Bosma Murder Trial 03.08.16 - Day 21

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.

Adam Carter
Mar 8 2016 12:10 PM
In the meantime, here's my recap from this morning:


zjdnoy.png


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/gun-likely-fired-inside-tim-bosma-s-truck-1.3481024

***Since it appears to me that the gun may be sitting on the table in the office of the Millard house, I'd love to know what was considered too prejudicial to be shown that has been blocked out in that picture.


MOO

If you look at the top of the grey box you will see that the left a little bit of whatever they were covering. It looks to be black and cylindrical, probably the top of a drink bottle of some sort.

gun.jpg

Maybe something like this, probably with a more gangsterish name though.

Hydrive+Blue+Raspberry.jpg
 
That's true. In some aspects of the trial, the things the jury "doesn't know" could actually look more sinister with regards to just this case, however it could also be a big hindrance.

They also don't know why he owned a gun and took pictures of it. However, DM purchased the incinerator almost a year prior and the pictures of the gun were from more than a year earlier. Unless the jury is willing to make the leap that he had been planning this murder for a year or more, and without the Crown being able to show that he lied about why he purchased the incinerator, I'm afraid that whole thing may just be a confusing issue for the jury.

They know he purchased an incinerator in June 2012 through an employee, under the guise of purchasing it for MillardAir. They do not know why, nor what he or the employee told anyone as to the reason why. The Crown was unable to provide testimony as to what he told anyone. So it hinges right now on what SS is going to say about what he was told directly that it was for. Something tells me he's not going to be saying he was told it was for disposing of a body in the barn. So it's probably going to be wide open for the defense to make subtle suggestions as to what it was purchased for. And all the jury has seen is a receipt that shows it was allocated to a utilities/garbage account for MillardAir.

They are seeing pictures of a gun. They can probably reasonably deduce that it was the same gun used to kill TB. Will they make the leap to assuming that because DM or MS brought a loaded gun, that they had both been pictured with, one of them over a year earlier, to steal a truck, that they premeditated a murder with that gun? Or just an armed robbery that morphed into a murder?

And without the background info on the other charges that both are facing, will they be able to see a motive for premeditating a murder?

MOO

Much of the evidence in this case seems to be circumstantial, but man, there is a LOT of circumstantial evidence! And the judge has already advised that circumstantial evidence holds the same value as direct evidence, one is not better than the other. It makes no difference when, or for what reason the incinerator was purchased, nor whether it had ever been used for that type of purpose in the past, and same with the gun. Those things are just piece by piece by piece by piece of evidence piling up to tell a story.

They find an incinerator, and oh look, it has human bones belonging to a male human between the ages of 30 and 40 inside. The incinerator was found on his property, could have been someone else's, except they also proved that DM had purchased it. They find evidence of a blood-letting event occurring inside TB's truck on the passenger side.. they know that TB had sat in the passenger seat. They find a bullet casing that would fit a 380.. then they find pictures showing that DM had in his hand at some prior time, exactly that type of gun. And the evidence just keeps coming.

I am amazed and awed by how much evidence LE has accumulated, and that when pieced all together, it tells a viable story of what could have, or was even likely to have occurred. Neither of the accuseds seem to want to speak in their own defence, so the story line, with its accompanying volumes of pieces of circumstantial evidence, will be all that the jury has to go on. And imo, it is way more than enough.

I guess we won't know for sure whether either of the defendants will end up testifying, but my guess is that they will continue to uphold their respective rights to remain silent, in the hopes that the jury isn't able to add one plus one equals two. Fat chance. They have SO much evidence. I think that one or the other is going to HAVE to testify against the other, if he has any hope of a lesser charge/sentence, but for the sake of not being considered a 'rat' while serving time in prison, that is unlikely to happen. MOO
 
Regarding the audio sounds from the camera at Bobcat of Brantford 585 Oak Park Rd

I doubt those would have been gunshots
Shots from a Walther 9mm are more like a pop-pop
There is a double rail track nearby and big semi trucks will make a boom-boom sound when crossing , especially if they have open steel trailers , it can even shake the ground a bit .
If there was a big truck went by on the video that would be it.
We should get to see the video Wednesday


.....................
(from the article) http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-trial-gun-likely-fired-inside-truck-1.3481024

Mar 8 2016 2:39 PM
Adam Carter

There is audio this video, but it's near the HVAC system, so there's a lot of background noise. "Just as the vehicle arrives there are two quite loud booming sounds quite close together," Plaxton says.
....................

