Bosma Murder Trial 05.02.16 - Day 43

[andreww]

Quote Originally Posted by Massasauga Rattler View Post
I should also mention that if he killed LB because she was pregnant and refused an abortion, it makes his $20k spent on Eliminator and trailer, money well spent compared to what 20 years of child support would have cost him, as well as having an unwanted heir to the Millard fortune. That $20k becomes a no-brainer decision for a guy like DM.

I honestly think Millard's plan in life was simply to dispose of anybody that inconvenienced him. I also think that LB likely did nothing seal her fate but be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think at that point in time Millard simply wanted to try out his new toy, and who better than a homeless girl who had already alienated her family and friends? Millard likely lured her with drugs, killed her (hopefully) and "eliminated" any trace of her in his incinerator. I think we are all very lucky LE got this guy when they did.

 

[don_quixote]

Good question. According to a few posting here, I have been told that participating in a planned theft that resulted in an accidental death is not murder one under Canadian law. The proof of abduction, or the definition of abduction as it relates to this case has not been clearly defined IMO. DM seemed to agree with your definition, and I have been told it's not correct. So, please prove me wrong.

The Judge will instruct the Jury when the time comes. We discussed that angle on this page.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306508-Bosma-Murder-Trial-Weekend-Discussion-12/page28

MOO

check this link. https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Law/Offences/Kidnapping_and_Unlawful_Confinement#cite_note-5

asd

A person who voluntarily enters into a car, but is then denied the ability to leave will usually make out the offence.[SUP][4][/SUP]

They claim it's supported by case law. They quote R v. Tremblay.It's mostly in French, but the point is that a woman had to jump out of a car as it was moving and the judge said that she was held against the will, it doesn't matter for how long. Hard to imagine that Tim Bosma chose to stay in the truck when DM's and MS's intentions became apparent.

 

[Inspector_North]

Aside from the abduction angle, I think there is also adequate evidence that there was a plan to kill Bosma and incinerate him. The need for a change of clothes, the fact that a successful mission was an "all nighter", and the texts of the sausages and fireside furniture all point to the fact that both these guys knew what was going to happen. If this was not a planned murder, they would have forced Tim out of the truck and the mission would have been completed by 11:00. What possible explanation would there be for the mission taking all night if it just involved the theft of the truck?

I agree, but you mixed a little bit of evidence on DM with MS. Did MS mention an all nighter? Did DM text MS that it would be an all nighter? The other points you make are very valid if they can't be spun to mean something else.

Why did they shoot Tim in the truck? That may be a the accidental angle. Hopefully they cannot spin it that way.
MOO

 

[Inspector_North]

check this link. https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Law/Offences/Kidnapping_and_Unlawful_Confinement#cite_note-5

asd


They claim it's supported by case law. They quote R v. Tremblay.It's mostly in French, but the point is that a woman had to jump out of a car as it was moving and the judge said that she was held against the will, it doesn't matter for how long. Hard to imagine that Tim Bosma chose to stay in the truck when DM's and MS's intentions became apparent.

Hopefully you are correct. I expect the judge to provide guidance to the Jury around the interpretation of the law as it related to this case and first degree.
MOO

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 5m5 minutes ago
"Maybe smich told Kodiak I was not there. That smich had gone w two of his BOYZ, and something and happened." @AM900CHML

Rather a long way to bike or skate board, DM.

I wasn't able to follow yesterday and trying to catch up now. Sorry if all this was already mentioned.

Had a chuckle at this! Almost sounds like DM is trying to pin this on MS and the MWJ gang. Who else would DM be referring to that are "known to have guns"? Daly? Lol
I wonder if DM threw MWJ under the bus and it backfired on him as well. If he did, DM better cover his butt in the pen lol

I also do not believe CN didn't reach out to AM and MH. DM commends AM for his 4th statement of "I don't know" and "I don't remember" and said "he loved him for that"! He felt AM was turning to his side.

One voice call? I'm doubting that as well. CN and MB were pretty close after DMs arrest. Can't tell me she wasn't at MB'S for other phone calls! I find the payphone call quite funny! He just sang to her? OK then lol
I'm not one that is into music, but sound like maybe DM was trying to use song lyrics as hidden messages for CN.

With the letters presented I'm also questioning if the drugs and toolbox went down as MH and AM testified to. IMO, that was a rouse between those two in favor of DM. I also am now believing that Daly was also approached by someone. His testimony was all over the board as well. Money can talk to someone that doesn't have it.
Besides, CN was still in love with DM and believed he was innocent. I'm sure she'd do anything to get him outta the clink!

As for DM wanting CN's phone records. IMO, this was to create an alibi and back up his rediculous theory of MS having the phone.

Either CN was writing to DM what people on the internet were saying or DM had access to it. Weird how some sleuthers and FB people's wild theories got into those letters. Lol, I don't think DM was smart enough to come up with those rediculous theories on his own!

