Billings -Couple with 12 adopted children murdered #4

[mom23gr8kids]

Also at pnj.com today, Ashley has looked through the business records and has found no loan to LPG, jr. BIg surprise he's a liar.

 

[catfishb]

Also at pnj.com today, Ashley has looked through the business records and has found no loan to LPG, jr. BIg surprise he's a liar.

They found no paperwork on a loan, big difference.

 

[RubberNecker]

http://ricksblog.biz/?p=6952[/URL]


so after reading this blog entry

Does the family atty's denial of the possibility of this loan really expect us to believe, based on the fact that the businesses in question have some unconventional money & sometimes questionable money handling practices, that they did everything BY the book, ON the books, in only ONE set of books?

 

[Lossmitpro]

If anyone has a subscription.... might be good to run some of the POI and their associates names against Alabama court records, as well as the searches already done in Florida.

http://www.alacourt.com/Servicewhole.Asp?Page=services.htm

 

[STEADFAST]

I've seen it posited on here (or maybe just hinted) that the murder of the Billings could be a hit ordered by some criminal organization. That could be true, but I've never read about a professional hit that went down like this. Why would a hit man not, for instance, shoot Byrd with a high powered rifle when he was, say, in his yard, or blow him up in his car? Why would he kill Melanie? Why would a criminal organization want 8-10 people in on a hit?

This murder seems more like a grudge murder or a robbery gone way wrong. From what we know of Gonzales Jr., he seems just like the kind of person who would form a grievance against someone and become enraged and bitter. He also seems like the kind of person who would revel in a commando-style attack. He could have put together a group of people with wild tales of what could be found in the home of a man who had "cash-type" businesses, and convince them to join him in this huge "heist." He may have even believed there was a huge treasure of valuable items in the home himself.
Then, the Billings were murdered and no treasure was evident (or they couldn't open the rumored floor safe) and they high-tailed it out of there with the easily portable safe and briefcase.

The whole crime just seems over complicated and too risky for a professional hit to me. It's not as if the Billings were holed up in a heavily guarded compound that needed to be stormed.

 

[chattycathy]

Since they had a an attempt that was thwarted by flood lights is it possible security was successfully disabled that time, but the Billings realized it and changed the system so the next time they came the system was unable to be bypassed. What I am saying is maybe the person who was suppossed to diable security and attepted to but couldn't. They didn't have cold feet. JMO

 

[Missizzy]

Dood--I'd like to respectfully correct your statement:

"Actually a disability automatically qualifies....a perfectly healthy child may not qualify in the same situation maybe, but a proven medical/developmental disability automatically qualifies."

If you are referring to SSI, this is only partially correct. A child may be found categorically eligible (or presumptively eligible) in the case of Down Syndrome, a functional IQ under 69, many types of Spectrum Disorder, or for numerous other health and/or developmental disabilities. However, the program is "means based" which means that a family's income is counted against the child. So, the child might be eligible for SSI but not receiving any payments. Almost surely, though, the child would receive Medicaid. And Medicaid does not automatically continue throughout life. A person must make re-application upon their 18th or 21st birthday (depending on the state).

The federal IV-E Adoption Assistance program and state based programs have different eligibility criteria. They are not permitted to be means based but rather are based on the needs of the child and limited only by the amount the child would receive if that child were in foster care. So, if the Billings had pursued AAP for any of their children--state placed or privately placed--their income would not be counted against the child.

I'm really not certain that the semantics of adoption assistance is a big factor in this case IMO. I just want to make certain that the facts are straight.

If I may address the issue of the woman on Youtube, however, I have an observation. Those of us in the adoption world are well aware of people such as this person who has a serious ax to grind with social service agencies. Termination of parental rights is a wrenching process that can often lead to threats and even violence. I live in a county where foster children were taken from a social worker at gunpoint. Recently, a young boy in an Oregon town was abducted from his bed in his foster home. This is a threat which hangs over the heads of anyone raising a child who has been removed through the actions of the court. I don't see this to be the case, though, in the Billings family IMO.

There are those parents, and even others, who believe that our children's services agencies are essentially "child savers" who pluck children from their families of origin due to poverty, inexperienced parenting, a single minor criminal infraction, etc. and place the child with an adoptive family of a higher socio-economic standing.

When a child enters the system, a funding flow begins for the child. The foster care system costs the US billions of dollars each year and is a flawed system IMO. I think just about everyone would agree with that statement. However, watchdog groups such as the National Center for Youth Law and the North American Council on Adoptable Children (the agency I worked for) are continuously lobbying the States for improvement and transparency.

Celeste (or whatever her name is) has some valid points. She is negating her message, however, with her sensationalistic platform and vitriolic approach. I have lived in the adoption world for 26 years and fought for change but there is still much systemic work to be done. I just want to validate an angry biological parent's position.

