Bosma Murder Trial 04.13.16 - Day 34

[chaines]

I know many people who carry a pocket knife every day. My interpretation is that the only laws specific to knives prohibit switchblades, butterfly knives, etc. It is legal to carry a knife (concealed or not) as a tool, but not as a weapon. I'm not a lawyer, this is MOO. But if I'm wrong, I would like to know so I stop carrying my pocket knife before I get arrested for it.

you are correct...it is the type of knives you describe that are prohibited

edit: Snooperduper posted a clear response I didn't see. Thanks Super

 

[Inspector_North]

That's an interesting scenario Claroon but, as you say, the phone was one minute back from the Bobcat stop. Also, if TB threw the phone out the window it would have to have been rolled down and wasn't it back up when/if it was shattered by a bullet?

I've wondered, if it's true that the murder didn't happen until the Bobcat area maybe DM had led TB to believe that he was taking him to his mechanic to check the truck over and/or to get the money. But then how did MS get in the Yukon that was following the truck when a friend was supposed to be waiting in it at TH. Just MOO.

"Jurors watched surveillance footage Wednesday of Tim Bosma’s truck moments after the Crown says he left for a test drive with two strangers who would murder him within minutes." http://www.lfpress.com/2016/03/09/path-of-bosmas-truck-mapped-out-for-court

I find the claim about minutes after interesting use of words. Hopefully they have the evidence to back that claim.

 

[deugirtni]

Even DM's girlfriend is/was much younger, so he was spared with wishes like "marry me", "be the father of my children" and so on.

Yes, it seems CN is 6 years younger than DM, which at age 18-19 when the two reportedly first became involved, put DM at close to 1/3 of her lifetime older than her. I am curious as to how impressed she is *now* with her 'rich' boyfriend?

Noudga has been involved with Millard since the summer of 2011 although he continued to see other women.

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/tag/christina-noudga

.... Four months in jail likely haven’t done much for her appearance either.
....

Noudga’s family and friends showed up to support the accused, who marked her 22nd birthday in jail
....

Bail was granted on Friday August 8 and set at $100,000. ....

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2014/08/bail-decision-for-christina-noudga-on-friday-august-8.html

 

[Lorelei1]

"Jurors watched surveillance footage Wednesday of Tim Bosma’s truck moments after the Crown says he left for a test drive with two strangers who would murder him within minutes." http://www.lfpress.com/2016/03/09/path-of-bosmas-truck-mapped-out-for-court

I find the claim about minutes after interesting use of words. Hopefully they have the evidence to back that claim.

I was just thinking about that too after I made the post and was wondering how they know that to be true. I've wondered before if the neighbour saw two different vehicles pulling out of the laneway and that the murder happened later on the test drive.

 

[Coldpizza]

Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont 15m15 minutes ago
Tim #Bosma murder trial begins at 9:30 with legal arguments. Andrew Michalski back for cross exam after that. No trial Friday.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I've lately been puzzling over the fact that in both test drives they didn't arrive in a car. I thought maybe there would be evidence that someone did drop them off. But we haven't heard any. So:
How did they actually get there? And how did they get home from the first test drive? In both cases did they park their vehicle far enough away and then walk?

I believe they did arrive in a car (or, a Yukon) for both test drives. They just parked it in a secluded/concealed area then walked to the residence(s). The more I think about it, the more I become convinced the test drive with IT was more of a dry run than anything else. Since we've heard DM ask AM if he should steal from the a-hole or the nice guy, I think when they saw IT in person they probably both knew nothing but a test drive was going to happen that day. He quite likely intimidated them both.

 

[deugirtni]

The more controversial witnesses might avoid drawing attention to themselves by waiting in a room, but the majority simply wait in the hallway with everyone else. Quick story:

The first time I went to the courthouse, my girlfriend and I ate our lunch in the cafeteria. When we first got there the only other person around was SB's father, eating a bowl of soup by himself. More people slowly arrived: Dungey and Trehearne, a couple of police officers, Pillay and Sachak, a bunch of random people. I vividly remember Sachak standing over SB's dad and asking with a big smile, "How's the soup today?"

