Bosma Murder Trial 05.25.16 - Day 55

[mskrisc]

Because MS called evidence, both defendants must present their closes before the Crown (651(1) of the Criminal Code).

I believe that the order that the defendants close will be the same as it was on the Indictment which is usually in alphabetical order as it was in this case, DM, then MS, but I'm not 100% certain of that. If you're going to commit a crime with a buddy, make sure his name is before yours alphabetically. JMO

Has nothing to do with Alphabetical Order. Millards legal team is before Smich's because DM was charged first


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[Georgeo]

Is it possible that TB was shot before MS got into the Yukon?

That's because they're 100% guilty and the trial was a complete waste of time and only prolonged the victim's (family's) agony.

There are many trials where we should be careful about jumping to conclusions (Baltovich, Millgard, etc.).

THIS IS NOT ONE OF THEM!

Agree wholeheartedly!

 

[hellkat2]

The gun could have had a silencer?

Does a pistol make a loud noise like a shotgun would? Plus if the shot was inside the truck maybe it muffled it.

 

[hellkat2]

I question this too. I've never fired a Walther, let alone any gun while inside a vehicle. So I can't speak from any experience there lol. I have no idea how loud it would be inside the truck with the windows up, add in both SB & WDB watching tv - who knows? Just another question to add to the list of those we'll never know the answer to.

I have seen footage on the news of gunshots going off that sound kind of like a fire cracker?

 

[matou]

CLAIRMONT: Jury has heard all the evidence in the Bosma trial

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6...as-heard-all-the-evidence-in-the-bosma-trial/

 

[mskrisc]

I actually find it disrespectful to the Bosma family for it to take that long.

Maybe DM is still after better food and whatever with his appearances in court against the Queen/Regina in the next few days? JMO

He has more upcoming court appearances? Is this documented somewhere? Also, do you know what it's regarding ?


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[hellkat2]

Wanted to add that it's potentially not just voire dire material that has been held back. I read an email exchange with Christie Blatchford during the Luka Magnotta trial - when asked why she wasn't explaining to her readers that the Logan Valentini that was testifying was Karla Homolka's sister, something she assuredly knew because of her deep involvement in Homolka reporting, she said that she wasn't able to talk about anything that the jury hadn't heard. So this wasn't a trial or voire dire fact, just a fact that was "out there" that she sidestepped in her reporting during the trial. So it's possible that other digging and investigative work of interest by journalists may surface soon as well.

Christie Blatchford in my opinion is one of the best criminal journalists there is bar none. Wish she took this case on.

 

[grimmyman]

Hmm. I'm not sure any more. After millards lawyer bungled his cross, the crown was much more aggressive and had a slightly better cross. However, as someone who has worked in the legal realm, It didn't feel like a good cross. I mean, I've seen better in smaller criminal trials. Largely, it was a cross of more (though quicker paced) hypothesis and scenarios, not largely based on fact and cross checking facts. Hard evidence reigns supreme, and in this case there was substantial, though the smoking gun is missing. I think the crown could have done better in its cross, and either disproved MS' claim of inocence, or it should have picked him apart, and shown through fact and physical evidence that his testimony is/was a lie. Because, ultimately, testimony under oath trumps hypothesis, but not physical evidence.

So, wrapping up this case:

I think Millard did it, and was the trigger man. Why else would have bought an incinerator - unless he had it laying around from when he had to dispose of a previous victim? I think he planned in, all along. I think hes the mastermind and thinks he can get away with it all.

Smich I think knows more but isn't telling. He has been consulted and knows there is a line between murder and aiding and being an accessory after the fact. He knows where the gun is. He probably knows more, but isn't telling. Though only one of the two can pull the trigger and I don't think it's MS and I don't think he planned to kill anyone. He's a small time petty crime kinda kid.

I predict the crown will have lots to say about all the things that MS did to help after the murder (clean up etc etc), in an effort to paint a foreknowing and planned participant, in its closing argument.

All my own opinion, of course.

 

[chunchoboi]

I struggle with this too! If MS was in the truck when TB was shot, why was no GSR or blood found in the Yukon? There's no way TB was shot with MS in the backseat and no blood or GSR would have landed on him and then transferred to the Yukon... MOO

Probably because he brought a "change of clothes" and changed out of them the same time he xfered to the Yukon, probably threw the clothes he was wearing while in the backseat during the murder in with the rest of the bloody mess for incineration once they got to "the Eliminator", hence the red hoodie that was never seen again.

 

[ILoveDateline]

....ah no. i think it means telling LE/public/media as well. Although, my question is; IF he says seriously didn't know a shooting was going to happen by his partner in crime and he tells his new friends that he was only counteracting the framing his partner was doing anyway or ...ah i'm so good with wording!! If i were a thief and my partner pulled a gun and THAT WASN'T THE PLAN - that's still ratting?
sorry cut and paste went weird there i thought i had to have it out of the quotes. while i have you...funny i always tell kids not to tattle, unless it's a safety thing - not sure how i should look at that!

