Belize - Francesca Matus, 52, & Drew De Voursney, 36, murdered, Corozal, 25 Apr 2017

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New to this. Several things to say.
1. I live in Belize. I have a friend who knows two people who saw Drew on motorcycle on Wednesday. Police know. More people saw him. My friend knows someone who saw Francesca on Wed too. Some reason people don't want to believe they were seen.
2. Drew hit his head diving on Thursday before missing. 30 people saw him.
3. There are lots of cameras on streets in Corozal.
 
BZMon said:
New to this. Several things to say.
1. I live in Belize. I have a friend who knows two people who saw Drew on motorcycle on Wednesday. Police know. More people saw him. My friend knows someone who saw Francesca on Wed too. Some reason people don't want to believe they were seen.
2. Drew hit his head diving on Thursday before missing. 30 people saw him.
3. There are lots of cameras on streets in Corozal.
Click to expand...

Welcome to Ws BZMon, it is nice to have someone local to Belize chiming in!
:welcome:
 
BZMon said:
New to this. Several things to say.
1. I live in Belize. I have a friend who knows two people who saw Drew on motorcycle on Wednesday. Police know. More people saw him. My friend knows someone who saw Francesca on Wed too. Some reason people don't want to believe they were seen.
2. Drew hit his head diving on Thursday before missing. 30 people saw him.
3. There are lots of cameras on streets in Corozal.
Click to expand...
Which Wednesday are you referring to - prior to them being missing or after?

What is you're theory, BZMon?
 
PaxBelize said:
Belize has one of the highest murder rates in the world. I think we rank fourth. I think the Prime Minister is well aware that violent crime is an issue. This is a very poor country. So poor, in fact, that it's unlikely it can ever pay its international debts. Over 50% of the work force is illiterate and unemployment remains between 25 and 30%. Many children have no access to education and many villages none to potable drinking water. If you have any ideas where the additional resources might come from, that would be great. Have you spent much time in developing countries? This is how many people live here. https://static.wixstatic.com/media/....jpg_srz_980_492_85_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz

Crime is just one of the many major issues facing this young, beautiful but struggling country. Belize is only 35 years old. It will take more than anger and frustration to make it succeed. There is simply very little money in most of the country.
Click to expand...
My first answer for funds would be to tax the tourists who want to soak it all up in the sun.

I am always the type to dig in and get things going, and if I lived there, I absolutely would be doing everything I could to highlight the issues and help educate, raise resources.

Aren't there celebrities and wealthy types buying up land and islands etc.? There needs to be more taxation by the government on those foreigners looking to reap the benefits of the lovely life and "developing" world low costs associated with it.

You are right that I'm not knowledgeable about places that use a bucket brigade to put out fires and where a police force is so ill equipped that they do not have a phone or computer or a uniform that doesn't cost them personally. I am well aware of the hardships, generally speaking, but have not witnessed such a lack of infrastructure first hand.

I boat and enjoy safe beaches and water in my country (Canada). I cannot imagine living in such a dangerous country for that pleasure. I'm sure it would break my heart to see the people living there like that, and I would be putting all my energy to helping feed and educate the children. That is where the hope is.
 
PaxBelize said:
Belize has one of the highest murder rates in the world. I think we rank fourth. I think the Prime Minister is well aware that violent crime is an issue. This is a very poor country. So poor, in fact, that it's unlikely it can ever pay its international debts. Over 50% of the work force is illiterate and unemployment remains between 25 and 30%. Many children have no access to education and many villages none to potable drinking water. If you have any ideas where the additional resources might come from, that would be great. Have you spent much time in developing countries? This is how many people live here. https://static.wixstatic.com/media/....jpg_srz_980_492_85_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz

Crime is just one of the many major issues facing this young, beautiful but struggling country. Belize is only 35 years old. It will take more than anger and frustration to make it succeed. There is simply very little money in most of the country.
Click to expand...
One more thing - you ask if I have any idea where resources might come from?

Has anyone ever approached Craig Kielburger and the Free the Children /Me to We Foundation? His is an amazing story, I have seen him as a guest speaker for a business function and in fact I helped raise the $ to build 28 schools in developing countries - in one evening - $280,000

Each school costs $10,000 and they go there and help teach the locals to build the schools and they install a well for drinking right at the school. Craig started doing this at the tender age of 12!!

If you are affiliated with any such organizations or political connections that could put in a request to the foundation for a school and a well, I could assist on the back end. Please let me know.

