Bosma Murder Trial 05.20.16 - Day 53

[matou]

The lighter info is interesting. Smich is a smoker of cigarettes and weed. DM only smokes weed. There were lighters in his Yukon IIRC. I think if the lighter info was brought up there is something to it. Why bring it up? It doesn't match the story of Smich being in the truck on the highway and all of a sudden shooting TB. I think mentioning that lighter is very very strange. I believe it is DM's lighter. I wonder if LW knows? JMO

 

[Prairie_dawg]

The lighter info is interesting. Smich is a smoker of cigarettes and weed. DM only smokes weed. There were lighters in his Yukon IIRC. I think if the lighter info was brought up there is something to it. Why bring it up? It doesn't match the story of Smich being in the truck on the highway and all of a sudden shooting TB. I think mentioning that lighter is very very strange. I believe it is DM's lighter. I wonder if LW knows? JMO

Were there not lighters in Smich's bedroom as well? Need to dig up that photo. IMO

 

[Juballee]

The lighter info is interesting. Smich is a smoker of cigarettes and weed. DM only smokes weed. There were lighters in his Yukon IIRC. I think if the lighter info was brought up there is something to it. Why bring it up? It doesn't match the story of Smich being in the truck on the highway and all of a sudden shooting TB. I think mentioning that lighter is very very strange. I believe it is DM's lighter. I wonder if LW knows? JMO

According to MS's story, he was in that location twice as many times as DM, making him twice as likely to be the one who dropped it.

Then being that MS smokes two different substances and DM only smokes one, that would be twice as many as DM smokes, and that would again make him twice as likely to have been the one carrying a lighter.

Add the two together and you have MS being 4 times more likely to have had it been his lighter.

As as far as we know, LW was never there and had never even met MS, so how would she know if he had dropped a lighter that night? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[hellkat2]

Since when does carpet and interior need to match the paint? All of my vehicles are very different from the paint.

It is a bad metaphor? The plates don't match the make kind of deal. When a police officer focuses on a vehicle they run the plates and look for stuff.

 

[BeeRadley]

If Smich is a regular smoker, he would take care of that lighter more than a less than regular smoker such as Dellen. If all Dell does is smoke weed, then losing the lighter wouldn't be a big deal because Smich would likely have one and he wouldn't have noticed he dropped it until a few hours kater when he wanted to light another joint. Smich seemed like a pack a day plus kind of guy and would always know where it is. I'm just making an assumption.

 

[JuneBug67]

Am I clear that this is a lighter, with no provable ties to either of the accused, that was just pulled out at the last minute as some kind of gotcha? As if! If I was a juror I would be all pfffft...whatever.

 

[canadiangirl]

Its like he was wearing gloves the whole time in preparation for something.

I totally forgot about this because they didn't find any gloves with MS DNA on it. But IMO I don't think he'd be wearing gloves getting out of the truck at that moment? If the Tim Hortons story was suspicious, I don't see how wearing gloves right away wouldn't have raised red flags.

I've often wondered why they didn't just burn them anyway. Why keep these around?

 

[matou]

Sorry if already posted:

Tim Bosma Murder Trial: Video of Bosma’s truck on test drive with accused killers | EXHIBIT #100

[video=youtube;_muL7tp1ylo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_muL7tp1ylo&list=UUnsj4TU7mOQ-4l2HOaRekgA&index=1[/video]

 

[DeepWoodsOff]

It is a bad metaphor? The plates don't match the make kind of deal. When a police officer focuses on a vehicle they run the plates and look for stuff.

The plate switch would definitely not help if the police run the plate. To your point, when they run the plate they will see the discrepancies an likely pull you over to investigate further. However, where it would help, is if news of the missing truck made it to the general public. People would be looking for a black pick-up license ABC 123 but they would see DEF 456 and think, well that's not the truck they're looking for. The plate switch was to increase the odds of getting to the hangar without being caught. Had a cop pulled up behind them at a stop....done! MOO

 

[Prairie_dawg]

Am I clear that this is a lighter, with no provable ties to either of the accused, that was just pulled out at the last minute as some kind of gotcha? As if! If I was a juror I would be all pfffft...whatever.

Agreed, without prints or even a link to possessing another copy of the same/similar lighter there is nothing to it. The eye witness testified that lots of folks used that same field for dumping and mucking about. The lighter could be from anyone. If the lighter belonged to either of the accused and was found farther in the field then perhaps it was empty and tossed. It proves nothing by itself without alot more detail.

 

[don_quixote]

According to MS's story, he was in that location twice as many times as DM, making him twice as likely to be the one who dropped it.

Believe it or not, but less than 2 times.
Simple probability and the fact that he can't lose the same lighter twice.

Then being that MS smokes two different substances and DM only smokes one, that would be twice as many as DM smokes, and that would again make him twice as likely to have been the one carrying a lighter.

Well, it's not about how many substances he smokes. It's about having or not having a lighter on him, which may be not proportional to the number of substances he abuses.