I'm still not sure I understand, friend. I think you can tell jail house friends your tale regardless of the circumstances and it's OK. Its a bonding thing. You can also tell old friends too but some people might not respect you. As soon as the story is more widespread; media., LE or many outside people, you become a rat and have to watch your back. This is my armchair assessment of a rat. IMO.

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[CJPRINCESS]

I don't think it was a good move for TD to mention how MS is exhausted after 9 days on the stand and that MS has trouble sleeping at Barton Street jail. The first thing that came into my head is that MS can't sleep because he has a guilty conscience, and my next thought was how trivial a thing to mention in front of the victim's family who by comparison are rightfully exhausted and likely don't sleep well ever since TB's murder. And lastly it was an odd way to introduce TD's last questions of MS which came across to me as an obligatory attempt by TD to reduce MS's 9 days of testimony into a few salient points.

All MOO.

Was thinking about this one. Everyone is wondering why Dungey mentioned MS being tired. As I read on to other posts, it's been stated that MS is taking up residence at Barton? DM is also at Barton. Wonder if this was more of a point out that "MS is still afraid of DM" and that is why he isn't sleeping as well to justify his "stumbles". Just a guess.

 

[mozzagirl]

Any guesses on how long the deliberations will take?

My guess is less than a day.

 

[mskrisc]

Here you go..... the Bosmas home is at 1230 Trinity Road and the red X marks where the Yukon was parked in the field.

Wow Thanks! First time seeing that myself. Laneway I such further than I imagined


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[hellkat2]

I'm thankful I'm not on the jury either, as I said, I don't envy them at all. However no one has said that they think MS is innocent and should walk. We just aren't sure to what extent he is guilty. And since I'm not the only fence sitter, I tend to think out of 14 jurors there may be a fence sitter there too. Or at least someone wavering. Which is the whole point of MS going on the stand if you ask me. MOO.

I do have to say the "passion" I feel from posters and people in general discussing this case is strong. If I was on trial and trying to prove my innocence, I'd hope those people were not on the jury either.
A lot of people had both the accused guilty before ever going to trial. (general public included). Very scary IMO.

I keep trying to frame it all as if I was the family of TB and if I was I would want anyone involved punished to the maximum of the law. i would not be able to handle that people involved are walking around free while my loved one is not.

 

[matou]

He has more upcoming court appearances? Is this documented somewhere? Also, do you know what it's regarding ?


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His name has come up a few times in the Ontario courts dockets with him filing against the Queen. I think I've read somewhere that he was complaining about his food while in jail and was taking his case to court over it. It was around the time when he was late getting to court and court was delayed a bit.

 

[ILoveDateline]

But, legally speaking, it doesn't matter who pulled the trigger.


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Yes, perhaps it doesn't. I don't know enough about the law and if one can or cannot find MS guilty of first degree given the evidence. There has been so much talk that it depends on whether he was in the truck at the time or whether he had advanced knowledge or preplanned the murder. I'm waiting to hear what the judge's instructions are.

My previous post was mainly to a poster that thought both MS and DM should have plead guilty and why i thought that wasn't possible.

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[hellkat2]

Wow Thanks! First time seeing that myself. Laneway I such further than I imagined


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Thanks for this map.

 

[hellkat2]

If you can call getting beaten up 4 times so far a better time of it.

Are you saying that dm got beaten up 4 times in prison? Did not know this.

 

[saulgoodman]

Not sure if mentioned before, if so please forgive me. And please enlighten me.
If the plan was to test/scope TB's truck and come back later to steal it as planned (ALLNIGHTER) They did bring a change of clothes, duct tape (for who knows what) and not even a screw driver to change the plates. And we know of one gun.
How in the world were they planning on stealing it without the keys?


I'm having a difficult time believingTB was shot at the lane way, that close to home. Without any neighbours hearing a loud bang from a gunshot. Especially at that time of day, shortly after 9 PM.


Back in the early 80's undercover police officers from TO would come to my farm to practice shoot, and I have no doubt in my mind, given that time of day, someone should have heard a bang.
However, I can not say how muffled a shot would be from inside a vehicle with the windows closed.
It would be deafening to those inside,to say the least.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Does a pistol make a loud noise like a shotgun would? Plus if the shot was inside the truck maybe it muffled it.

Two different sounds. A shotgun is very loud and a bit drawn out and is a for sure ear zinger with a big echo (I use to hunt with my dad and covered my ears). A pistol (according to a youtube I seen) is like a very loud cap gun pop sound, short not drawn out like a shotgun. If you go to an indoor gun range, they use ear muffs for a reason as well. It's not quiet.

YouTube "gun shots at night" there should be a video of guys firing 3 differnt guns at night. A shotgun, Glock 9mm and a PK-380. If I can find it again, I'll edit or post the name of the original poster. I can't link youtube from my phone.