You are quite possibly right, but consider this; If TB was alive and being held at gunpoint, he would have known he was in serious trouble. On top of that his captor is now signalling a turn off a main road in to a dark, deserted parking lot. This may have been TBs "go time" as Millard turned the wheel and his eyes were occupied navigating the dark entranceway. If TB made a stand, that is probably where I would have expected to happen.
 
I am thinking that it must be *killing* these guys (the accuseds) to hear some of this evidence.. because the evidence is all being pieced together, bit by bit, and surely some of it will be off in one regard or another. It must be really difficult to hold your silence when you hear things that you *know* are incorrect, but hold it they must, or else they incriminate themselves. When I hear about DM pulling out his pad and pencil to start taking notes when there is blood spatter evidence... it just *kills* me, because to me, that is also incriminating himself indirectly. Why is he taking notes? To see where the Crown/LE screwed up? What is he to do with that info? To me, he really and truly *isn't* the brightest star in the sky.
 
I am thinking that it must be *killing* these guys (the accuseds) to hear some of this evidence.. because the evidence is all being pieced together, bit by bit, and surely some of it will be off in one regard or another. It must be really difficult to hold your silence when you hear things that you *know* are incorrect, but hold it they must, or else they incriminate themselves. When I hear about DM pulling out his pad and pencil to start taking notes when there is blood spatter evidence... it just *kills* me, because to me, that is also incriminating himself indirectly. Why is he taking notes? To see where the Crown/LE screwed up? What is he to do with that info? To me, he really and truly *isn't* the brightest star in the sky.

If Millard needs to take notes, he's free to take them. I think you are overthinking this and I doubt the jury gives it any thought. As far as these guys being shocked at the evidence, I think they are well aware of what was going to be presented as it would have been given to them in discovery. I don't think either of them are denying any of the evidence presented thus far. Its going to come down to each of them saying the other guy did it without their knowledge.
 
I also believe that MS's phone ran out of 'juice'. Seems to me that MS and MM communicated constantly.. plus the duo didn't ever suspect that they would be 'caught' since only the Bates phone had been used thus far to communicate with TB, and they had turned that one off.. forever. DM continued to use his, not suspecting the two phones would ever be linked to same locations. I wonder if police confiscated DM's actual phone when they arrested him, and if so, it would have shown attempts to try to reach MS... would that type of info not be available just from the Rogers provider, ie attempted texts/calls to a dead phone number? Or would the records from the provider only show completed texts/calls? I can't recall any mention ever, of LE having retrieved DM's cellphone, can anyone else? Anyway, that was likely just another little glitch in their plan.. MS's phone running out of battery-power.. which to me suggests that MS at least, wasn't expecting in advance, this excursion to take place.


I personally can't believe MS's luck to have had his battery run out within a minute of Tim's phone being shut off. It's so amazingly coincidental, it actually makes me suspect that his phone was turned off at the same time he turned off Tim's. Too bad no one told DM's to turn off his personal phone.
 
I believe the expert watched the video at Bobcat 30-40 times (frankly I found that number shockingly low) trying to figure out the dimly flickering lights that he said he suspected where people smoking.

We know MS smoked, we have seen him skateboarding and smoking and hanging out in front of stores smoking, but does anyone know if DM smoked? Surely if he smoked there would crumbled up old packs in some of the pictures, does anyone remember seeing cigarette packs in any of the photos of junk?
 