All MOO and JMO

 

[don_quixote]

Hopefully you are correct. I expect the judge to provide guidance to the Jury around the interpretation of the law as it related to this case and first degree.
MOO

Hopefully... But makes sense to claim both confinement and premeditation

 

[don_quixote]

[h=6]Contracted murder[/h](3) Without limiting the generality of subsection (2), murder is planned and deliberate when it is committed pursuant to an arrangement under which money or anything of value passes or is intended to pass from one person to another, or is promised by one person to another, as consideration for that other’s causing or assisting in causing the death of anyone or counselling another person to do any act causing or assisting in causing that death.

E

Gets really interesting. All the money passing back and forth, DM payiing for "missions", was it MM who testified that MS was expecting to be paid?

 

[RandomName479]

I am just jumping in here......seems that we have decided that "orange guy" refers to oxycontin.....the only oxycontin that could be possibly described as orange is the 60mg tablet. It is an uncommonly prescribed dosage.....normally 10,20,40 and 80 are used. I'm not saying this couldn't be what "orange guy" refers to......but generally on the streets the 80mg tablet (which is green) is much more common. In Canada in 2012 Oxycontin was been replaced by Oxyneo which cannot be crushed and therefore has less abuse potential (there are still some generic companies that produce the "oxycontin" type....but much harder to get). This "orange guy" just isn't sitting right with me.....and I'm not sure we have it figured out that it's oxycontin....I could be wrong and they just had a stash of a really uncommon dosage.....MOO

 

[MsSherlock]

I wasn't able to follow yesterday and trying to catch up now. Sorry if all this was already mentioned.

Had a chuckle at this! Almost sounds like DM is trying to pin this on MS and the MWJ gang. Who else would DM be referring to that are "known to have guns"? Daly? Lol
I wonder if DM threw MWJ under the bus and it backfired on him as well. If he did, DM better cover his butt in the pen lol

I also do not believe CN didn't reach out to AM and MH. DM commends AM for his 4th statement of "I don't know" and "I don't remember" and said "he loved him for that"! He felt AM was turning to his side.

One voice call? I'm doubting that as well. CN and MB were pretty close after DMs arrest. Can't tell me she wasn't at MB'S for other phone calls! I find the payphone call quite funny! He just sang to her? OK then lol
I'm not one that is into music, but sound like maybe DM was trying to use song lyrics as hidden messages for CN.

With the letters presented I'm also questioning if the drugs and toolbox went down as MH and AM testified to. IMO, that was a rouse between those two in favor of DM. I also am now believing that Daly was also approached by someone. His testimony was all over the board as well. Money can talk to someone that doesn't have it.
Besides, CN was still in love with DM and believed he was innocent. I'm sure she'd do anything to get him outta the clink!

As for DM wanting CN's phone records. IMO, this was to create an alibi and back up his rediculous theory of MS having the phone.

Either CN was writing to DM what people on the internet were saying or DM had access to it. Weird how some sleuthers and FB people's wild theories got into those letters. Lol, I don't think DM was smart enough to come up with those rediculous theories on his own!

All MOO and JMO

BBM I think you've got it right about MWJ and his pals. CN was arrested in April/14 and LE came in to possession of the "letters". At the same time LE laid gun trafficking charges against the 3 Matthews for the sale of the gun that DM used to kill WM and charges against DM for LB & WM's death and another charge against MS for the murder of LB were laid. MS was charged with breaching a recognizance order between April 10/14 & July 31/14. Coincidence? IMHO, LE had come into a lot of new evidence when they arrested CN. IMHO, DM has burned a lot of bridges and hanging out in the child molester wing of the jail may be the least of his worries. MOO

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ce-brings-tim-bosma-s-wife-to-tears-1.2606566

April/13 "According to the Hamilton Spectator, police believe Mr. Ward-Jackson, Matthew Odlum and Matthew Jackson Wawrykiewicz, sold Dellen Millard the gun he allegedly used to kill his father."

http://news.nationalpost.com/toront...-accused-of-selling-him-alleged-murder-weapon

"Then last month, Mr. Millard, 28, and his friend Mark Smich, 26, were charged with first-degree murder in relation to Ms. Babcock’s death."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/what-if-game-haunts-babcock-friend/article18832997/

 

[RandomName479]

I honestly think Millard's plan in life was simply to dispose of anybody that inconvenienced him. I also think that LB likely did nothing seal her fate but be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think at that point in time Millard simply wanted to try out his new toy, and who better than a homeless girl who had already alienated her family and friends? Millard likely lured her with drugs, killed her (hopefully) and "eliminated" any trace of her in his incinerator. I think we are all very lucky LE got this guy when they did.

BBM - the issue with this theory is LB went missing BEFORE DM bought the incinerator......so he didn't have his "new toy" at the time of her disappearance.....IMO he bought the incinerator specifically to dispose of her body.....MOO

 

[londongal]

I'm actually feeling sorry for DM. He is so detached. When he called TB "the dead guy" it showed just how detached he is. When he was first arrested, I too wanted to believe he was innocent. Why? Because he seemed handsome to me. That's the problem, we think killers should look a certain way. IMO

I agree with you to an extent but then I remembered Ted Bundy!!