Regardless, if it's either DM's or MS's lighter, it means they wandered into that part of the field, whether the SUV was parked there or not.

It would be interesting to see where that lighter was found, does it make any material difference at all. But it's not included into the exhibits.

According to Bullmann, people were dumping garbage illegally in that field all the time. Isn't it more likely that the lighter is from that garbage? As they say, if you hear hoofs, think horses, not zebras.

 

[JuneBug67]

Believe it or not, but less than 2 times.
Simple probability and the fact that he can't lose the same lighter twice.



Well, it's not about how many substances he smokes. It's about having or not having a lighter on him, which may be not proportional to the number of substances he abuses.

Regardless, if it's either DM's or MS's lighter, it means they wandered into that part of the field, whether the SUV was parked there or not.

It would be interesting to see where that lighter was found, does it make any material difference at all. But it's not included into the exhibits.

According to Bullmann, people were dumping garbage illegally in that field all the time. Isn't it more likely that the lighter is from that garbage? As they say, if you hear hoofs, think horses, not zebras.

This. As if Sachak even brought this lighter up! It's stuff like this that makes his overall argument feel weaker than it is I think.

 

[deugirtni]

The lighter info is interesting. Smich is a smoker of cigarettes and weed. DM only smokes weed. There were lighters in his Yukon IIRC. I think if the lighter info was brought up there is something to it. Why bring it up? It doesn't match the story of Smich being in the truck on the highway and all of a sudden shooting TB. I think mentioning that lighter is very very strange. I believe it is DM's lighter. I wonder if LW knows? JMO

Who knows. I believe it is an antic, like a green tomato, thrown out randomly by Sachak to try to confuse things. What if it was MS's lighter? So what? If it was pertinent evidence, it would have been brought up by the Crown in their case against the duo. If it was DM's lighter, so what? It was the man's last ditch effort to try to somehow create reasonable doubt that his client is guilty of first degree murder. Bring up a brand new, never-before-mentioned piece of evidence and leave it dangling in the wind to offer up to the jury that MS is a really really big liar. moo

 

[ABro]

Believe it or not, but less than 2 times.
Simple probability and the fact that he can't lose the same lighter twice.



Well, it's not about how many substances he smokes. It's about having or not having a lighter on him, which may be not proportional to the number of substances he abuses.

Regardless, if it's either DM's or MS's lighter, it means they wandered into that part of the field, whether the SUV was parked there or not.

It would be interesting to see where that lighter was found, does it make any material difference at all. But it's not included into the exhibits.

According to Bullmann, people were dumping garbage illegally in that field all the time. Isn't it more likely that the lighter is from that garbage? As they say, if you hear hoofs, think horses, not zebras.

I don't think the lighter proves anything either way -- and the stats, probability techniques used to pronounce it was 4 times more likely to be MS's lighter than DM's earn a giant F. That said, Bullmann did not say garbage was dumped there all the time. He said it had happened in the past and people pulled off the road there to use their phones regularly.

Presumably the lighter was tested for prints and DNA, and didn't yield anything or we would have heard about it way earlier in the trial.

 

[DeepWoodsOff]

Sorry if already posted:

Tim Bosma Murder Trial: Video of Bosma’s truck on test drive with accused killers | EXHIBIT #100

[video=youtube;_muL7tp1ylo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_muL7tp1ylo&list=UUnsj4TU7mOQ-4l2HOaRekgA&index=1[/video]

Watching this....I am SHOCKED that the Prosecution didn't pick up on this vehicle seemingly going past the camera three times, twice north and once south. I know there is no way to confirm 100% it is the same vehicle but through my eyes, there is no doubt in my mind that it is the same one. Even the shine coming off the vehicle appears the same...which falls in line with the testimony that Tim had just washed the truck to get ready for the test drive. This would support the idea that all three of them were in the vehicle at the time Tim was shot and it would also fill in the missing time in MS' time line. All my opinion but MS' story never made sense to me and this video supports that. But my main point is related to how LE didn't see this as important enough to point out or, more likely, missed it entirely. MOO

 

[redheart]

The plate switch would definitely not help if the police run the plate. To your point, when they run the plate they will see the discrepancies an likely pull you over to investigate further. However, where it would help, is if news of the missing truck made it to the general public. People would be looking for a black pick-up license ABC 123 but they would see DEF 456 and think, well that's not the truck they're looking for. The plate switch was to increase the odds of getting to the hangar without being caught. Had a cop pulled up behind them at a stop....done! MOO

I agree with this, but....Stopping at the side of the road to change plates also really increases the odds of being caught. LE sees someone changing plates at the side of the road, or messing with the plates and they're likely to have a longer look. Following Tim's Ram fairly closely with the Yukon at a legal speed would have been the best way to avoid detection.

I think the plate story is a tough call to decide whether it's true or not.