The Crown has to prove the fact that DM owned and/or had access to the incinerator on the night of May 6th. SS could take the stand and say that he was to told that it was bought to dispose of garbage at the hangar, or whatever he may have been told about its' use...the 'reason' SS may provide really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. IMO, the Crown has already established beyond any reasonable doubt that DM had ownership/access to the incinerator on the night in question. JMO

Regardless if it was a planned murder or not, the 1st degree murder charge is in play due to the 'forcible confinement' of TB leading to his death and that is what the Crown will have to prove to the jury. AFAIK, and I may be interpreting section 279 incorrectly, but according to the Code and applying it in this case TB was 'forcibly' confined in the truck once DM/MS brought out the gun. I feel that there has been enough circumstantial evidence presented by the Crown so far that 'forcible confinement' did occur (MOO), and there is a lot more testimony and evidence to come.

Salute to the mods, contributors and those taking taking the time to post MSM tweets. This site has been very informative and it's a credit to all of you. I have been following (and lurking) since the start of the trial....I live in Toronto and this case really resonated with a lot of people in the GTA and surrounding areas. My boss lives 5 minutes away from DM's Maple Gate residence and she has said that it's unnerving to think about what type of people may live just down the street. I hope that the Bosma family sees justice served. My heart goes out to them.

*****So glad you had the courage to post....good on you.
First time I've read someone posting here who brought up the idea of a different first degree murder charge..... Everyone is so hung up on "the planned and deliberate act" that must be fully demonstrated by the Crown.
You refer to forcible confinement quite rightly I think...and what of the obvious act of abduction..... There are several other forms of culpable homicide that are automatically considered to be first degree murder....such as the killing of a police officer...kidnapping....forcible confinement causing death....ETC
For anyone interested in reading further..simply Google Murder vs Manslaughter CBC.ca Links to a short but excellent article that deals with the whole topic of homicide from first degree murder through to infanticide.....written in plain English. Well worth the reading given that it relates directly to the conversation here.

I am am not a lawyer and I would welcome a professional opinion right about now.....but this article certainly peaked my interest.

All in my opinion only..... {and then there is the definition of "accomplice".....but that's another conversation.}
 
If you look at the top of the grey box you will see that the left a little bit of whatever they were covering. It looks to be black and cylindrical, probably the top of a drink bottle of some sort.

attachment.php


Maybe something like this, probably with a more gangsterish name though.

attachment.php


Has anyone figured out yet if the gun MS is pictured holding (finger freckle) is the same gun DM is holding? Which pictures came first, does anyone remember? Is it possible that one bought the gun off the other or that they shared it?

For all we know, the pics were to help DM research it before he bought it, since he seemed to like to take his time researching his items before he bought them from what we have seen.

My opinion only.
 
*****So glad you had the courage to post....good on you.
First time I've read someone posting here who brought up the idea of a different first degree murder charge..... Everyone is so hung up on "the planned and deliberate act" that must be fully demonstrated by the Crown.
You refer to forcible confinement quite rightly I think...and what of the obvious act of abduction..... There are several other forms of culpable homicide that are automatically considered to be first degree murder....such as the killing of a police officer...kidnapping....forcible confinement causing death....ETC
For anyone interested in reading further..simply Google Murder vs Manslaughter CBC.ca Links to a short but excellent article that deals with the whole topic of homicide from first degree murder through to infanticide.....written in plain English. Well worth the reading given that it relates directly to the conversation here.

I am am not a lawyer and I would welcome a professional opinion right about now.....but this article certainly peaked my interest.

All in my opinion only.....

If one ges back to the first year and a half of posts here, one can see that every single possible combination and nuance of this law has been discussed from every possible angle.

If the vehicle was in motion, it would be confinement, but if the vehicle was stopped it would have been possible for the victim to escape, and therefore confinement is harder to prove. If the gun was used to confine the victim's movements it could be confinement, but if that was the case then every crime that involves a gun or threat of any kind would be confinement and an automatic upgrade to first degree, and I don't think that is the case.

All my opinion only.
 
I believe the expert watched the video at Bobcat 30-40 times (frankly I found that number shockingly low) trying to figure out the dimly flickering lights that he said he suspected where people smoking.

We know MS smoked, we have seen him skateboarding and smoking and hanging out in front of stores smoking, but does anyone know if DM smoked? Surely if he smoked there would crumbled up old packs in some of the pictures, does anyone remember seeing cigarette packs in any of the photos of junk?