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

 

[Inspector_North]

Last I heard, MWJ was still in jail, but that was Oct 2015. That other charges related to weapons and drugs were dropped, but he was being held on charges related to selling weapons to DM. Can anyone point me to something recent as to where MWJ is? Is he free?

MOO

 

[mozzagirl]

Last I heard, MWJ was still in jail, but that was Oct 2015. That other charges related to weapons and drugs were dropped, but he was being held on charges related to selling weapons to DM. Can anyone point me to something recent as to where MWJ is? Is he free?

MOO

I believe he is doing 10 years. There might be a pub ban because it is hard to find info but someone on his instagram made a comment about how they can't believe he is in jail for 10 years.

 

[Inspector_North]

I believe he is doing 10 years. There might be a pub ban because it is hard to find info but someone on his instagram made a comment about how they can't believe he is in jail for 10 years.

Thanks. Because if he is in jail for an extended period, and it's related to his dealings with DM, DM has much more to worry about.
MOO

 

[EspressoBean]

BBM - the issue with this theory is LB went missing BEFORE DM bought the incinerator......so he didn't have his "new toy" at the time of her disappearance.....IMO he bought the incinerator specifically to dispose of her body.....MOO

The incinerator was purchased and ordered before LB went missing. It was not delivered until after her disappearance. I believe it was ordered for this purpose but it was pre-planned.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 5m5 minutes ago
#Bosma trial starting with legal arguments. Jury & Christina Noudga due 11am for cross examination

 

[Errrr]

I am curious to know why MS faces additional charges for communicating with MM, when it seems to me (I may have missed a bit) that nothing was really mentioned about this during MM's testimony, but yet allllllllll of this proof of same has been entered into evidence in this trial, and yet no similar charges were brought against DM and/or CN?

If they had charged her or them, would this diamond encrusted evidence get tied up in another trial or would it remain easily available for this trial?

 

[meterclicks]

Back at the courthouse today, where Christina Noudga's cross-examination is set to begin today. Follow along for updates all day.
by Adam Carter 9:04 AM


We'll be in legal arguments this morning, but I'll let everyone know when the jury is in and Noudga's cross-examination begins. Currently it's scheduled for 11 a.m.
by Adam Carter 9:54 AM

View attachment 93670
Here's Christina Noudga (left) leaving court yesterday.
by Adam Carter 9:56 AM

In case you missed it, you can read all of Dellen Millard's letters from jail here:
View attachment 93671
Girlfriend of accused killer tells Bosma trial she felt like she was being 'played'
After months of receiving secret letters sent to her from jail, Dellen Millard's girlfriend started to feel she was being played by her incarcerated lover, court heard Monday at the trial of two men accused of killing Hamilton man Tim Bosma.
by Adam Carter 9:57 AM

 

[Inspector_North]

Just one more thought on MS and the planned mission. MM and MS were known to be attached at the hip, and MM testified that DM picked MS up on the 6th for the mission. We have seen plenty of evidence that DM was planning an all nighter. But from MM's testimony she was not expecting MS to be gone that long, as her texts to AM indicate. So either MS didn't tell her or he was not planning an extended mission like DM did if successful?

Just looking at possible TD strategy. And yes there is much evidence that can me used to nail MS on first, but just looking at the premeditated angle. Sausage, frying pan and furniture seem to be the most damanging for MS.
MOO

 

[MsSherlock]

DM actually had the world by the tail prior to murdering TB. That's what makes me think he's an out of control psychopath. Even though he had murdered WM and LB, by all accounts he had gotten away with it. All DM and MB had to do was stick handle thru the financial issues created when a person like WM dies unexpectedly. Most normal people would have embarked on a restructuring plan that wouldn't have included a knee jerk shut down. Not to say that a shut down wasn't imminent; it just wouldn't have happened a couple days after the principal's death.

IMHO, after everything was restructured there would have still been millions of dollars left over; more than enough for a young person like DM to launch the rest of his life off of. When I read about his plans to travel the world on a sail boat, renting cars at destinations, exploring the continents, I get a picture of a person who feels entitled to live the life of a multi millionaire on a millionaires budget. He also has a full time construction "crew" and a full time mechanic. IMO, he also says in his letters that he wanted to "take a couple of years off of work", leading me to believe that he really didn't know what work was either. For some reason, DM felt he needed to go to Baja in 2013. The point is, he could have borrowed a bit more money from MB if it was truly all about a cash flow problem and he needed a new truck. IMHO, DM, like so many other murderous psychopaths, was being fuelled solely by the need to kill. All of the financial issues around the business may have been a catalyst, but the need wasn't theft, IMHO it was the need to kill someone- the truck was just the bonus. MOO