Bosma Murder Trial 04.13.16 - Day 34

[mozzagirl]

lol Had to reread those tweets a few times. So MB and CN were together fetching DM's dog the day after DM was arrested? First of all, I didn't realize that MB and CN were that close. Wonder if MB asked CN about the trailer that was in her driveway or if CN told MB that she was with DM when they dropped the trailer off. This is all more than interesting. I'm surprised that MB hasn't been charged with obstructing justice. IMHO

Maybe CN said nothing to MB? MB might have been the kind of person to call LE and want to have no part of any charges or involvement. SO CN kept her mouth shut so the trailer could hopefully stay hidden long enough for police to not find it?

MOO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Maybe CN said nothing to MB? MB might have been the kind of person to call LE and want to have no part of any charges or involvement. SO CN kept her mouth shut so the trailer could hopefully stay hidden long enough for police to not find it?

MOO.

DM broke a lamp outside the garage when he parked the trailer, and I bet that was the second thing she noticed after the honking beast itself.

 

[mimimic]

Didn't we hear earlier that the Bobcat theft was October 17th or something? :waitasec:

are we to believe that it was only a little more than half of a year of experience with stealing?

 

[Inspector_North]

I believe MH was a very reluctant witness, and so far AM makes MH look willing. AM has given some very damaging testimony, but has steered clear of his incriminating involvement and complete knowledge of the crime. I suppose that is normal in many cases. The damaging information he did divulge was to save his own butt.

Let's see how TD works AM tomorrow.
MOO

 

[Kamille]

My feeling is that the core criminals, the core group operating on the thefts, was DM, MS and SS.

DM was the ideas guy and he set the tasks and promised reward. While DM was active in the thefts he directed, he needed a hand, and that was MS. Finally, it was extremely important for DM to have a mechanic in his pocket to get rid of pesky GPS trackers and swap VINs: SS.

Without any one of these three, the thefts would not be successful. Each makes a unique contribution.

MH and AM however have no special skills or roles so they are lookouts and patsies who cover for DM when DM leans on their long friendships.

IMO.

Following that train of thought, are we to assume that the Bobcat they stole had the key in it? Because if it did not, who switched out the ignition? And why didn't anyone ask SS about this? :waitasec:

MOO

 

[brightii]

Ok sorry this is kind of bugging me. I thought we aren't allowed to suggest someone as having guilt that hasn't been charged? AM didn't do stuff to avoid charges, he didn't escape any charges. LE said a long time ago that AM was cleared of any involvement in the theft and murder. So how can it still be suggested that he did things that LE has totally cleared him of?

Sorry, but IMO AM and MH did do illegal things, stealing among them, taking drugs, and especially in trying to move the toolbox and bag of drugs related to TB's crime after the fact to assist DM or MS, IMO.

Although neither AM or MH was charged, such activity by both that's now on the public record has been widely discussed here, and not just by me, but many others, IMO. I didn't suggest either murdered TB.

And I do think AM and MH have lots to feel guilty about, and rightly so, IMO. They are/were not totally honest on the stand, IMO, as some more respected, long-standing members here have also expressed. I have no interest in seeing either AM or MH in a better light nor is it up to me to shine one upon them. Their own actions and inaction put them under the glare of scrutiny, and I can't shield them or spare them from the consequences, IMO. They each have their own consciences to reckon with, IMO. I'm good with mine.

All MOO.

 

[Kamille]

Would that be a leading question for the Crown to ask that?

It would be leading for the Crown to suggest that. If they just asked it, not knowing the answer, they probably would have gotten a "no". Which would not help their case.

They would only ask it if AM had already supplied them with the answer "yes".

MOO

 

[billandrew]

Would that be a leading question for the Crown to ask that?

Ah ok, then hopefully Dungey will ask about it!

 

[Kamille]

Maybe CN said nothing to MB? MB might have been the kind of person to call LE and want to have no part of any charges or involvement. SO CN kept her mouth shut so the trailer could hopefully stay hidden long enough for police to not find it?

MOO.

So MB was contacted by someone while she was "out of town" and came back when she heard of DM's arrest to pick up the dog but never went to her home in Kleinburg? But she was hanging in Etobicoke with CN when she returned to town and they were both picking up the dog? Where did they take the dog? :waitasec:

I think there is a reason why MB was staying away from her house. And only she fully knows what it is.

MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

Sorry, but IMO AM and MH did do illegal things, stealing among them, taking drugs, and especially in trying to move the toolbox and bag of drugs related to TB's crime after the fact to assist DM or MS, IMO.

Although neither AM or MH was charged, such activity by both that's now on the public record has been widely discussed here, and not just by me, but many others, IMO. I didn't suggest either murdered TB.

And I do think AM and MH have lots to feel guilty about, and rightly so, IMO. They are/were not totally honest on the stand, IMO, as some more respected, long-standing members here have also expressed. I have no interest in seeing either AM or MH in a better light nor is it up to me to shine one upon them. Their own actions and inaction put them under the glare of scrutiny, and I can't shield them or spare them from the consequences, IMO. They each have their own consciences to reckon with, IMO. I'm good with mine.

All MOO.

It's not illegal to take drugs. DM was giving away his weed and that is still trafficking. However the recipients would face no trouble for consuming the drugs.

 

[Kamille]

are we to believe that it was only a little more than half of a year of experience with stealing?

Well I, for one, do not believe it. :notgood:

MOO

 

[redwing7225]

Following that train of thought, are we to assume that the Bobcat they stole had the key in it? Because if it did not, who switched out the ignition? And why didn't anyone ask SS about this? :waitasec:

MOO

I cant find the image of the track machine that was sitting at DM's place...was it a Bobcat as well?
If DM had a Bobcat prior to the theft...in my past experiences with these machines, the key is universal and would start the Bobcat that was being stolen.

