Bosma Murder Trial 05.09.16 - Day 46

[MrsThreadgoode]

So good he has no actual defense lined up? I wouldn't want him representing me if I was DM. Not sure what he's actually done for him thus far. I am however thankful for that. Hopefully that means justice for Tim. JMO

IMO! PIllay had to deal with the cards he was dealt ... With the mountain of evidence that has been presented against DM, I am not certain what else he could have done.

PIllay's closing should be interesting.

 

[Kamille]

If he had told them the "truth" the police would have known what to charge him with then. Why didn't he?

He may have told them his version of the "truth" but perhaps with the evidence that was piling in they did not believe him.

We also can't forget that there are stipulations in the criminal code that make them both equally guilty of first degree murder if certain criteria are met.

MOO

 

[Alethea Dice]

I don't think I have been judging Pillay since I thought DM was guilty of murder right from the first few days of evidence: cell phone/burner phone/tattoo/leaving the truck in plain sight evidence. Everything else (that he may or may not have asked) just seemed to fade to less importance to me.

rsbm

I think that may be a lot of what's happened here. Between that and how Pillay isn't as harsh and dramatic as Dungey, many may have missed the things that he did bring out, or deemed them less important.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

RSBM
Maybe DP was petrified of losing the case?? (groan, sorry)

DP and his business partner had 5 Maplegate as their initial petrified wood business address. Makes me wonder if DM and mommy rabbit used the house to pay initial legal bills.

IIRC, didn't his business partner buy the house on Maplegate?

 

[Alethea Dice]

SC has written a great article that outlines the upcoming end of trial process in detail

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6546273-clairmont-the-end-of-the-bosma-trial-is-in-sight/

So that article still says that DM's team does it's closing address first, then MS's, then the Crown. Which is not what was stated in the earlier trial procedure links that stated the order depends on whether the accused's defense presents evidence. I wonder which is correct?

 

[Errrr]

He may have told them his version of the "truth" but perhaps with the evidence that was piling in they did not believe him.

We also can't forget that there are stipulations in the criminal code that make them both equally guilty of first degree murder if certain criteria are met.

MOO

I agree. I wouldn't believe him either.

 

[swedie]

He may have told them his version of the "truth" but perhaps with the evidence that was piling in they did not believe him.

We also can't forget that there are stipulations in the criminal code that make them both equally guilty of first degree murder if certain criteria are met.

MOO

I agree Kamille. IMO LE were going for the maximum allowable sentence with both DM and MS according to the law. Both can be found guilty of first degree murder but it will be interesting to hear what other options the judge puts on the table for each of the accused. Then again, the judge will most likely throw second degree and manslaughter on the table for both also to save a ridiculous excuse for an appeal. Same sort of idiotic appeal Michael R filed. Another waste of time and money and skin... MOO.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Does anyone have the link to the Industrial park (Bobcat dealership) video with the original sound? All the videos I found have the creepy music replacing original sound.

Hi Inspector North. I wrote to Adrian Humphreys at the National Post to ask him if he was aware of any links to the Bobcat video that had only the original audio in the background, not the music.

He apologized that he didn't, but he did listen to the original and this is what he said about it:

"It is not very enlightening, if that helps at all. An indeterminate boom amidst intolerable static." And that it is the Crown's belief that Tim Bosma was shot before then.

Hope this helps. Will still try to find the original video though ... Will post if I have any luck.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

There is no doubt in my mind that MS was at TB's house, left in the back seat of his truck and then transferred to the Yukon at some point. All with the premeditated idea to steal that truck. Then he followed DM driving TB's truck around the region, in the Yukon, to the farm, to the hangar and was eventually seen on camera in the hangar. And he was with DM that entire evening while TB was being incinerated outside the door of the hangar until DM dropped him off the next morning.

There is plenty of evidence that MS was there that night.

