Bosma Murder Trial 05.31.16 - Day 56 - Closing Arguments Begin

[JuneBug67]

Did I miss any of the attorneys asking MM if there was some kind of agreement for "them" to get the Cadillac as payment for a "mission"? I believe there was some talk that if MM got her license, DM may give them the car but I'd think if she was telling her boyfriend it was stupid to go on this mission, he'd have told her that was the only way they were going to get the car. Sounds to me like this was something discussed between MS and DM long before the new plan for "test driving and scoping" to steal a truck came into play.

Also, just as DM wanted to save on fuel costs by getting a truck with a diesel engine, how on earth could MS and MM afford to drive an old Cadillac to Calgary? Was DM also offering up one of WM's credit cards for gas?

The story seems like complete nonsense, strictly based on MS's mother's comment. But then I do not understand why MS was not embracing the fact that he said that to his mother. Why would he deny saying something that could have been completely innocent, essentially calling his own mother a liar. The fact that he didn't just say "Yes I said that to my mother because it was just one more of the many promises by DM that was not going to happen" makes me seriously wonder if there WAS an arrangement that he chose to distance himself from. Perhaps he just thought the comment was insensitive and wanted to distance himself from just the comment but if that was the case, it was a foolish move.

He should never have testified IMO.

MOO

The mom quote is weird to me because surely worry that he wouldn't get his car now did not even approach a realistic concern for MS at that point. The realistic worry, and the worry that the balance of the evidence suggests, is that he was frantic and paranoid about being arrested. However if it was indeed something he was genuinely upset about I think that almost suggests he didn't see himself guilty of a murder. I'm just not sure what to make of it, or the denial, or even if that denial was a lie in the sense that there is always witness memory to consider as a factor.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Could it be their common strategy (discussed about during the last 50 minutes they saw each other on 10th May) to remain silent (they did for 3 years) and/or finally to point the finger to each other to cause enough doubt?

That or maybe DM trying to convince MS to take the full fall? Maybe with promise to pay for lawyers and some extra cash (and Caddy) and try and get him out of the charges? Maybe this is where the Caddy came into play for Pillay to use?

Too bad Pillay didnt mention anything about that 50mins in his closing.

 

[andreww]

The more I think about this, the more I have to conclude this was quite possibly the most stupid, ill-planned "plan" in the history of stupid plans. I'm still not convinced it was an actual plan (never have been), but if it was, you would think DM and MS would have taken at least half as much care to detail as they did with all the other "missions" that included scoping things out, walkie-talkies, lookouts, etc.

We're expected to believe this plan was hatched over a year before the actual murder but in all that time these two never took the time to make sure everything was in place before the night of May 6 or even before the weekend of test drives? Something just isn't adding up for me. I'm really hoping the Crown can clear it up.

I disagree. I think the plan was actually quite good, and if Millard had worn a long sleeve shirt to the IT test drive there's a good chance we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[billandrew]

The more I think about this, the more I have to conclude this was quite possibly the most stupid, ill-planned "plan" in the history of stupid plans. I'm still not convinced it was an actual plan (never have been), but if it was, you would think DM and MS would have taken at least half as much care to detail as they did with all the other "missions" that included scoping things out, walkie-talkies, lookouts, etc.

We're expected to believe this plan was hatched over a year before the actual murder but in all that time these two never took the time to make sure everything was in place before the night of May 6 or even before the weekend of test drives? Something just isn't adding up for me. I'm really hoping the Crown can clear it up.

I would suggest that they did have a well thought out plan in place. They seized an opportunity in killing TB and had to improvise a little, but otherwise they had all the tools in place: gun, incinerator, mechanic to chop up the truck, etc.

Consider how lucky the police were in getting the ambition tattoo lead, and how much that contributed to catching these guys early.

Recall that Jennings called Crimestoppers on May 9, but he didn't reveal the location or provide any names. We'll never know if he ever would have.

The police only caught on to Millard and the hangar when they did because of the ambition tattoo. If not for that, who knows how much more of the evidence they would have cleaned up before the police could find them. Blood, DNA, bones; it wouldn't have taken much more work for there to be absolutely no trace of TB anywhere.

 

[andreww]

That or maybe DM trying to convince MS to take the full fall? Maybe with promise to pay for lawyers and some extra cash (and Caddy) and try and get him out of the charges? Maybe this is where the Caddy came into play for Pillay to use?

Too bad Pillay didnt mention anything about that 50mins in his closing.