Look it up. They have built schools all around the world.

https://www.we.org
 
Wondergirl said:
One more thing - you ask if I have any idea where resources might come from?

Has anyone ever approached Craig Kielburger and the Free the Children /Me to We Foundation? His is an amazing story, I have seen him as a guest speaker for a business function and in fact I helped raise the $ to build 28 schools in developing countries - in one evening - $280,000

Each school costs $10,000 and they go there and help teach the locals to build the schools and they install a well for drinking right at the school. Craig started doing this at the tender age of 12!!

If you are affiliated with any such organizations or political connections that could put in a request to the foundation for a school and a well, I could assist on the back end. Please let me know.

Look it up. They have built schools all around the world.

https://www.we.org
Click to expand...
This post deserves more thanks.


Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 
Wondergirl said:
My first answer for funds would be to tax the tourists who want to soak it all up in the sun.

I am always the type to dig in and get things going, and if I lived there, I absolutely would be doing everything I could to highlight the issues and help educate, raise resources.

Aren't there celebrities and wealthy types buying up land and islands etc.? There needs to be more taxation by the government on those foreigners looking to reap the benefits of the lovely life and "developing" world low costs associated with it.

You are right that I'm not knowledgeable about places that use a bucket brigade to put out fires and where a police force is so ill equipped that they do not have a phone or computer or a uniform that doesn't cost them personally. I am well aware of the hardships, generally speaking, but have not witnessed such a lack of infrastructure first hand.

I boat and enjoy safe beaches and water in my country (Canada). I cannot imagine living in such a dangerous country for that pleasure. I'm sure it would break my heart to see the people living there like that, and I would be putting all my energy to helping feed and educate the children. That is where the hope is.
Click to expand...
This is very well meaning and I appreciate your intentions. Tourists pay more tax in Belize than in most countries. It's actually becoming a concern that it will hit our small tourism industry to be honest as the taxes go up. Many people work very hard in Belize to highlight issues, help educate and raise resources. It's a continuous challenge that Belizeans and foreigners do together to improve people's lives.

Celebrities do buy islands or, are at least having their names associated with them. The one involving John Travolta turned out to be a ponzi scheme as most of them are and people have gone to jail in Italy over that one. Di Caprio, apparently, owns an island he is building into a playground for the rich and claiming it's 'eco'. Whether they are actually involved is questionable. Of course all of these developments make small community donations and large political ones. They are all taxed and heavily. The problem that you may not understand is that even this income is so small that it barely allows the basics. Belize now owes a British politician (who owns the Belize Bank) more money than it can possibly pay among many other debts that leave it in constant financial crisis. While high taxes for foreign investment sounds good in theory, it simply drives away foreign investors who can get cheaper and better elsewhere.

And that is exactly what many of us do here. I don't live on the beach. I don't have a boat. I can't remember the last time I even spent any time on the beach. Not living here so that one doesn't have to see the poverty doesn't change it.
 
Locals know how to build schools. $10,000 wouldn't even come close to beginning the process of getting a school built here, much less laying a single stone. It's a great programme for those places where it works. The costs of building a school are not just concrete either. Ongoing costs are a huge burden. Most government run schools here are built and managed by churches. This is St. John's in Belize City. It's one of the better schools. https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...39a/t/5661d1cbe4b0746e9ead5c94/1449251278784/

Unfortunately, Belize has been overrun by USA evangelical groups and they don't tolerate other groups pushing into their fundraising exploits. That doesn't mean great things don't happen and that the community isn't active. This group, for example, are just finishing up the final stages of building the first shelter for women and children on Ambergris Caye. https://www.facebook.com/raisemeupbelize/ There are many other excellent programmes like this across the country. But I have to stress that many people simply don't understand how tiny this country actually is.

If you feel you'd like to help Belize, that's a good group to donate to.
 
Wondergirl said:
Which Wednesday are you referring to - prior to them being missing or after?

What is you're theory, BZMon?
Click to expand...

Wednesday they went missing. The people here think one of them saw something or knew something. They act like scrambling or panic on Wednesday. Someone also saw Drew Wednesday in evening talking to two gringos in Xiabe village. People know something they not saying. Police talk to people who saw them. Why do people say he wasn't seen when he was? My theory is F and D saw or knew something and someone makes example out of them.

Also, police arrest two Belizean known criminals after F and D murders. They let go after two days no evidence. One of them supposed to be Zeidy old boyfriend, girl who was murdered with boyfriend last three weeks.
 
