Bosma Murder Trial 04.25.16 - Day 39

[Tealgrove]

Totally in agreement here. IIRC when DM and MS were on the way to pick her up a text from MS sharply said be ready in 5 min or they were leaving. I'm sure that MM had already thought she had pushed enough of MS buttons and would just be quiet.

When I initially viewed the CCTV footage of MM in the elevator I got the feeling she was stressed. Her body language just seemed to suggest that she was worried, and maybe even a little scared. It was almost as if she knew (or didn't know) what she was walking into when she got out to the vehicle. MOO

 

[matou]

[h=1]Tim Bosma Murder Trial: Marlena Meneses, Smich’s girlfriend — Day 2 | EXHIBIT #152, #153 and #154[/h]

[video=youtube;5idLgQ87ZWY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5idLgQ87ZWY&list=UUnsj4TU7mOQ-4l2HOaRekgA&index=1[/video]

 

[hellkat2]

The crown must love these two defendant cases. Both of these lawyers are taking turns trying to make the other look more guilty and solidifies the crown's case. I also doubt the Crown would have been allowed to bring up the abuse aspect of the MS/MM relationship since its not relevant to the crime but since its part of DM's defense, it was allowed.

Very astute observation. I agree in full.

 

[hellkat2]

I am being as fair as anyone, Inspector_North. We are all pulling at the spider-web. The best way to sleuth with objectivity, is to step outside the box.

You forget, Sachek used the term: 'Horrific'. Not Meneses. Meneses has to decide in the moment to agree or disagree.
So every question, for every witness, they have to decide if it leans enough towards the truth, or more towards an untruth, even if they don`t like the language or the phrasing.
BD used the terms 'intimidating' and that Mark made him(BD) nervous.
Arthur has been described as ' Marks *itch'.

If it was just her,..I would question it more. I would be hard-pressed to believe her, actually.
Since we have at least 2 other people, pointing out that he is at the LEAST, a bully (which is a type of abuser) plus a murder charge, I think it`s safe to say he might of used some type of abuse to push her into things.
I also look at his own words via texts. Except for Dellen, everyone is a means to an end, for this guy.

When we have a lot of people hiding things, the only way we can begin to thread the truth, is to line up the consistencies. Everything else is unnecessary drama and bias. In my opinion, I see a consistant pattern of a guy who bullies and loves to use people.

The truth is never wrong.

 

[Lochlynsmom]

When proof is not available, probability that it occurred trumps. And that is not a good thing for MM. MOO

And yet you require proof that she was abused?

 

[hellkat2]

I agree, but think it is a very low blow to SB.....she will not have another baby with her hubby and here the delinquent that murdered her hubby may have just reproduced.....WHY is this apart of the murder trial????? I wish lawyers just had an ounce of compassion!!!

I cannot imagine the emotional conflict that the Bosma's must endure listening to MM and other testimony. i was listening to a radio discussion yesterday and they were talking about how a problem in many trials is that testimony that is pure and without any doubt sometimes cannot even get to the table. I am telling myself that these lawyers are building a case and the direction they are taking will bring MS and DM to a cell for life. That is all the Bosma's can hope for. And then you need to define what life means in Canada.

 

[hellkat2]

If you are saying the fact that he called her his b---h in front of friends amounts to abuse, I disagree. When you consider that these people were all willingly living the gangsta lifestyle and using the gangsta lingo, that word isn't as defamatory as it sounds. People in that lifestyle commonly refer to their woman as their b---hes, it just means girlfriend from what I understand. It's kind of like when one of these guys calls another their ni--er. It's not an insult or racist, it means friend.

I'm sorry people, what I see is a streetwise punk doing her best to minimize her participation and possibly lying to justify the fact that she did nothing to stop this.

Consider her testimony that she begged Smich not to go, then ask yourself how many missions he'd been on and how many of those shed tried to talk him out of. The reason is obvious, at the very least she knew Smich was going to use his gun to acquire that truck. It's just as possible that she knew the full extent of the plan.