I think what people are questioning is whether he was actually in the truck when TB was shot and if he was the actual shooter. Basically, if DM shot TB in his truck while MS was driving the Yukon, is he also guilty of first degree murder? If he was in the truck but not the shooter, is he also guilty of first degree murder?

MOO

To the questions in your latter paragraph, IMHO, yes, I do believe that they are both guilty of first degree murder, because this was a "mission" they planned together.

 

[swedie]

Hi Inspector North. I wrote to Adrian Humphreys at the National Post to ask him if he was aware of any links to the Bobcat video that had only the original audio in the background, not the music.

He apologized that he didn't, but he did listen to the original and this is what he said about it:

"It is not very enlightening, if that helps at all. An indeterminate boom amidst intolerable static." And that it is the Crown's belief that Tim Bosma was shot before then.

Hope this helps. Will still try to find the original video though ... Will post if I have any luck.

IIRC one of the reporters who tweeted that day said that they (reporters) made a mutual decision they were not going to release video with sound to the public out of respect for the Bosma family. MOO.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I don't believe that Dungey will have the last word as far as his closing arguments to the jury ... It is my understanding, please correct me if I am wrong, that Pillay gets the final close, just before the Judge's instructions, because he didn't present a defence?

I was incorrect in what I said above ... Sorry about that!

The wonderful Susan Clairmont included this information in her column tonight:


"Once Smich's team is finished calling evidence, the first stage of a "bifurcated" pre-charge conference will take place on the record in the jury's absence. Justice Andrew Goodman will get input from all lawyers as he prepares his critical charge to the jury.

Each legal team will then present its closing address to the jury, beginning with Millard's, followed by Smich's counsel, then Leitch for the Crown.

Next is the second stage of the pre-charge conference. Mistakes made in the judge's charge can lay groundwork for an appeal, so great care must be taken. In this case the charge will be long, perhaps two days. Courtroom doors are locked, nobody is allowed in or out except at breaks."

 

[Deleted member 102539]

IMO at this point MS has absolutely nothing to lose by taking the stand in his own defence. Should he not, IMO undoubtedly the jurors will find him guilty of first degree murder. By taking the stand MS could sway the jurors to convict him of second degree or accessory after the fact. If MS can convince the jurors he had no knowledge DM was packing a gun and was not present when TB was shot, that could help him avoid the first degree murder charge against him. Even if MS says he knew DM had a gun on him but believed DM was only going to use it as a threat to force TB from his truck, it could still possibly change the outcome of MS's charge.

This will be a major argument/piece used to try and minimize MS's involvement in TB's murder. TD will use this evidence along with MS's testimony to show MS was not in TB's truck when TB was shot and murdered.

At 9:47 p.m. a set of headlights enters the screen from the left. When they are half way across the screen there is at least one bang. The lights move to the right. A second set of headlights follows behind.

When cross-examining blood pattern expert Sgt. Robert Jones of the Waterloo Regional Police Service, Dungey asked: If the bullet went through Bosma's neck and the window is smashed, could it support the theory that the driver is the shooter?

It was the first time in the trial that it has been suggested Tim was shot in the neck and there has not been any evidence so far to back that up.
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6...-the-latest-terrible-evidence-in-bosma-trial/

IMPO it is a great relief to know we are all in agreement DM is guilty of first degree murder and deserves what is coming to him. That wasn't the case three years ago or even just a couple months ago here on WS. Apparently with all the solid evidence the Crown presented it has left no room for doubt who the manipulator, planner and real psychopath really is. Let's just hope if MS takes the stand he will tell the truth. Unfortunately for the Bosma family I think MS's testimony could cause them unbearable grief if MS does take the stand and tells the truth. MS will give details they might wish they didn't have to hear.

My sincere and heartfelt condolences to TB's loved ones as they go through this very difficult and the final stages of the trial seeking justice for Tim. Stay strong and know justice will be served for TB. ALL MOO.