BZMon said:
Wednesday they went missing. The people here think one of them saw something or knew something. They act like scrambling or panic on Wednesday. Someone also saw Drew Wednesday in evening talking to two gringos in Xiabe village. People know something they not saying. Police talk to people who saw them. Why do people say he wasn't seen when he was? My theory is F and D saw or knew something and someone makes example out of them.

Also, police arrest two Belizean known criminals after F and D murders. They let go after two days no evidence. One of them supposed to be Zeidy old boyfriend, girl who was murdered with boyfriend last three weeks.
Click to expand...

Interesting, thanks!
Wondering if the person found murdered in Xiabe Village was identified and if the killer(s) might have any connection to the recent double murders?
speculation, imo.
Rbbm. noting the diver certificate and that D had been interested in starting a diving business.

https://www.breakingbelizenews.com/...ered-xaibe-village-boundary-corozal-district/
[h=1]Caucasian body discovered outside Xaibe Village boundary in the Corozal District[/h]
Click to expand...

Monday, 07 September 2015. BMG: Corozal Police are currently investigating the details surrounding the discovery of a male Caucasian body that was discovered outside the Xaibe Village boundary in the Corozal District
Click to expand...

Officials also say that they found an American divers license on the person of the deceased and also observed apparent chop wounds to the head, left shoulder and right arm.
Click to expand...
 
BZMon said:
New to this. Several things to say.
1. I live in Belize. I have a friend who knows two people who saw Drew on motorcycle on Wednesday. Police know. More people saw him. My friend knows someone who saw Francesca on Wed too. Some reason people don't want to believe they were seen.
2. Drew hit his head diving on Thursday before missing. 30 people saw him.
3. There are lots of cameras on streets in Corozal.
Click to expand...
What do you think happened to them?
 
I just read a blog that stated that the property taxes in Corozal were about $25 a year in 2016. Perhaps after cleaning up the corrupt government, they could start with that issue in trying to obtain more money to put in the public purse and start building their infrastructure.

What happened to that great article that someone posted about the difference between Belize and the Caymen Islands as far as how they both were developed after they gained independence? The Caymen Islands are smaller and have only had their independence for 55 years. Both are/were British Colonies. Why is one so prosperous and the other so poor?

Compliance about the government corruption and state of perpetual poverty from the citizens of the country, and the belief that nothing can be done to fix this, is the reason why the problem continues to fester and grow IMO.

MOO
 
PaxBelize said:
Locals know how to build schools. $10,000 wouldn't even come close to beginning the process of getting a school built here, much less laying a single stone. It's a great programme for those places where it works. The costs of building a school are not just concrete either. Ongoing costs are a huge burden. Most government run schools here are built and managed by churches. This is St. John's in Belize City. It's one of the better schools. https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...39a/t/5661d1cbe4b0746e9ead5c94/1449251278784/

Unfortunately, Belize has been overrun by USA evangelical groups and they don't tolerate other groups pushing into their fundraising exploits. That doesn't mean great things don't happen and that the community isn't active. This group, for example, are just finishing up the final stages of building the first shelter for women and children on Ambergris Caye. https://www.facebook.com/raisemeupbelize/ There are many other excellent programmes like this across the country. But I have to stress that many people simply don't understand how tiny this country actually is.

If you feel you'd like to help Belize, that's a good group to donate to.
Click to expand...
You stated that police are paid $100-200 week and judging by the price of real estate, I do think $10,000 is alot of money in a country like that. While the schools they build are open air buildings, the sponsors supply much of the materials and there are many facets of the program.

The WE Foundation is not religious or politically based. It aims to empower children and communities alike. It is a Canadian Foundation and is likely very different from what you have seen.

My understanding is that most ex-pats are looking to enjoy fun in the sun and island living. I'm sure there's the odd exception, but, unless one is there to assist those in need for a religious or political purpose, why else would someone choose to live in a developing, third world country? I can't get my head around the lawlessness and acceptance of no justice.
 
Kamille said:
I just read a blog that stated that the property taxes in Corozal were about $25 a year in 2016. Perhaps after cleaning up the corrupt government, they could start with that issue in trying to obtain more money to put in the public purse and start building their infrastructure.

What happened to that great article that someone posted about the difference between Belize and the Caymen Islands as far as how they both were developed after they gained independence? The Caymen Islands are smaller and have only had their independence for 55 years. Both are/were British Colonies. Why is one so prosperous and the other so poor?