Eventually SB arrived and I saw her joking and laughing with her dad and a couple other members of her family. Everybody seemed to be in good spirits that day. Then my girlfriend overheard a lady sitting behind me ask her male friend, "Is that SB over there?" The man didn't know, so my girlfriend chimed in to confirm that yes, it was SB. The lady, seemingly annoyed that my girlfriend was eavesdropping, gave her a dismissive look and started snickering with her friend, so we just paid them no mind.

Later, back in the courtroom, the Crown called DM's bookkeeper, Lisa Williams, up to the stand. My girlfriend immediately recognized her as the lady from the cafeteria. We figured the man with her was Dubien because he never entered the courtroom, and I think he was supposed to be the next witness after LW. However, it was so apparent that he and his wife had no intention of cooperating on the stand that I believe the Crown just dropped him from the list.

I was wondering why it seems that Dubien is no longer on the witness list. I believe you are correct in your assumption. I am confused however, if the Crown believed they had worthwhile reason/testimony to put him on the stand, wouldn't that be based on his police statement from the time?... and if when the time came to actually testify, his information became different/useless for the Crown's case when it had previously been deemed useful, then wouldn't a person be charged with perjury or something?

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Really good point! I have clipped him out of the videos--quite blurry and not likely allowed in court of law, but for our viewing. I notice that bulky pocket sticking out.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv7OWZQrbrQ
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt_AvHl7vfU

View attachment 91943 View attachment 91944 View attachment 91945View attachment 91946

The hanger video:
The guy on the right even looks like he has Moobs when I paused in one section. Just before they walk around the corner.
The guy on the right has a weird shaped head in the front. Looks like he has a "duckbill" not a buzz cut.
To me, this guy looks bulkier then MS with bad posture at the neck.
JMO

Also, I don't think the hanger lights were on at this point but looks to me that there is a hanger light on. Look at the back area, the shadows. This tells me there is a light on and it's coming the left not from DM's flashlight. We've now hear that there is some accommodation in the hanger.

I know others have been "subsequently released without charges" but do we have proof by hanger video that AM or SS actually left the hanger at 8pm? From what I recall there were doors all around the hanger that didn't have cameras? I think MH had an alibi (game with dad or friend, can't remember)? With testimony thus far, I don't believe it was just MS and DM. All other "missions" has lookouts and more then 2 minons, what makes this "mission" any different?

Maybe someone with better knowledge can confirm or correct me here. I really had no clue what "subsequently released without charge" meant.
From what I've read on Subsequent release with no charge. AM said he voluntarily gave blood. We'll from what I read, he didn't have a choice if he wanted to be free. So to me, that is not voluntary. This also means he had to appear in court as part of that release, so again, no voluntary. I'm still a bit confused with this, so please feel free to correct me.

We also keep hearing "I haven't spoken to so an so since May 2013" SS-AJ, MH-AM etc. This is important to hear (I'm not sure I believe them all) but it could be part of the court order. Also it looks better when they are on the stand. When I was subpoenaed in on a criminal case, I was told to have NO contact with the victim, witnesses or the accused as it could criticality harm the case if I did. I was also asked that question.

I'm waiting on MM'S testimony and cell texts. There were 3 texts between MS and MM, May 6th during the crime at 9:19-9:20pm. Super curious to what those said, as that seems to be after TB left with them. There was also 1 from MM to DM at 9:02pm.

In NO way, shape or form am I saying MS wasn't there. I just feel that ALL people involved in TB's murder, clean up (TB and truck) and evidence tampering should be sitting right beside DM, MS and CN! Justice owes that to TB, SB, family and friends.

ETA: Forgot the all "MOO and JMO" of course.