Had DM tried for the time of ca. 17 min. to make a deal with TB? Did he "show him" how to betray his own insurance if the truck would be left to DM ....?? Just in the manner DM tried to convince CN of doing bad? When TB after ca. 17 min. test drive - now at Bobcat - still didn't agree with him, did DM shoot him because at that time Tim would have known too much: optic of the perps AND DM's intensive manipulating into insurance fraud?

 

[swedie]

Hi Inspector North. I wrote to Adrian Humphreys at the National Post to ask him if he was aware of any links to the Bobcat video that had only the original audio in the background, not the music.

He apologized that he didn't, but he did listen to the original and this is what he said about it:

"It is not very enlightening, if that helps at all. An indeterminate boom amidst intolerable static." And that it is the Crown's belief that Tim Bosma was shot before then.

Hope this helps. Will still try to find the original video though ... Will post if I have any luck.

I don't know how to quote from an old thread but this is what I could find regarding the Bobcat dealership video Mrs.TG. Snooper commented on Day 16, post # 474. AND I do remember reading a tweet from either SC or MH stating reporters have agreed out of respect for the Bosma family, they were either not going to post the video or not include sound with the video. HTH and MOO.

SnooperDuper SnooperDuper is offline
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Join Date May 2013
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sheesh, people have a lot to say about the video of the incinerator being ignited on Twitter this morning. SC/MH/The Spec have decided not to post that particular video online out of respect/by request of the Bosmas and people are debating censorship and ethics.

 

[Sillybilly]

So that article still says that DM's team does it's closing address first, then MS's, then the Crown. Which is not what was stated in the earlier trial procedure links that stated the order depends on whether the accused's defense presents evidence. I wonder which is correct?

With two defendants (one presenting evidence and the other not presenting), maybe it's designed so that TD's closing can't rely on both RP's closing and Crown closing (which would result in giving defendant MS an advantage over defendant DM).

 

[deugirtni]

TD, or I should say MS, gave up the opportunity to have the last word AFTER DM's attorney gave his closing argument. That is a HUGE deal. So I would imagine he's expecting to have some really good persuasive evidence to present to have warranted that.

MOO

Trying to catch up here, sorry if I have missed too much to be saying what I'm about to say.

I am not surprised really, that DM is not taking the stand.. although it also would not have surprised me if he HAD taken the stand. I believe he listened to his counsel, who likely advised him that it was not in his best interests to do so. I believe the same for MS. And I believe that MS also would listen to his counsel, based on his behaviour in the courtroom... he didn't have the facial expressions and antics displayed by the uncontrollable DM. Therefore, I believe the witness that will be called in MS's defence will be someone different than MS himself. I have to admit that it will surprise me a LOT if MS takes the stand, and especially since DM is NOT taking the stand. If either of the accuseds was likely to take the stand, my guess is that DM would have been a much more likely candidate. moo.

I recall that TD was looking for something further during the time when the officer was testifying about the blood spatter and GSR, etc., found in TB's truck.... remember TD asking his opinion on whether the shooter was most likely located in the front... but the witness at the time, said that he had not been qualified by the court to answer such a question? It seemed to me at the time that the witness may have indeed been qualified to give such an opinion, however he was the Crown's witness, and the Crown had not sought to qualify him as an expert in *that* regard, at *that* time, so therefore he was not allowed to give his opinion on what TD was looking for.

I think TD will call someone, perhaps the same officer, perhaps NOT the same one, to give expert opinion regarding which direction the gunshot most likely came from. This is only my guess, moo.

Also, since TD clarified that MS had some kind of injury to his left shoulder.. I am wondering if he might also call a medical witness to attest to that. Perhaps TD is going to try to make the point that if MS was sitting in the back, as he was reported to have been when TB's vehicle left the driveway, and, just say that his left arm could not rise above a certain point without excruciating pain or something, and so MS was limited to using his right hand, then would it be possible for that kind of positioning to shoot the front seat passenger, and cause the blood spatter in the way that it was found, and cause it without GSR appearing in the back.. etc.