Random thought. We know SB smokes, or smoked at the time of TB's disappearance. Anyone know if TB was also a smoker? I feel like it's rare that only one of a couple smokes. Anyway, what if they pulled into that parking lot with TB to "check some more things out" on the truck since they only spent a couple minutes looking at the Bosma house. They also could have used a "let's all have a smoke break" and TB lit one up with them. And this is where they planned on just ditching TB there and driving away but something went wrong, or this is where TB got suspicious. I dunno, I don't think this is what happened but just mulling over the potential cigarette sighting in the video. MOO, Just rambling.
 
The video surveillance time stamps and Bullard's testimony after the 3 left the Bosma residence really got me to thinking about how fast this all went down :(

A vehicle matching the Yukon seen on Super Sucker's cameras at 8:46pm headed south on Trinity
They left the Bosma driveway, turned left and drove straight to the field at Book & Trinity. (sometime after 9:05 when the Bate phone called Tim's phone)
MS got out of Tim's truck and into the Yukon. I suspect this is where Tim was shot.
Both vehicles exited the field, crossed Trinity and headed down Book Road towards Brantford. (Sometime after 9pm according to Bullard)
At some point they had to have turned around and came back to Trinity, to be spotted going north at the Super Sucker. (time stamp on video of 9:20)
Then 27 minutes later they were on video at the Bobcat dealership. (time stamp 9:47)

All this before SB was even beginning to worry about Tim. It's really mind-boggling when you realize just how fast evil like this can enter your world and change things forever.
 
Random thought. We know SB smokes, or smoked at the time of TB's disappearance. Anyone know if TB was also a smoker? I feel like it's rare that only one of a couple smokes. Anyway, what if they pulled into that parking lot with TB to "check some more things out" on the truck since they only spent a couple minutes looking at the Bosma house. They also could have used a "let's all have a smoke break" and TB lit one up with them. And this is where they planned on just ditching TB there and driving away but something went wrong, or this is where TB got suspicious. I dunno, I don't think this is what happened but just mulling over the potential cigarette sighting in the video. MOO, Just rambling.

It's a valid possibility. But how long does a potential test drive usually take before the owner gets suspicious? They weren't driving for 30-40 minutes around the vicinity of Ancaster - it seemed they were heading north toward Brantford in the dark. I've a feeling TB was probably dead at this point, and DM and MS regrouped on Oak Park Road to confirm their next steps - hence the faint lights appearing and the vehicles leaving without fanfare. There might've been more activity and noise had this been the time that DM and MS tried to dump then murder TB... Also, I think the Crown would've highlighted potential video evidence of the crime actually taking place in the opening statement to strengthen its case. JMO.
 
It's a valid possibility. But how long does a potential test drive usually take before the owner gets suspicious? They weren't driving for 30-40 minutes around the vicinity of Ancaster - it seemed they were heading north toward Brantford in the dark. I've a feeling TB was probably dead at this point, and DM and MS regrouped on Oak Park Road to confirm their next steps - hence the faint lights appearing and the vehicles leaving without fanfare. There might've been more activity and noise had this been the time that DM and MS tried to dump then murder TB... Also, I think the Crown would've highlighted potential video evidence of the crime actually taking place in its opening statement. JMO.

Ah yes, good point!

Also I keep going back to whoever said a couple pages back about how the things that the Crown are saying that could be inaccurate (ie them filling in the gaps of the evidence) and how that must be killing DM and MS to hear. Too bad they won't stand up and yell "WRONG! That's not what happened! This is what went down!"

My husband and I always talk about crimes like these and how it's so bizarre that someone *knows* exactly what happened. Like these guys were there. They know what happened. And the rest of us just have to sit back and guess.
 
Court now in session. The jury is being brought in. #TimBosma #BosMA

@adamcarterCBC
 
SC:Jury is here and forensic video expert Michael Plaxton is back in the witness box at the Tim #Bosma murder trial.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
135
Guests online
2,316
Total visitors
2,451

Forum statistics

Threads
601,986
Messages
18,132,939
Members
231,204
Latest member
EyeSpice
Back
Top