The system is NOT always fair or just. And yes it does seem wrong to many that a birth-parent would have their rights stripped away and someone else could be "paid" to raise their child. I can even follow her thought process (in a round-about way) to where she compares the act of special needs adoption to human trafficking. I do NOT agree with the woman, however, in any way at all. And I am appalled that she would choose the Billings case to launch her campaign.

Celeste quotes several figures in her various videos which are misleading. One video flashes the number $4000 on the screen. This is the incentive payment to states when they move a child from foster care to adoption. Even paying adoption assistance in the same amount as foster care, taxpayers save money. Permanency equals saved dollars. If you care to read a fact sheet on this, I would refer you to this page:

http://nacac.org/adoptionsubsidy/factsheets/affordable.html

Non-recurring adoption expenses are paid to an adoptive family living in Florida up to the amount of $1000. This payment does NOT go directly to the adoptive family, however. It is strictly to cover the costs of an adoption; travel, attorney fees, etc. If anyone has any questions concerning the actual laws, regulations, and policies of the state of Florida concerning adoption and assistance, please check out this site:

http://nacac.org/adoptionsubsidy/stateprofiles/florida.html

And if anyone cares to help improve the foster care/adoption system, please consider volunteering for your local Citizen's Review Board or the CASA program.

 

[Sola.N]

I've seen it posited on here (or maybe just hinted) that the murder of the Billings could be a hit ordered by some criminal organization. That could be true, but I've never read about a professional hit that went down like this. Why would a hit man not, for instance, shoot Byrd with a high powered rifle when he was, say, in his yard, or blow him up in his car? Why would he kill Melanie? Why would a criminal organization want 8-10 people in on a hit?

I totally agree. My father worked in LE for decades and ran across professional hit men in the course of his career. They mostly worked alone. They went in and got the job done, no witnesses, no blabbermouth accomplices, no polka-dotted vans.

If it was a hit, it was the least professional one I've ever heard of. Eight or nine or even more people in on it? Sheesh! Wayyyy too many mouths to blab and rat out whoever paid for it.

 

[chattycathy]

There is also a link earlier in this thread to pnj I believe, that stated LPG jr at one time worked for Purshu auto sales one of BB's dealerships

 

[Lossmitpro]

This murder seems more like a grudge murder or a robbery gone way wrong.

The whole crime just seems over complicated and too risky for a professional hit to me.

(snipped good logic)

I agree with your thinking here. If I may be allowed to speculate, I think the two egos of Pam Wiggins and Jr were a crime-cocktail, and each had their own interests in making this happen, so they became literally 'partners in crime', as much for the glamor and ego-high, as for the practical advantages they must have assumed they could gain. Two self-important narcissists. No Dixie mafia needed. No MS-13. No child kidnapping rings. No dope hidden in used auction autos. At least, those attributes (if present) were not *central* to the crime, IMHO.

 

[sharlie]

has anyone seen at pnj.com ----where it says document sheds light?
but when i click on it nothing happens?

 

[catfishb]

Purshu and Markham are the same lot. It changed names in the last year or so. FWIW

 

[MCDRAW]

I've seen it posited on here (or maybe just hinted) that the murder of the Billings could be a hit ordered by some criminal organization. That could be true, but I've never read about a professional hit that went down like this. Why would a hit man not, for instance, shoot Byrd with a high powered rifle when he was, say, in his yard, or blow him up in his car? Why would he kill Melanie? Why would a criminal organization want 8-10 people in on a hit?

This murder seems more like a grudge murder or a robbery gone way wrong. From what we know of Gonzales Jr., he seems just like the kind of person who would form a grievance against someone and become enraged and bitter. He also seems like the kind of person who would revel in a commando-style attack. He could have put together a group of people with wild tales of what could be found in the home of a man who had "cash-type" businesses, and convince them to join him in this huge "heist." He may have even believed there was a huge treasure of valuable items in the home himself.
Then, the Billings were murdered and no treasure was evident (or they couldn't open the rumored floor safe) and they high-tailed it out of there with the easily portable safe and briefcase.

The whole crime just seems over complicated and too risky for a professional hit to me. It's not as if the Billings were holed up in a heavily guarded compound that needed to be stormed.

I agree. I don't think it was a professional hit but I do think someone wanted them dead.

 

[nmr00]

I've seen it posited on here (or maybe just hinted) that the murder of the Billings could be a hit ordered by some criminal organization. That could be true, but I've never read about a professional hit that went down like this. Why would a hit man not, for instance, shoot Byrd with a high powered rifle when he was, say, in his yard, or blow him up in his car? Why would he kill Melanie? Why would a criminal organization want 8-10 people in on a hit?