Compliance about the government corruption and state of perpetual poverty from the citizens of the country, and the belief that nothing can be done to fix this, is the reason why the problem continues to fester and grow IMO.

MOO
Click to expand...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jan/16/tale-of-two-small-countries/
Cayman is rich, and Belize is poor. Why? Both are small Caribbean countries with the same climate and roughly the same mixed racial heritage, and both were English-speaking British colonies. Belize (the former British Honduras) received its independence in 1981, while Cayman is still not fully independent but is self-governing at the local level, with its own currency, laws and regulations.

Belize should be richer: It has a larger population than Cayman (345,000 as contrasted with Cayman’s 54,000). Belize has a much larger and more varied land area with many more natural resources, including gas and oil, and some rich agricultural land that Cayman lacks. Both have nice beaches, but Belize has the second-largest barrier reef in the world after Australia and also has Mayan ruins. Yet Cayman, with fewer points of interests, has done more to attract tourists.

Back in the early 1970s, Cayman was as poor on a per capita basis as is Belize today. Both countries had ambitions to be tourist and financial centers. Cayman succeeded and has about six times the real per capita income of Belize. What did Cayman do right and Belize do wrong?
Click to expand...

Perhaps most important is that Cayman had and maintained a competent and honest judicial system, which gave foreign investors confidence that their property would be protected. Cayman also has a very low crime rate. Tourists and other visitors walk around freely day or night in Cayman without fear. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for many parts of Belize, where crime is often a problem. In addition, many judges in Belize are poorly trained, incompetent and, in some cases, corrupt. These issues cause foreign investors to consider higher-risk factors for projects in Belize as contrasted with Cayman.

Belize has a more investor-friendly tax system than the United States, but Cayman has no corporate or individual income taxes on noncitizens and citizens alike - advantage Cayman. The problem for Belize is that it is competing with the likes of Cayman, Bermuda, the Bahamas and the British Virgin Islands, but not the United States. Also, the regulatory environment in Cayman is largely free of corruption, which is not true in Belize.
Click to expand...

It is obvious why Cayman is rich and Belize is poor, and it comes down to one word: governance. If Belize would clean up its courts, fully protect property rights and adopt the best economic practices of its competitors, it could quickly become rich
Click to expand...
 
Wondergirl said:
What do you think happened to them?
Click to expand...

I think they know something they shouldn't know. Some of their friends know too but don't tell police. Somebody makes example out of them. In Corozal we want the truth, not hide it. They were nice people.
 
Also, Rio Hondo is dangerous. Many people in Corozal take boats down river, sometimes not for good.
 
Wondergirl said:
You stated that police are paid $100-200 week and judging by the price of real estate, I do think $10,000 is alot of money in a country like that. While the schools they build are open air buildings, the sponsors supply much of the materials and there are many facets of the program.

The WE Foundation is not religious or politically based. It aims to empower children and communities alike. It is a Canadian Foundation and is likely very different from what you have seen.

My understanding is that most ex-pats are looking to enjoy fun in the sun and island living. I'm sure there's the odd exception, but, unless one is there to assist those in need for a religious or political purpose, why else would someone choose to live in a developing, third world country? I can't get my head around the lawlessness and acceptance of no justice.
Click to expand...

That may be your understanding but the truth is that most people who move to Belize from abroad are considerably invested in making this a better place for everyone. If they just wanted fun in the sun (oh and Belize is not an island and Corozal is on the mainland) there are many cheaper places with a better infrastructure. Belize is the most expensive place to live in Central America. You may not be able to get your head around it, but it is the way of the world, even in the USA, where there are daily reports of quite terrifying lawlessness and a lack of justice. We just have it on a smaller and much more in your face way. I was reading about Glastonbury Festival in the UK today and there are only slightly fewer people at that rock concert than there are in the whole country of Belize. Yes, things are different here. It's OK that you don't understand that. Things are actually different all over the world from North America. I moved here from abroad. I rarely go to the beach. I work very hard. Not everyone moves here for 'fun in the sun'. You can get that in many places.
 
BZMon said:
Also, Rio Hondo is dangerous. Many people in Corozal take boats down river, sometimes not for good.
Click to expand...
Are you suggesting this crime has something to do with D & F witnessing a crime on Rio Hondo?

Do you think the 2 sets of double murders are related to each other?

Do you know exactly how Drew hurt his head diving?
 
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