much about including it ("it's entirely unnecessary, so it can't affect my heirs") if an estate planner urged it as a kind of nuclear “meet all contingencies” option.

After all, many wills and similar instruments address all sorts of wierd situations we never ever think about, and which as boilerplate are cheap to include. For example, many such instruments have specific conditions for the case where both the testator and his/her spouse die at nearly the same time (e.g. in a car accident). Who actually thinks about this possibility on their own? Yet ordinary folk sometimes have that possibility covered by their end-of-life docs.

Heather may affect futurity in ways she could not have anticipated. And we are cheapened by it.

 

[gracehatter]

Wonder how the mood is in Kerobokan tonight. The executions are supposed to take place in just a few hours .. we are getting a fair bit of media coverage in news breaks tonight. Australia, Brazil, the Netherlands, and the EU are among the countries that are trying to stay the executions, as well as Amnesty International, but they are reporting no success. The Brazilian man to be executed will be the first one ever executed outside Brazil.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-N...g-offenses-dozens-more-planned/9341421496209/
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/16/world/indonesia-drug-executions/
http://www.nltimes.nl/2015/01/16/dutchmans-execution-indonesia-set-weekend/

Yes, it must be very sobering and very somber for all that may be subject to execution in the future. I can imagine Tommy and his Mother are a wreck. So am I correct since it is just about noon EST that it is midnight in Bali, so the executions are about 4 hours away? I know we had a time converter at one point posted. Thanks South Aussie for the links, I'll be keeping an eye open throughout the day. Kamille and Orange Tabby, thanks again for all your updates, so much to process in this case. I still haven't been able to catch up. I'm wondering when we will see an actual copy of HM's trust, I have had all sorts of thoughts since learning SWM may not have established that trust until much later. I wonder what HM knew about it's terms, I'm guessing once she turned 18 she would have been able to legally query about it but the only one to ask about the terms would have been the trustee, SWM. Wonder about Heather and if she is worried...who knows, certainly the news that she will be able to use a portion of the trust funds for her defense must feel like a huge win to her, not to mention how her jailers and fellow inmates must now view her status :thinking: ...wonder if that has had any effect? I also am wondering what if any planning is taking place re: Baby Stella. What a legal morass that is going to be :facepalm: .

 

[ajaylee]

I don't believe HM knew about the age restriction on the trust - a brilliant move on SWM's part and one that might have saved her life if HM had known about it.

 

[Kamille]

Yes, it must be very sobering and very somber for all that may be subject to execution in the future. I can imagine Tommy and his Mother are a wreck. So am I correct since it is just about noon EST that it is midnight in Bali, so the executions are about 4 hours away? I know we had a time converter at one point posted. Thanks South Aussie for the links, I'll be keeping an eye open throughout the day. Kamille and Orange Tabby, thanks again for all your updates, so much to process in this case. I still haven't been able to catch up. I'm wondering when we will see an actual copy of HM's trust, I have had all sorts of thoughts since learning SWM may not have established that trust until much later. I wonder what HM knew about it's terms, I'm guessing once she turned 18 she would have been able to legally query about it but the only one to ask about the terms would have been the trustee, SWM. Wonder about Heather and if she is worried...who knows, certainly the news that she will be able to use a portion of the trust funds for her defense must feel like a huge win to her, not to mention how her jailers and fellow inmates must now view her status :thinking: ...wonder if that has had any effect? I also am wondering what if any planning is taking place re: Baby Stella. What a legal morass that is going to be :facepalm: .

You just reminded me that HM would have been going on 18 when Sheila redid her will. Was that the reason? To make sure that once she turned 18 she wasn't entitled to everything should something happen to Sheila? She was protecting her daughter's future? She knew the crowd HM was running with and she must have assumed/hoped that HM would be in a better place mentally to deal with the wealth by the time she was 30? Or she figured if she wasn't, there wasn't anything else she could do to protect her?

I think all people who have some degree of wealth and especially those with this kind of discord with an only child, should actually consider some type of clause for a situation like this. I wonder if anyone has ever done it? Did the Melendez brothers use their parent's money for their defense?

