GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #5

[ajaylee]

Wow!

I was thinking about this last night (before I read the latest news).

At first glance, the offer of a private cell sounded great. But....nothing ever seems straightforward in this story. HM is a liar who is always playing the angles (and usually getting away with it). The Indonesians? Look at the Bali Nine circus - nothing is clear cut and simple.

It seems clear that the minister wants HM to release Stellla. He offers her a private cell to 'think it over'. Surprisingly enough, she almost immediately comes around to his way of thinking. Why?

HM and TS played the depression/suicide card after they were first arrested. For weeks, they were put in solitary confinement - real solitary, no other cellmates with them or nearby to talk to and no cellphones. Both of them suffered and got depressed (HM worked it for a quick trip to the hospital; TS suffered in silence).

Kerobokan is notoriously overcrowded. I have read of male prisoners getting private or semi-private cells - but never a woman.

Perhaps HM's private cell is really a solitary confinement cell. I suspect she does get help with Stella from other women in her cell, whether or not they like it. To be blunt, she doesn't hold Stella in her arms when she's using a squat toilet. And she has some company, even with language barriers, and she's enjoyed regular access to a cellphone. Perhaps the private cell was really private, someplace to force her to be alone with Stella and her thoughts. Perhaps the minister suggested to her that TS might be moved to another prison if she didn't allow Stella to leave the prison.

Or perhaps the minister hinted that the trial verdict might be more favorable if she cooperates. One thing I've read over and over again is that Indonesia does not like international criticism. Perhaps the minister suggested HM think things over in solitary until she comes to the 'right' conclusion. This story will lose a lot of interest once Stella is removed from the picture.

At any rate, it seems to be a grain of good news.

 

[SouthAussie]

Interesting to note that while Yasonna Laoly is the Minister of Law and Human Rights, he is not the Child Protection Minister. That is Yohana Yambise, who is the Minister for Women Empowerment and Child Protection.

Maybe he got himself involved because the baby's health and welfare is more a case of international human rights (innocent, helpless, under-nourished, unwashed foreign citizen in an Indonesian prison), than a case of strictly child protection and welfare.

http://tradebridgeconsultants.com/news/reshuffles/jokowi-presents-full-list-of-new-cabinet/

 

[Kamille]

Great, so she's handing the baby over to her Australian "friend"? How does that work? She requests money from the trust to be sent to the friend for Stella's care. And she gives a ridiculously high figure that Cohen approves because he has no idea what things cost in Bali and no inclination to find out or listen to WW's arguments. So the friend uses some of the money to take care of Stella, deducts her own "fee" and the rest to keep HM in the style to which she's become accustomed? Glad Stella is being moved out of the prison but not happy about the arrangement. She should be returned to the U.S. to be adopted out to an anonymous couple with HM getting cut off financially if she's convicted and the money put in trust for Stella when she turns 25.

What happened to that all important breast feeding? She has no maternal instincts whatsoever because I believe she is a true psychopath. Stella's only use to her is what she can use her for. I bet she hated every moment of breast feeding. She's used the baby to get the prosecution to ask for leniency so now she's done with her for the time being. But she can use this excuse about the pressure she was under from government and prison officials to TS as to why she "had" to give up their child. I can hear the sob story now. And the fake crocodile tears about how hard this is for her even though she's absolutely giddy that she doesn't have that "burden" to deal with anymore.

Her "friend" will bring Stella round daily with HM's meals, hair accessories, snacks, electronics and whatever else she desires. So how is this a hardship for her at all? No different than all the parents who have to work and put their children in daycare to make a living for those brief hours they get to spend with their children on a daily basis. And that IS a hardship on parents that they endure to make a better life for their children. HM has made a better life for herself IMO.

Yep, I think those hours alone with Stella made her realize just what she didn't want to do for 2 years should she actually be convicted of something that carries some extended time in prison.

Totally agree that this move by the "human rights" minister was to reduce the attention this baby in the prison was getting on an international level. It was only a matter of time before some human rights advocates started a real campaign about it. So basically, the whole thing played into HM's hand...again.

So now there's only 4 women in her cell according to that Jakarta Post article? Did a few of them end their sentences or did they end their lives at the prospect of dealing with HM for any length of time?

MOO

 

[Kamille]

I'm confused by some of these reports that claim the verdict will be next week. In the Neil Bantleman case, it took almost a month for the judges to render a verdict after the final court arguments.

How could it be that the verdict will be announced the same day as the defence final arguments? I think this is being misinterpreted by The Daily Mail.

Here is how it reads in the Jakarta Post...

The trial was adjourned to Tuesday to hear a response from the lawyer before the judge delivers his verdict.

See more at: http://m.thejakartapost.com/news/20...d-against-us-couple.html#sthash.YLFD3N0c.dpuf

If they've already got a verdict ready for Tuesday, after the defence final arguments, then it's been ready for quite some time. What would be the difference between this case and the Bantleman case other than a bribe?