I believe the 50 min meeting would have been to alert Smich to the gun/drug situation and to stress that neither of them say anything. I wonder if they discussed getting rid of the truck if Millard are arrested?

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

They planned for a year and the best they could come up with is to park next to the victims house, both walk up to the house and been seen in person by eye witnesses. Then take the victim around the block or to the highway and shot him inside the thing they wanted for a year, ruining it, and then drive back, next to the victims house with him dead in a mess, and let one guy out of the truck to follow back the other way, to stop and regroup for no reason, and then head to the farm and then back to the hanger. That's a very zig zag route to be foolproof, in my opinion.

Even the tiniest bit of planning would have called for one of them to stay in the Yukon to save from doubling back and have one less suspect be identified by eyewitnesses. The tiniest bit of planning would have put the incinerator at the hanger, or would have had the trailer waiting around the corner to drive the truck into. This whole thing smacks of a robbery that went sideways and snowballed from there, in my opinion.

IMO, their texts and other evidence do show that they were planning to steal a truck and commit a murder. That was their intent all along.

Because the plan went awry doesn't mean that it wasn't their initial intent. Certainly their plan could have been greatly improved upon, but it wasn't. Their intent, desire was still there.




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[littlesauce]

I'll bet that it will be much fuller when Leitch does his closing arguments, and also for Justice Goodman's charge, and maybe too for Dungey's close, to be able to see him in action.

Do you think that you will attend on any more days?

I am sure that it has been very interesting to attend.


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I have to work the rest of this week but am on vacation next week so if the Judge's charges are set for Monday (which rumour is they will be) then I will definitely try to attend for that too! Going has been eye opening to say the least. For one, being in a room with two guys up on murder charges is oddly exhilarating. Dellen stared and smiled at me yesterday and I just froze. It creeped me right out and I couldn't look away fast enough. My heart races when they enter the room, I don't know if it is fear or what but it's unlike anything I've ever felt before. Maybe some will judge me, but that's my reaction to being there.
Then you see the Bosmas. Oh, sweet Bosmas. They are such kind souls. Always smiling, joking around with each other, and always willing to say hello to the others who come to attend. That in itself has been interesting to see. One would expect that the family and friends of the victim would be upset/angry, but that rarely comes across. They are a strong group and they inspire me to see the way they get through this.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

I believe the 50 min meeting would have been to alert Smich to the gun/drug situation and to stress that neither of them say anything. I wonder if they discussed getting rid of the truck if Millard are arrested?

Only thing with that is, what could MS possibly do with the truck? He couldn't tow it behind his bicycle.

 

[Juballee]

IMO, their texts and other evidence do show that they were planning to steal a truck and commit a murder. That was their intent all along.

Because the plan went awry doesn't mean that it wasn't their initial intent. Certainly their plan could have been greatly improved upon, but it wasn't. Their intent, desire was still there.




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Planning to steal a truck and planning to murder a man are two completely different things. Clearly a theft was planned, but what texts clearly demonstrate that a murder was eminent that night? The ambiguous sausage picture?

For two guys with a year to plan and all the tools to actually make it 'perfect', it really appears that the covering up a murder part of the planning didn't start until after the murder.

 

[Juballee]

That or maybe DM trying to convince MS to take the full fall? Maybe with promise to pay for lawyers and some extra cash (and Caddy) and try and get him out of the charges? Maybe this is where the Caddy came into play for Pillay to use?

Too bad Pillay didnt mention anything about that 50mins in his closing.

I don't member MS mentioning what happened in those 50 minutes during his testimony either. I think if Pillay had had more than a day for closing he would have had time to address all the issues that he didn't today, but no one here really wanted that, did they?

 

[DMB]

Yes this article explains it was delayed to Monday https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...th-of-tim-bosma-set-to-begin-in-hamilton.html

The B's received the call May 4, IT and others were called May 3, IT on test drive May 5, TB May 6.

So, Mr. Pillay, if DM actually thought he could do the deed Sat. the 4th or even the 5th, that means no employees would likely have been in the hangar and his appts were several days off.

Employees????? Shane & Arthur???

 

[Ontario Mom]

I would suggest that they did have a well thought out plan in place. They seized an opportunity in killing TB and had to improvise a little, but otherwise they had all the tools in place: gun, incinerator, mechanic to chop up the truck, etc.

Consider how lucky the police were in getting the ambition tattoo lead, and how much that contributed to catching these guys early.