MOO

 

[ajaylee]

You just reminded me that HM would have been going on 18 when Sheila redid her will. Was that the reason? To make sure that once she turned 18 she wasn't entitled to everything should something happen to Sheila? She was protecting her daughter's future? She knew the crowd HM was running with and she must have assumed/hoped that HM would be in a better place mentally to deal with the wealth by the time she was 30? Or she figured if she wasn't, there wasn't anything else she could do to protect her?

I think all people who have some degree of wealth and especially those with this kind of discord with an only child, should actually consider some type of clause for a situation like this. I wonder if anyone has ever done it? Did the Melendez brothers use their parent's money for their defense?

MOO

I'm a firm believer in putting very tight controls on an estate until the recipients are at least 30 years old. I was not a 'wild child', but I certainly lacked the experience and knowledge to put a sudden windfall to best use when I was in my early 20's. It's possible to allow the estate to cover things like college costs, but to hand any 19-year-old, whether or not s/he is a 'wild child', complete control of a lot of money is foolish.

Had never thought to include boilerplate language prohibiting my heirs from doing what HM's doing, but I can see this becoming common practice.

 

[gracehatter]

I don't believe HM knew about the age restriction on the trust - a brilliant move on SWM's part and one that might have saved her life if HM had known about it.

Wasn't there some report that lead us (well, at least me) from a friend of SWM that indicated HM had not moved with or was not living with her mother once she relocated to the North Shore area? That SWM was tracking her down around the downtown area? She had turned 18 at that point right? I need to go look at Quester's timelines again. I want to agree with ajaylee that HM did not know about that restriction but I am just not sure, really want to see the trust! Clearly when SWM asked for that condition precedent she had realized that HM's behavior was NOT evolving or growing into a more mature and responsible mindset. These are pretty commonly used in trusts where the corpus is of a significant amount and the grantor wants to avoid the spendthrift grantee however, most of the time they are staggered conditions, that is percentages are released over time to correspond with events such as age, completion of college and so on to recognize the age and maturity progression. We know that SWM was afraid of her at some points, would there have there been a good reason to tell her of the condition? Could she have used it as leverage to get HM to get back into school and clean up her act, indicating she would change it? Would HM if she did know about it, be smart enough to know that the death of SWM would have no affect on it? The ONLY reason I am thinking out loud here as it were is that I keep thinking of Elkins indicating that he and HM knew each other through a social setting. Had she then contacted him about the trust to see if she had any remedies? One thing is certain, with more media coverage on this aspect of the case we are bound to learn far more about the relationship in the last couple of years prior to SWM's death.

ETA: For some reason I cannot thank posts so blanket thanks going out!! :loveyou:

 

[ajaylee]

Yes, gracehatter, I am sure someone (SWM's friend?) said that SWM had to track HM down before the trip. I had the impression she wasn't currently living at home, but that she didn't have a fixed residence elsewhere. It's hard to imagine her staying with TS or anyone in that crowd - TS didn't have a regular home himself.

It does occur to me: Elkin was circumspect to the point of cagy when not-explaining how he and HM knew each other - or how long. HM may have thought she was entitled to 'her' money (from her dad's settlement) when she turned 18. Suppose she turns 18, smarts off to SWM or goes to a lawyer to find out how to collect and finds out she can't touch the $ until she's 30. I suppose there's the possibility that no one explained that her mother's death wouldn't automatically release the funds to her.

I don't know the legal workings: could SWM possibly have added the age-30 restriction when she made changes in May? That would have really sent HM in a rage, especially since about that time, she thought her future was rosy: rapper boyfriend, Hollywood for her, 'her' inheritance - life was looking good.

ETA: Now that I think about it, it comes down to this: whatever HM did or didn't know about her $, she didn't realize her mother's death still left her subject to her uncle for another 10 years.

 

[Kamille]

I'm guessing she definitely either didn't know about the age 30 restriction or didn't understand it if she did know about it. She was shopping around a "hit" on her mother for 50 grand. Pretty sure that expense would have been tough to explain to her uncle if she understood he'd be in control.