 

[Inspector_North]

I was wondering why it seems that Dubien is no longer on the witness list. I believe you are correct in your assumption. I am confused however, if the Crown believed they had worthwhile reason/testimony to put him on the stand, wouldn't that be based on his police statement from the time?... and if when the time came to actually testify, his information became different/useless for the Crown's case when it had previously been deemed useful, then wouldn't a person be charged with perjury or something?

I find it interesting that they didn't ask RB about the date he heard from CD about the Pet Cremation business. If they do put CD on the stand, I would like to know when he told RB, and when he claims to have been told by DM.

 

[dar107]

I think AM was setting MH up to do the drop to MS himself. MH likely didn't have a lot of information about what was going on but AM sure did. It appears he didn't tell MH what he knew either. Do you think MS didn't tell AM about the owner of the truck being "gone, gone, gone?" Or even DM told him earlier in the week for that matter? I think AM knew exactly how serious this was and tried to use MH to get the evidence to MS.

And MH, once he heard the news on the car radio about the charges against DM, just pulled the car over into the nearest strip mall and told AM he wasn't going to have any more part in this. What he should have done was pulled right into the nearest police station. But he was probably very angry with AM for getting him involved in this drop off at that point and just wanted the stuff out of his parent's car. And I'll bet he was angry at AM for the lies he likely told to get MH to drive to Oakville in the first place.

MOO

I totally agree. I think when AM told DM to F-off, it was not just because he said he was gonna steal a truck, I think DM told him more of his plan. AM never told him to F-Off over stealing the bobcat or the trees or whatever other "missions" they might have went on. it was more like "sure, I'm down" So why would he tell him to F-off over just stealing a truck, he knew DM did not really need to be out stealing anything and that it was more of the thrill. I agree he knew much much more, and no he is not charged and has been cleared. But he was arrested, and was not forthright until after that. i do not believe they arrested him for 1st Degree murder just to make him talk. They was lots of other threats or even lesser charges they could have "arrested" him for. My issue is once any of these friends knew a man was missing, they should have been immediately forthcoming, even if they asked to have a lawyer present to protect their rights regarding their participation in previous "missions" it is one thing to lie and protect your buddy over a stolen vehicle, another thing to keep up the charade when you find out Tim is missing.

 

[redheart]

I was wondering why it seems that Dubien is no longer on the witness list. I believe you are correct in your assumption. I am confused however, if the Crown believed they had worthwhile reason/testimony to put him on the stand, wouldn't that be based on his police statement from the time?... and if when the time came to actually testify, his information became different/useless for the Crown's case when it had previously been deemed useful, then wouldn't a person be charged with perjury or something?

Maybe the info the Crown wanted from Dubien was so minor that they didn't feel it was worth putting him on the stand and giving him the chance to throw something out there favourable to the defense.

 

[SnooperDuper]

DO you really think AM and MH deserve to be charged with trafficking in drugs and weapons for handing over the goods to MS? General question.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Maybe the info the Crown wanted from Dubien was so minor that they didn't feel it was worth putting him on the stand and giving him the chance to throw something out there favourable to the defense.

Well they had their own expert, Plaxton, that could testify to the same things CD could. Plaxton testified that the one camera had been moved a week before. I don't know what else CD could add to that.

 

[billandrew]

DO you really think AM and MH deserve to be charged with trafficking in drugs and weapons for handing over the goods to MS? General question.

Trafficking? No. Obstructing justice? Probably.

 

[Alethea Dice]

<rsbm>

AM worked at Campbell Soup which iirc is round the clock shift work. FWIW, I know they used to have televisions in the cafeteria, so probably still do.

But I thought he said he worked 7:00 to 4:00 at one point. And didn't he say he was at Maple Gate when LE showed up on the Saturday morning (the 11th) and they told him to leave? MS started texting him to get the drugs out on Friday night and IIRC, he texted around midnight and said it was done. He put them in his car and parked it across the street. On the Saturday (the 11th) he was texting back and forth with MS and delivering the drop off. He was back around 4:00 and later the same day gave MB and CN the dog. DM's arrest was announced on the 11th. What time was the press conference? When did he work?