Recall that Jennings called Crimestoppers on May 9, but he didn't reveal the location or provide any names. We'll never know if he ever would have.

The police only caught on to Millard and the hangar when they did because of the ambition tattoo. If not for that, who knows how much more of the evidence they would have cleaned up before the police could find them. Blood, DNA, bones; it wouldn't have taken much more work for there to be absolutely no trace of TB anywhere.

For two guys who had a year to plan, the whole thing comes off as a sloppy mess that they didn't know what to do with, until after the fact. That doesn't strike me at all as a plan that had been in place for over a year.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I have to work the rest of this week but am on vacation next week so if the Judge's charges are set for Monday (which rumour is they will be) then I will definitely try to attend for that too! Going has been eye opening to say the least. For one, being in a room with two guys up on murder charges is oddly exhilarating. Dellen stared and smiled at me yesterday and I just froze. It creeped me right out and I couldn't look away fast enough. My heart races when they enter the room, I don't know if it is fear or what but it's unlike anything I've ever felt before. Maybe some will judge me, but that's my reaction to being there.
Then you see the Bosmas. Oh, sweet Bosmas. They are such kind souls. Always smiling, joking around with each other, and always willing to say hello to the others who come to attend. That in itself has been interesting to see. One would expect that the family and friends of the victim would be upset/angry, but that rarely comes across. They are a strong group and they inspire me to see the way they get through this.

Thank you so much for sharing your experiences. I love hearing impressions from people who have attended. It will be especially good for you to be able to be there for the judge's charge to the jury, and I am hoping that you will share that as well with us as it will be so much better than the tweets. I also hope that his instructions will be published in their entirety.

I especially love hearing first-hand about the Bosma family ... I have enormous admiration for them for so many reasons. As you said, they are truly inspiring. Thanks again!




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[Just4TB]

it really appears that the covering up a murder part of the planning didn't start until after the murder.

RSBM
Was the Eliminator purchased after the murder???

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I believe the 50 min meeting would have been to alert Smich to the gun/drug situation and to stress that neither of them say anything. I wonder if they discussed getting rid of the truck if Millard are arrested?

Get rid of the truck: without a driver license (for driving with a trailer) and without old red truck (hidden at friends of SS) almost impossible, I think.

 

[billandrew]

For two guys who had a year to plan, the whole thing comes off as a sloppy mess that they didn't know what to do with, until after the fact. That doesn't strike me at all as a plan that had been in place for over a year.

You're free to feel that way. The facts are that neither of them made any indication that things didn't go perfectly to plan. The evidence is that they celebrated in the truck the next day, Millard texted Noudga about moving on with the mission, Millard and Smich continued working together after without any sign of contention between them (e.g. Millard continued to refer to Smich as his bro), etc.

There is no evidence that either of them showed any sign of distress, shock, surprise, disappointment, etc. until they realized the police might be onto them.

The evidence suggests to me not that they were sloppy, but rather that they were cocky and thought were getting away with the perfect murder. Luckily they got caught.

 

[Coldpizza]

Good morning:smile: Trial thread is open for posting.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Trial-06-1-16-Day-57-Closing-Arguments-Day-2

Of course huge thanks to those posting tweets. :cupcake:

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Planning to steal a truck and planning to murder a man are two completely different things. Clearly a theft was planned, but what texts clearly demonstrate that a murder was eminent that night? The ambiguous sausage picture?

For two guys with a year to plan and all the tools to actually make it 'perfect', it really appears that the covering up a murder part of the planning didn't start until after the murder.

Clearly our opinions differ. You believe they were only planning on stealing a truck. We interpret the evidence differently.

Regarding the text messages, billandrew's timeline and his posts have perfectly conveyed DM's and MS's intent to both steal and murder. I am sorry but I don't have time to repost them here.

Add in bringing a loaded gun, purchase of a livestock incinerator and so much more that I don't have time for now, but I have previously stated all my personal reasoning.

They planned to steal and murder, IMO. They planned to steal a truck IYO.

 

[FastLikeLight]

For two guys who had a year to plan, the whole thing comes off as a sloppy mess that they didn't know what to do with, until after the fact. That doesn't strike me at all as a plan that had been in place for over a year.

imho, most likely they forgot that the body with a hole bleeds creating a mess. The bullet maybe passed through the neck and broke a window. Probably it did not kill immediately thus some fight could happen inside.

 

[andreww]

Only thing with that is, what could MS possibly do with the truck? He couldn't tow it behind his bicycle.

No, but SS was still able and apparently willing to help.