 

[Bsafe]

And protect DM?? Why is anyone's guess.

Wow, the more and more testimony I hear from AM, the more I realize that all these guys are just trying to cover their own asses and point the finger at MS to save themselves MOO

 

[paris_paris]

Michalski says the first criminal thing he did with Millard' happened on Devil's night, Oct. 30. "He was the driving force," Michalski says. The idea was to steal plants from a nursery. "I think we were all drunk and on drugs and wanted to do something fun." They stole trees, Michalski says.
by Adam Carter 3:58 PM

The plants all went to Millard's garden, Michalski says.
by Adam Carter 3:59 PM

The Bobcat theft was the second criminal act he did with Millard, Michalski says.
by Adam Carter 4:00 PM

Dungey asks if Millard was "into any other thieving" in between those incidents. Pillay says he has an issue. The jury is sent out.
by Adam Carter 4:01 PM

Dungey asked if Millard did any other thefts between the incidents. AM wouldn't be able to say for sure because he just said he himself didn't do any thieving in between the plants and the bobcat. I fully expected Pillay to stop that line of questioning.

 

[paris_paris]

And this... just to clear things up.

Dungey also asked about when Michalski and his group of friends first started stealing, and Michalski said it was on "Devil's night," on Oct. 30 in 2011. The group — which included Hagerman and Millard — broke into a nursery and stole plants for Millard's garden.

Millard's lawyer Nadir Sachak spent much of his cross-examination asking about Michalski's involvement in the theft of a Bobcat tractor with Millard and Smich in October 2012.

From here... http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-michalski-day-2-1.3533654

1 full year of thieving (admitted to).

 

[SnooperDuper]

Sounds like AM's arrest and first interview were same day:

Dellen Millard's friend Andrew Michalski was also arrested in connection with the death of Hamilton man Tim Bosma, court heard Wednesday, but he was questioned and subsequently released without charge.

The arrest occurred on May 13, 2013 — just days after Millard was arrested.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-michalski-day-2-1.3533654

 

[HackD]

The minimum age for a pilot's licence in Canada is 17. He did not have a licence when he did those two solo flights. He had a student pilot permit.

Did he continue on to receive a license to fly either a helicoptor or airplane? We've heard nothing about him flying again or continuing his lessons after those 2 solo flights. Except for the couple of flights he took with AM. Which he may have done unlicensed?

Private Pilot Licence Requirements

Student Pilot Permit Age 14 (for solo flight), PPL Application Age 17
Valid Category 1 or 3 Medical Certificate (through CAME)
45 hours of Ground School
Successfully complete (60%) Transport Canada Private Pilot Written Exam
25 Hrs Dual Flight Training Minimum
20 Hrs Solo Flight Training Minimum
Successfully complete Private Pilot Flight Test
Instrument & Navigation Training

https://www.bramptonflightcentre.co...s-endorsements-ratings/private-pilot-licence/

MOO

"DM solo'd / qualified for both his Fixed-Wing and Helicopter's licence at age 14, on his birthday."

This is why i phrased it as such. He certainly did later go through the formalities required of such documents when he turned 'of age'.

The question of age at the time of solo, is more of a matter of legal formality. He had the skill-set to solo at age 14.. which meant that he merely needed to meet all the other standards related to a private aviation licence. Born into an aviation-oriented family.. this was a right of passage, a Coming of Age, just as much as the Bar Mitzvah is, to a Jew.

There is plenty of citations available on google, to point that he held multiple aviation licences.

His life, and mine, have many eerie parallels. My Sunday afternoon "baseball game with dad" was chasing the $50.00 cheeseburger across Ontario to many, many airport greasy spoons. The only difference really between me and DM, is a potential career in aviation was destroyed by bad eye-sight, not a moral compass spun adrift, or not there to begin with. I don't know whether the standards have changed since DM solo'd 18 years ago.. i haven't kept up with that information since the eye-test spelled out "HA-HA, you lose!" about 30 years ago around my 16th birthday, and more than a few hours of ground-school in air-cadets... I do know that my late father got his pilots licence, at age 16, in '65. 2 years before he got a drivers licence.

Respectfully, and FWIW.

 

[brightii]

It's not illegal to take drugs. DM was giving away his weed and that is still trafficking. However the recipients would face no trouble for consuming the drugs.

Well, for whatever the real reason is, AM admittedly moved a whole back pack full of drugs, and MH said he thought the toolbox he was in possession of and willing to move was full of illicit drugs, and had either been caught in the act, you bet your bottom dollar they would have been charged with a drug offense, IMO.

<modsnip>

All MOO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Well, for whatever the real reason is, AM admittedly moved a whole back pack full of drugs, and MH said he thought the toolbox he was in possession of and willing to move was full of illicit drugs, and had either been caught in the act, you bet your bottom dollar they would have been charged with a drug offense, IMO.

<modsnip>

All MOO.

All they'd have to do is say to LE is these are DM's drugs, go catch the big guy.

 

[mimimic]

There post actions say that the location of the murder (inside the truck) was unplanned. DM had to keep the guys away on the 7th, with an emergency text early in the morning. But we have heard evidence of preparing the Eliminator prior to the test drive, with the question to SS about the state of the generator.

You are saying it was an armed robbery that went wrong. I am saying it was a planned theft and murder, with the murder not going as planned. Big difference. MOO

i left this quote but had to come back think this is true and so totally f*d up!! sorry