MOO

 

[Curious Me]

Delighted to hear the baby is getting out of the prison.

:thinking: I don't know how HM will manage to use even this to her benefit. I don't trust HM to do anything out of pure love for the baby. At least, Stella will be in a safer place for now.

I honestly don't know what to expect. It hasn't gone as straight above board as I initially expected. Confusing. It'd be a hoot if HM gets 15 years and gets transferred to another prison where she never gets to see TS or the baby, but that's my own wishful thinking that she finally feel true remorse.

Thanking everyone here. I get so much out of reading your posts.

 

[LinasK]

Sadly, it's possible that the US government (State Department) is behind this latest fiasco. Someone from the US embassy may have notified Indonesian authorities of their concerns. There's no legal means to remove Stella from HM's care in Indonesia right now, so any concern for Stella's circumstances necessarily involves HM. Stella needs quiet, privacy and air conditioning? Well, HM's going to get it, too. I think it's clear that although Indonesia allows infants until the age of two, most Indonesians don't see this as desirable. I think there's only two types of Indonesian women who keep their infants in prison: those who have no other option and those who are nuts/cunning like HM.

Soenardi's greatest coup in all of this has been his efforts to change the story. It's not about two greedy teens cold-bloodedly planning and executing a helpless 62-year-old woman. It's about two star-crossed young lovers who just want to be together with their baby and their (inherited by murder) bank account. It's like the courts are being pressured to 'do the right thing' and stop putting obstacles in the lovers' path. SWM has almost been erased from the narrative: it's about the suffering of the two young lovers as they try to stay strong in the face of adversity. (I'm gagging as I type this). HM has probably already been rehearsing her story for the (paid) TV interviews and movie-of-the-week she expects when she gets back to the US.

It's ironic that even the prosecution (which has clearly been tainted) suggests that HM and TS deserve a break because they are young and can change if given a chance.

Um...hello....MS and AC have spent a decade behind bars actually demonstrating that they can and have changed, but in their case, the argument seems to be that whether or not you change, you still owe a debt to society for the crimes you have committed.

Of course, MS and AC don't have Soenardi (and $$$) working on their side.

We have to be careful not to fall into the same trap. Stella isn't in crap conditions because of the inhumanity of the Indonesian prison system. Stella is in crap conditions because her mother has chosen to keep her in prison instead of releasing her to better circumstances. She's being enabled and encouraged by her fawning Aussie friends.

I nominated this post for post of the day!:goodpost:

 

[LinasK]

What .... no maid service, as well??!

So, what happens if she decides not to give the baby to another family to care for? Does she lose the private cell? And how long does she have to make a decision? That prison is already crowded. Are they cramming more women into the crowded cells to give Her Royal Lowness private accommodation?
(Poor baby, being locked into a cell, all alone, with that violent madwoman.)

Mack will get own room until she decides whether to give baby to a family

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ali-prison-complaining-raising-baby-jail.html

Maybe it'll feel like being in solitary and she'll decide she doesn't like it. One can hope!!lease:lease:lease:

 

[SouthAussie]

I wonder how the defense rebuttals will go now on Tuesday. “She is young, she used to have a baby to care for ….”

 

[Wagara]

Prayers for Stella.

 

[whatthewhaat]

I'm surprised there hasn't been any coverage on baby Stella getting out of prison other than the jakartapost article. Everyone out for the weekend?

 

[Cyberburn]

I'm surprised there hasn't been any coverage on baby Stella getting out of prison other than the jakartapost article. Everyone out for the weekend?

That's what I'm wondering too. I find it so surprising that it is so quiet.

I have one question. Does anyone know who the older white woman who was in court on Thursday? Was she new? Does she have anything to do with these recent developments?

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm surprised there hasn't been any coverage on baby Stella getting out of prison other than the jakartapost article. Everyone out for the weekend?

I’m not sure if our MSM will cover it. News regarding minor children is not really reported here – unless a child is missing or killed. It may be mentioned in an article about something else, like the court proceedings, but I'd be surprised if there would be an article exclusively about the baby.

And the Daily Mail has divulged all that it has heard from its unnamed source(s).

I think it will have to be up to US MSM … and with Heather temporarily not having an iPhone, perhaps she has been unable to contact her crew, Christy Gutowski, and her other US contacts recently. Kia isn’t speaking.

I sure would like it confirmed that the baby is out of prison now. Maybe it will become apparent tomorrow (Tuesday).

 

[Cyberburn]

I see this one report from yesterday about the prison governor being sick of HM and TS pretending to be sick to delay trial and now thinks this other person is faking illness.
http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=205009&fm=newsmain,nrhl

 

[Cyberburn]

While searching again for more news, I found a more detailed report but it's not in English.
http://regional.kompas.com/read/201...Prihatin.dengan.Kondisi.Bayi.Heather.di.Lapas

 

[SouthAussie]

While searching again for more news, I found a more detailed report but it's not in English.
http://regional.kompas.com/read/201...Prihatin.dengan.Kondisi.Bayi.Heather.di.Lapas

Good find, Cyberburn! Though I am not sure what this means. That he will talk to the US ambassador about finding a suitable family to care for the baby?