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes 23h23 hours ago
At 12:29am he texts Meneses "I got it." Message was for Smich, he says. Meant he got the drugs (from Millard's house).

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes 23h23 hours ago
There are calls from him to Meneses phone (Smich) at 11:12am and 1:54pm. Michalski says these were about the drop.

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes 23h23 hours ago
More texts from Meneses phone (Smich).
At 2:22pm: "Tell him were its at and ask him to bring it to me with the other thing."

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes 23h23 hours ago
At 4:05pm, he gets a text from Smich: "was there a truck back there?" "And how far away is it"

 

[sab_bri]

I totally agree. I think when AM told DM to F-off, it was not just because he said he was gonna steal a truck, I think DM told him more of his plan. AM never told him to F-Off over stealing the bobcat or the trees or whatever other "missions" they might have went on. it was more like "sure, I'm down" So why would he tell him to F-off over just stealing a truck, he knew DM did not really need to be out stealing anything and that it was more of the thrill. I agree he knew much much more, and no he is not charged and has been cleared. But he was arrested, and was not forthright until after that. i do not believe they arrested him for 1st Degree murder just to make him talk. They was lots of other threats or even lesser charges they could have "arrested" him for. My issue is once any of these friends knew a man was missing, they should have been immediately forthcoming, even if they asked to have a lawyer present to protect their rights regarding their participation in previous "missions" it is one thing to lie and protect your buddy over a stolen vehicle, another thing to keep up the charade when you find out Tim is missing.

Maybe he said "F-off" in response to DM mentioning that they were going to murder the owner. MOO! Just me running away with speculation again..

 

[Inspector_North]

In response to:

"The hanger video:
The guy on the right even looks like he has Moobs when I paused in one section. Just before they walk around the corner.
The guy on the right has a weird shaped head in the front. Looks like he has a "duckbill" not a buzz cut.
To me, this guy looks bulkier then MS with bad posture at the neck.
JMO"

There has not been one iota of evidence to even suggest he was not.

SS said it looked like him
MM said he went with DM on the 6th - taken from Opening Statement
MS has admitted the test drive on the 5th
MS's phone pinged he was there that night
AM said MM was looking for him, and DM indicated he dropped him off to her around 8:00

I believe we will hear much more from MM putting him there.

Not sure why a single video from an angle that can deceive physical status (he was directly under) is taking many of us away from the overwhelming evidence he was there. Take a look at Pedo in the video. I bet it would be hard to get his height correct if that was all you were given.

I just don't think DM predicted the force of the Bosma family and friends, and is caught in one of his fantasy missions that turned into a reality nightmare. LE pulled out all the stops over a very long period to collect and present the evidence. I am sure they looked at the video, and came to a different conclusion. MOO

 

[chaines]

Here! This is why AM gets to live rent-free in DM's house for 6 weeks! He supplied the free soup! SMH.

No one ever got anything for free from DM, did they? Usually they had to do something for him. No one rides for free. JMO

I hope this hasn't been addressed already but I don't think AM actually worked as an employee of Campbell's Soup so he would not be on the same shift schedule as their workers. AM was an apprentice plumber at the time and his job site for that day(s) just happened to be Campbell's. Please correct if I am wrong..

 

[SnooperDuper]

I hope this hasn't been addressed already but I don't think AM actually worked as an employee of Campbell's Soup so he would not be on the same shift schedule as their workers. AM was an apprentice plumber at the time and his job site for that day(s) just happened to be Campbell's. Please correct if I am wrong..

molly hayesVerified account &#8207;@mollyhayes Apr 12
Fraser asks if he recalls working at Campbell's soup. Yes. That could've been it, he says. Unsure bc he had multiple job sites. #Bosma

 

[dar107]

Trafficking? No. Obstructing justice? Probably.

I think if they were helpful and 100 percent cooperative and truthful immediately after realizing the seriousness of the crime, they should not have been charged........ i am just not so sure that is what happened.