I can't remember, didn't she just turn 18 after her arrest? So she was likely thinking she WOULD get everything at age 18 if her mother died.

Sheila and Heather moved to the new condo in June of 2013 I believe. Lots of proof online that Heather lived there, had her bedroom re decorated etc. I think it was only the month of July 2014, when HM started staying away from home for long periods at a time and likely SWM just stopped looking for her. Until she got the call about the hotel charging her credit card. There could have been other hotels (we know TS posted about staying in another one) but we just heard about the one. So it's entirely possible SWM was telling someone near the end of July she didn't know where Heather was and they had a plane to catch at the beginning of August.

MOO

 

[gracehatter]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-30866752

This is saying the executions have taken place.

 

[LinasK]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-30866752

This is saying the executions have taken place.

Hope that put some fear into Heather and Tommy...

 

[nightwatch]

Hope that put some fear into Heather and Tommy...

I doubt HM is worried, she's probably smirking and sipping on her rice tea once she heard money will be released. Jmo.

ciao

 

[SouthAussie]

I doubt HM is worried, she's probably smirking and sipping on her rice tea once she heard money will be released. Jmo.

ciao

Yeah well ... you know her attitude, you know what it do.

One day, just one day, may this girl fall flat on her face. And may it be the day that she is found guilty of the premeditated murder of her mother and sentenced to life.

 

[Kamille]

Yeah well ... you know her attitude, you know what it do.

One day, just one day, may this girl fall flat on her face. And may it be the day that she is found guilty of the premeditated murder of her mother and sentenced to life.

We can only hope but it's looking less and less likely IMO

 

[RR0004]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-30866752

This is saying the executions have taken place.

So sad...just so sad.

 

[ajaylee]

You know, her arrogance and confidence are really amazing. Here's a high-school dropout 19-year-old from a sheltered background. Ignorant about some things (how easy it would be to murder her mother and run), astonishingly cunning about others.

She's in an exotic foreign country, someplace she's never traveled before, on trial for murder. Yet she's confident enough to locate a corrupt local attorney and hand over $300K to get off scot-free. It never occurs to her that he could take her money and do nothing? And she would have zero recourse?

(Unfortunately, that's probably not going to happen in this case. She seems to have latched on to a very high-profile reliable corrupt lawyer. He's the kind who will deliver because he's angling for the big bucks and has to maintain his reputation).

 

[Kamille]

You know, her arrogance and confidence are really amazing. Here's a high-school dropout 19-year-old from a sheltered background. Ignorant about some things (how easy it would be to murder her mother and run), astonishingly cunning about others.

She's in an exotic foreign country, someplace she's never traveled before, on trial for murder. Yet she's confident enough to locate a corrupt local attorney and hand over $300K to get off scot-free. It never occurs to her that he could take her money and do nothing? And she would have zero recourse?

(Unfortunately, that's probably not going to happen in this case. She seems to have latched on to a very high-profile reliable corrupt lawyer. He's the kind who will deliver because he's angling for the big bucks and has to maintain his reputation).

Pretty sure she would be willing to take the chance of losing the money if it gives her any hope of getting out of there. What does she have to lose? The money won't help HER if she's convicted because she knows she won't be able to touch it then. So she has to use it NOW to save herself. I'm sure all that has been pointed out to her. She started going after the money in November. Likely it coincides with the time that Elkin and Favia showed up over there?

Which indicates that the one who was supposed to be advocating for the baby didn't have a problem with spending that baby's inheritance on "legal fees". Neither did the baby's mothereven though she had no idea if that lawyer would just take off with the cash and not hold up his end of the bargain/bribe. Sounds like between what the Indonesian lawyer wanted and what Elkin and Favia were trying to get, she was already being squeezed for $450,000 for a chance at a light sentence. i can't even imagine what her uncle was thinking back then, or even today for that matter.

And just imagine the nerve of those two U.S. lawyers asking for a $150,000 RETAINER from HM via her uncle (not their total bill) and then launching a fund raiser in the name of a bogus Christian charity to buy her vitamins and baby clothes. Sickening.

MOO