Efforts to provide for the comfort and health of babies born to Heather March 17, 2015 and is enough fear for. How not, the mother who is serving as Heather in this murder case does not allow her child to be cared for in prison, while the rules can take care of only 2 years of age limit.

"I say to him (Heather), statutory maximum (parenting in prison) just two years there (in prison). So that here (in prison) he is not healthy. Should raised outside prison for the better, I'll talk to the ambassador for the swatch, perhaps biased, "he added.

http://regional.kompas.com/read/201...Prihatin.dengan.Kondisi.Bayi.Heather.di.Lapas

 

[Curious Me]

I see this one report from yesterday about the prison governor being sick of HM and TS pretending to be sick to delay trial and now thinks this other person is faking illness.
http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=205009&fm=newsmain,nrhl

:giggle: Thanks. It's good to know they haven't fooled people. BBM


http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=205009&fm=newsmain,nrhl

"There was also a similar incident with the Americans," he said, referring to Heather Mack and Tommy Schaefer, on trial for the murder of Mack's mother.

"They're pretending to be sick so that the trial will be cancelled or at least, stalling their detention."

"With that, they hope to get more attention from their country."

 

[Curious Me]

From what I could surmise from just video clips and photos is that Heather was probably neglecting her baby. I think if she has a cell phone handy and gets caught up in running her agendas then she's probably not being a very good nurturing mother. Did she ever get started on regular breast feeding? I wonder if her cell mates started complaining that Heather wasn't taking good enough care of her baby.

I do pray for Baby Stella, too. She deserves a sane and sanitary home life with a secure schedule and loving care.

Many of us, as we get older, try to piece together and understand what things were like when we were babies. For Baby Stella, it will be bad enough to find out what went on so far -- her parents brutality, starting her life in a prison and what happened her grandmother. I really hope this innocent infant is not going to be harmed further by her parent's selfish decisions for her future.

 

[Curious Me]

Prayers for Stella.

From what I could surmise from just video clips and photos is that Heather was probably neglecting her baby. I think if she has a cell phone handy and gets caught up in running her agendas, then she's probably not being a very good nurturing mother. Did she ever get started on regular breast feeding? I wonder if her cell mates started complaining that Heather wasn't taking good enough care of her baby.

I do pray for Baby Stella, too. She deserves a sane and sanitary home life with a secure schedule and loving care.

Many of us, as we get older, try to piece together and understand what things were like when we were babies and young children. For Baby Stella, it will be bad enough to find out what went on so far -- her parent's brutality, starting her life in a prison and what happened to her grandmother. I really hope this innocent infant is not going to be harmed further by her parent's selfish decisions for her future.

 

[SouthAussie]

From what I could surmise from just video clips and photos is that Heather was probably neglecting her baby. I think if she has a cell phone handy and gets caught up in running her agendas, then she's probably not being a very good nurturing mother. Did she ever get started on regular breast feeding? I wonder if her cell mates started complaining that Heather wasn't taking good enough care of her baby.

RSBM

I have been wondering if Heather was even breastfeeding her baby at all. Yes, we saw her stick Stella to her breast a few times purposely in front of the camera. But I noticed that someone (?) with her is holding a cold pack that we tend to use for baby bottles in our hot climate in this video. So it makes me think that perhaps Heather was publicly acting as if she was breastfeeding, but privately was bottle feeding (and not enough imo). Something her cellmates may have revealed to the prison guards, and perhaps the prison staff have noticed themselves too.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...-speaks-on-camera-20150409-embeddedvideo.html

 

[ajaylee]

I have a feeling this didn't play out the way HM hoped. In the most recent video clips, she looked like she was getting tired of holding Stella all the time. She was clearly disappointed when the woman outside the cell wanted HM to take Stella back - HM was in the middle of eating her lunch and wanted her hands free. She wants all the potential perks of being a mommy but she doesn't want to do the work.

I'm beginning to think the minister's attitude was bigger than HM's. He went there with one purpose: to get her to let Stella leave the prison. She played right into his hands when she complained about the crowded cell. He gave her a private cell where she would have no contact with other prisoners. That sounds like solitary confinement to me. It also sounds like it might be a place where she'll have a harder time getting access to a phone. He specifically said he sent her there while she 'thought it over'. Sounds like a kid being sent to her room until she figures it out.

The best part? Who is HM going to complain to? The governor of the prison? Soenardi? Does she think either of these guys is going to take on a government minister on her behalf?

In different accounts, the minister said he could help HM find a suitable Balinese family or work with the embassy to find someone (possibly expat or church-related) to take care of Stella. Interesting that there's no immediate mention of Kia Walker.