This murder seems more like a grudge murder or a robbery gone way wrong. From what we know of Gonzales Jr., he seems just like the kind of person who would form a grievance against someone and become enraged and bitter. He also seems like the kind of person who would revel in a commando-style attack. He could have put together a group of people with wild tales of what could be found in the home of a man who had "cash-type" businesses, and convince them to join him in this huge "heist." He may have even believed there was a huge treasure of valuable items in the home himself.
Then, the Billings were murdered and no treasure was evident (or they couldn't open the rumored floor safe) and they high-tailed it out of there with the easily portable safe and briefcase.

The whole crime just seems over complicated and too risky for a professional hit to me. It's not as if the Billings were holed up in a heavily guarded compound that needed to be stormed.

I agree but then how does that explain PLW? In the cnn article it said that during one of the attempts at night she was sitting in her car either on the driveway or in the road next to their house - kinda shocking that she was that involved and is free now.

 

[Lossmitpro]

Damage control.

Indeed. Not sure of particulars, but someone needs to tell family attorney that all facts will eventually come out, so full, accurate, no-trickery disclosure is the best policy.

"My understanding is, through speaking with the investigative agencies, that Mr. Gonzalez sought donations from a variety of community and business leaders and that perhaps Mr. Billings did not lend him money, but donated to this academy for children," Crystal Spencer, attorney for the Billings family, told CNN.

"It was ... a self-defense academy for children. But the connection goes no further that we are aware of."

The sheriff also told CNN that Gonzalez apparently was once on Billings' payroll.

"Mr. Gonzalez worked, I think, for an automobile dealership, and we're verifying that information that he worked with one of the companies that Mr. Billings had and owned an interest in," Morgan said.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/21/florida.slain.couple/

So there was no loan... BUT, ahem... well, maybe a gift... for the children... yeah!

But the sheriff says Jr was on the BB payroll...

I hate this kind of "Spin" crap.

 

[STEADFAST]

I agree but then how does that explain PLW? In the cnn article it said that during one of the attempts at night she was sitting in her car either on the driveway or in the road next to their house - kinda shocking that she was that involved and is free now.

I agree. She's a big question mark -- especially the being-free on low bond part!

 

[evelyn24]

i've seen it posited on here (or maybe just hinted) that the murder of the billings could be a hit ordered by some criminal organization. That could be true, but i've never read about a professional hit that went down like this. Why would a hit man not, for instance, shoot byrd with a high powered rifle when he was, say, in his yard, or blow him up in his car? Why would he kill melanie? Why would a criminal organization want 8-10 people in on a hit?

This murder seems more like a grudge murder or a robbery gone way wrong. from what we know of gonzales jr., he seems just like the kind of person who would form a grievance against someone and become enraged and bitter. He also seems like the kind of person who would revel in a commando-style attack. He could have put together a group of people with wild tales of what could be found in the home of a man who had "cash-type" businesses, and convince them to join him in this huge "heist." he may have even believed there was a huge treasure of valuable items in the home himself.
Then, the billings were murdered and no treasure was evident (or they couldn't open the rumored floor safe) and they high-tailed it out of there with the easily portable safe and briefcase.

The whole crime just seems over complicated and too risky for a professional hit to me. It's not as if the billings were holed up in a heavily guarded compound that needed to be stormed.

word word word

 

[Lossmitpro]

In line with the victim focus of the site, here is a good interview with Ashley Markham.

I respect her, and know that her parents were nothing but amazing to those kids, and everyone, myself included, probably ought to stop and mull on that every few posts as we go through this process.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=8132198&page=1


That said, though, I found the way she characterized her interest in knowing the particulars to be a bit odd, because it included this phrase:

"...there's parts [about why the murders were done] I don't ever need to know..." and she re-iterates the fact the children are the ultimate victims, which is so sad and so true. But maybe it's just 'cause I am a dude, but if this happened in my family, I would want to know every nuance, every fact, no matter how bitter. I just don't believe in living in denial or partial truths or covered over facts.

 

[Sola.N]

Thanks for the link, if for no other reason -- I think that the part under "FACTS" probably describes very typical behavior in these circles among these businessmen, and serves to illuminate that a lot of paper might be held, traded, relinquished, swapped, but not ever filed publicly in these types of transactions.

Interesting point. I think we've all heard of people holding checks as security, but I haven't seen it done in the higher dollar amounts like those in the court case that was linked.

Just a guess, but maybe some of these "hold" or post-dated checks were thought to be in the safe or the brief case.

 

[nursebeeme]

has anyone seen at pnj.com ----where it says document sheds light?
but when i click on it nothing happens?

wow.. something I can finally contribute to in this case (I duct taped my head back on thread one and haven't been able to follow along very well ever since) but that article should post shortly.. it has happened before where the title shows up and you cannot open it up at first. It should be there shortly.