 

[Kamille]

Missed yesterday's testimony and had to get caught up. DM's "version of the truth" makes very little sense either. According to him, they left the Bosma driveway, drove north on Trinity Rd S to the 403. They got on the 403 eastbound and sometime before the very next off ramp, 2 minutes away, MS pulled a gun and pointed at TB. Then TB grabbed for the gun and it went off. On the 403 hwy. With other traffic around. In the dark. Where no one else saw a flash of light or heard a bang in a vehicle they may have been travelling close to. And remarkably, the driver of the vehicle had no idea what happened to prompt MS to shoot the gun. Even more remarkable is that in order to stay within the 10 minute time frame back and forth to the Super Sucker, they then suggest that DM was able to have his wits about him enough, after being surprised by a very loud bang from a gun that would have been inches from his own head and a man all of a sudden bleeding profusely from the head beside him, to exit at the very next off ramp without incident. Once again, I point out that this all took place within 2 minutes travelling at a speed of at least 100km per hour, and at some point he also suggested calling an ambulance and MS was able to declare TB dead, once again, all within 2 minutes. He is also such a good driver that he was able to immediately make a split second decision to find and get back on the westbound highway ramp to return to the vicinity of the victim's home. With a bullet hole at the very least in what was certainly a somewhat shattered window of the victim's vehicle and the victim beside him on the passenger seat. Because in his shock and surprise within seconds/minutes of this event happening, he had his wits about him enough to realize that he needed to get his own vehicle out of the vicinity immediately. The one that he hid in a field so no one would see it and take note of the license plate. Oh and call that ambulance. Uh huh.

So once he was able to get his own vehicle out of the way, not by getting into it and driving away and telling the shooter he was on his own to deal with the dead man and his truck, while dialing 911, which most normal innocent people would do who were shocked and surprised at what his "partner in crime" had done, he drove for another 20 minutes until he could find a secluded place to stop and ask the alleged shooter WTH happened. The one who was now driving his own truck with his beloved pet inside and could have left him at any moment to deal with a dead man and his stolen truck all alone. I guess he was really confident that MS would follow him for some reason. And I'm not sure whether DM's defense team admitted he found and disposed of TB's phone while on that secluded road. Where there just happened to be a Bobcat dealer with a lot of equipment left out on the lawn, just ripe for the picking. Wonder how he just randomly chose that road for his brief detour? Think it might have been a familiar "scoping" location to him?

We could go on and on with both scenarios being highly unlikely. Although MS's version is slightly more believable if you discount all his nonsense about being shocked and scared. He was DM's partner in crime, for at least a couple of years. Nothing DM did shocked, surprised or scared him it seems. So I don't buy any of that. He is far more involved in this than his story suggests. But it is possible that he was not in the truck when TB was shot because only DM seems to admit that he was in the Bosma truck at the time of the shooting.

Bottom line for me is that both defense teams seem to agree that at all times, DM was driving the Bosma truck and therefore he is the one person for sure who knows exactly what happened. And it doesn't look like we're going to hear a believable story from him. So it will likely forever be an unknown just who shot TB and why. Whether it was planned or a spur of the moment decision by one or the other, I think we've heard about all we're going to hear about the events surrounding the murder and I don't think the Crown will elicit any more clarity from MS. Likely they have their own theory to suggest during their cross. Which will make three different stories for the jury to decide from. I just want the Crown to explain how both are legally guilty of first degree murder based on the known facts and then let the jury get to deliberations.

MOO

 

[canadiangirl]

I don't believe DM's story and have major problems with it but Sachak highlighting how many people Smich has said lied on the stand one after another is a good tactic.

I agree it was. However the thing is, IIRC all or most of these people have lied at some point BEFORE taking the stand so it's not unreasonable to me that only some of what these people say are truths. Has there been anyone who's testified that wasn't LE or an expert we believe have been 100% truthful? Just a rhetorical question.

 

[deugirtni]

Wouldn't tire imprints prove or disprove where the Yukon was parked?

All comments are JMO unless stated otherwise

No, because in the time between the lighter being placed in whichever location it was placed/thrown/dropped/whatever, and the time the lighter was found by police, anyone could have happened upon it, kicked it without even knowing it was there, whatever. It is a meaningless last call for NS to say that MS is one big fat liar. moo

 

[redheart]

Bottom line for me is that both defense teams seem to agree that at all times, DM was driving the Bosma truck and therefore he is the one person for sure who knows exactly what happened. And it doesn't look like we're going to hear a believable story from him. So it will likely forever be an unknown just who shot TB and why. Whether it was planned or a spur of the moment decision by one or the other, I think we've heard about all we're going to hear about the events surrounding the murder and I don't think the Crown will elicit any more clarity from MS. Likely they have their own theory to suggest during their cross. Which will make three different stories for the jury to decide from. I just want the Crown to explain how both are legally guilty of first degree murder based on the known facts and then let the jury get to deliberations.

MOO

Snipped for space.

Yes, to ALL of this. Well said.