So let's ignore the fact that this girl comes wrapped in the guise of a sugary sweet high school girl shall we? The truth is that when she was fully aware of her bf's cold blooded murder of TB, she was more interested in getting her hands on that pound of weed, and "what else?" She was there for the planning, she was there for the coverup, and she was obviously ready to share in the spoils of the crime, so why isn't she facing charges?

I have had exactly the same thoughts. To me she is not even thinly veiled.

 

[Ontario Mom]

So just curious, for all of us really looking forward to what MM would say once she was on the stand, is she saying what you hoped she would?

I don't know why, really, but I had a feeling she was going to be more defensive than others suspected she might be.

 

[Inspector_North]

And yet you require proof that she was abused?

I will reserve my judgement of MM's sincerity for later. However, my comment was about proving a witnesses claim that impacts credibility, which I now understand is not allowed when it's a claim of abuse. We can question JV being exploited and used by DM. We can question and talk about MS using Bleach as his b*$%c, and even have laugh over it. We can criticize MH for being a baby on the stand. We can discuss the family crisis that SS and AJ are going though, and still be very hard on our judgment of SS.

I am learning the rules.

 

[andreww]

So just curious, for all of us really looking forward to what MM would say once she was on the stand, is she saying what you hoped she would?

I don't know why, really, but I had a feeling she was going to be more defensive than others suspected she might be.

Very disappointed. I think she could have said how the plan was to use the guns, or even that the plan was to kill Bosma. The fact that she says it was all she and Smich talked about yet she can't say more than she knew he was going to steal a truck, Dell did it all, and that he buried the gun in the woods, tells me there were a lot of uncomfortable silences in those conversations, or that she is holding back big time.

 

[Inspector_North]

Very disappointed. I think she could have said how the plan was to use the guns, or even that the plan was to kill Bosma. The fact that she says it was all she and Smich talked about yet she can't say more than she knew he was going to steal a truck, Dell did it all, and that he buried the gun in the woods, tells me there were a lot of uncomfortable silences in those conversations, or that she is holding back big time.

We know that most of this Motley Crew have hidden much of what they actually know. We can only hope in the end when it's time for closing arguments, that there is enough to put both these guys away for premeditated. At this point we know neither will be making an album at Riverside for many years. Let's hope it's never. MOO

 

[Lochlynsmom]

I agree. At first I wondered why the Crown even bothered calling MM as a witness. But by doing so, they allow the defense to just go ahead and make the case for them. Turns out that, in spite of what she wanted desperately to believe about MS, her testimony is probably going to do more against him than any of the other witnesses. JMO

I was thinking about this last night. How would it look if the prosecution didn't call her? She had been mentioned numerous times by other witnesses, she was on video and she was there when MS was arrested. Her credibility maybe questioned with some jurors because of inconsistencies but no worse than the other cast of characters. She did not hurt the prosecutions case imo as what facts of hers changed? Words maybe...timelines? Does it really matter to the prosecution when she found out DM was arrested? To sleuthers here it does but to the case no.

 

[andreww]

And yet you require proof that she was abused?

When a person tells you ten things, one of them being that they were abused, and six of those things end up being lies, yes proof is required.

 

[Lochlynsmom]

What this tells me is that she at least knew they were stealing a truck from an actual person--or maybe thought they got caught in the act by a homeowner.

Or, heck, I'm naturally an alarmist person, so I easily go to worst-case scenario when someone is unreachable.

Or imo it was because she couldn't reach him. If he had just been arrested she would have been contacted by him or whoever he called. She freaked because there was no contact and I imagine that was unusual.

 

[Ontario Mom]

When a person tells you ten things, one of them being that they were abused, and six of those things end up being lies, yes proof is required.

I'm not even sure why this is an issue here. MM didn't mention she was abused, DM's defense did and she responded in the affirmative. I can only guess that was brought up to show that MS is an abusive creep and entirely capable of hurting someone to get what he wants. Taking the spotlight off of DM for a moment and causing the jury to think the worst of MS.