 

[deugirtni]

I can't wait to hear about the legal arguments regarding TB's case and just what information the public and jury was not permitted to know. We will likely have to wait until after LB and WM's trials are over before knowing, IMO. I imagine some important information was argued away because it overlapped with the other trials, IMO.

All MOO.

Imo, I don't think that evidence was dis-allowed just because it overlapped with the other trials.. but rather, because certain evidence pertained to the other cases, and not specifically to this one.. except to have said that the accuseds did this or that in that other case, and so it is more believable that they could have done that or this in this case also.. except that those other cases have not gone to trial yet, and so they also can't say that. For now, it is only hearsay. I agree however, that there is a LOT of stuff that has been withheld from the jury for one reason or another, and I hope that some day we will get to hear all of it. I hope ABro is writing a really explicit book chock full of all of those missing details. Quite the undertaking to write a book on this case!

 

[deugirtni]

From what I've read so far it does not appear that DM uses blackmail. He keeps people on his side by making them willing participants in his crimes. If they rat him out they rat themselves. He uses his money to make friends. He feels for their moral limits and exploits any dark tendencies.

Although I don't know much about it, I seem to recall talk here of an incident when DM and his cronies were doing something to one of DM's tenant's vehicles. Sounds not like blackmail perhaps, but vengeance, and perhaps blackmail via instilling fear in the tenant to not pursue whatever she was causing a fuss about? jmo

 

[Miranda16]

Regarding DM's lawyers... while there are varying levels of capability, as ABro said, the defense can only work with what it has to work with.

Although I was not present, I believe that DM's lawyer team worked hard during legal arguments and were successful in preventing a lot of evidence that would hurt DM's case. A very high percentage of their subsequent objections with jury present were granted by Justice Goodman. I suspect that RP and NS tried to block letters from DM to CN but were not successful. These letters were IMO a mortal wound to DM's defense, the iceberg that tore open the ship, now SS Millard is sinking fast. RP and NS have done what they could, a bit more hard rowing to do during the TD defense cross exam, then abandon ship and collect remaining fees..

RP was the better of the pair in my opinion. NS... had a very bizarre method of questioning various witnesses, which I found distasteful and unprofessional.

just curious what legal argument they could have made against the letters? They did agree that the letters are authentic (or was that only after legal arguments were exhausted?). As a layperson I find it frustrating when defence lawyers are able to have evidence excluded, though I can accept that it is part of a system that guarantees our rights.

 

[deugirtni]

I just wanted to say that when this case first happened and it was all over the news about this 'rich guy' stealing a truck and etc., and then MS was later arrested.. I immediately thought that MS, with his prior petty criminal charges, scary appearance (at the time, in newspaper articles), etc., was the instigator, and that DM had gotten himself involved with 'the wrong crowd'. Funny how things change when actual evidence comes to light. <modsnip>

 

[andreww]

I don't know now what to make of MB's absence at DM's trial, IMO if she knew she wasn't going to be called as a witness, IMO. Maybe she didn't know for sure until today?

Even if MB now believes and accepts that DM is guilty as charged, she's still his mother and IMO she should have at least shown up at his trial to support him, IMO. Maybe some think that's expecting too much of MB as a mother, but I don't. If DM were my son no matter what he did and how much I hated his actions, I cannot imagine a scenario where I would abandon or reject him. I think what I would do is try to get him professional help and I'd be blaming myself for whatever failures I may have been responsible for that could have contributed to his behaviour, even if unfairly, but I would stand by my son even if he was a murderer, IMO. I know it would be a hard thing to do because of the public outrage against DM, but as a mother I think I would make the sacrifice required for my son, IMO.

All MOO.

Possibly she is happier being ignorant of the facts, believing in her sons innocence. Remember the night of the 10th when CN said the didn't watch any news because it was too painful. Also consider the idea that Millard himself had asked her not to attend. If I were in his shoes, the last thing I'd want is my mom watching, learning all the details of what a degenerate piece of *advertiser censored* I really am.