But really, it all seems like smoke and mirrors to me. The defense really has nothing except pointing fingers at each other's client because they both know they're both guilty. Now it's just a matter of which side can make the other side look more like a vile monster. To me, they both do.

moo.

 

[DeepWoodsOff]

Has MM been convicted yet? Hard for me to tell because my pages are filled with "The message is hidden because..."

MM's testimony was never going to be the smoking gun that a lot of people were expecting, and frankly, it doesn't need to be. She corroborated some very key points that have already been introduced. If this testimony was all that the Crown had then this case never would have made it to trial. But as support for testimony and evidence that has already been introduced, it is absolute gold. MOO

 

[DeepWoodsOff]

I'm not even sure why this is an issue here. MM didn't mention she was abused, DM's defense did and she responded in the affirmative. I can only guess that was brought up to show that MS is an abusive creep and entirely capable of hurting someone to get what he wants. Taking the spotlight off of DM for a moment and causing the jury to think the worst of MS.

But really, it all seems like smoke and mirrors to me. The defense really has nothing except pointing fingers at each other's client because they both know they're both guilty. Now it's just a matter of which side can make the other side look more like a vile monster. To me, they both do.

moo.

Amazing eh? She is being hammered regarding the abuse piece and she wasn't even the one who brought it up. And if I was a betting man, I'd think she would have preferred if that part of her life wasn't broadcast. MOO

 

[dar107]

So just curious, for all of us really looking forward to what MM would say once she was on the stand, is she saying what you hoped she would?

I don't know why, really, but I had a feeling she was going to be more defensive than others suspected she might be.

I think maybe I thought she would know more, have more information of what went down from convo's with MS after DM was arrested. But she did bring some damning evidence to the table. She may have some inconsistency, some half truths being twisted around, caught in a few lies. But i feel more that the lies are more fear, confusion, stress and the fact she was not 100 percent truthful when first talking to police making her second guess certain events...then outright lying on the stand to protect MS.

I would love to know how many women here think being called a man's b**** equals being called his girl or "friend" It is not OK in any situation. Girls that allow this tend to be victims with low self esteem. Whether or not it's the gangster lingo....it is absolutley derogatory, abusive, made to make a female feel worthless and like a piece of mans property. Disgusting talk, more the talk of an abuser then a "gangster"!!

 

[dar107]

Serious questions.

Is it also normal for someone abused like that to tell AM, DM and MS that stealing a truck was a stupid idea?
And also claimed to tell MS several times that selling the gun was a stupid idea?

Or text texts her abuser with the following tone?

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 3m3 minutes ago
"Liz is getting pick up at 9," Meneses writes. "Coming from where" "Holy S through (sic) you die or something. I was going f'ing crazy!"

I am not trying to be insensitive and I apologize if my requesting proof of abuse was way out of line. Have no experience in this area, and I heard from one poster that just asking to relive it was considered re victimizing.

Just very confused about her actions and claimed intent of actions.

MOO

There is no "normal" when it comes to abusive relationships. Every situation is different. And just because a woman is being abused, does not automatically mean she zips her lips and keeps her mouth shut about everything 100 percent of the time. An abuser loves it when she does "talk back", that way he (or she) feels they have a reason and can turn the blame on the victim..."if you would just keep your mouth shut, I would not get so mad!!"

 

[MorningStar22]

Has MM been convicted yet? Hard for me to tell because my pages are filled with "The message is hidden because..."

MM's testimony was never going to be the smoking gun that a lot of people were expecting, and frankly, it doesn't need to be. She corroborated some very key points that have already been introduced. If this testimony was all that the Crown had then this case never would have made it to trial. But as support for testimony and evidence that has already been introduced, it is absolute gold. MOO

Agreed 1,000%! She has tied together many loose ends from others' testimony and text messages, and clarified a few uncertainties (ID'ing MS in the photo with the gun, for example). It was def a "scroll and roll" kind of afternoon yesterday! Let's see what today brings.