Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #16

[andreww]

I don't know. As I understand it the Eliminator did not use the generator on May 6/7, but instead used power at the hangar. Given that, what we have left is a text about a guy going somewhere he goes virtually every day (Waterloo), mentioning a BBQ related task for that week, on a week where there was an actual barbecue at Maplegate but no scheduled test drives, in the middle of a series of texts that don't appear to be about anything identifiably ominous, proximate to a text about a generator that was not used in the crime. Hopefully even those that find the texts damning can see that those of us who can't use these towards guilt are not being frivolous.

What I wonder is was there an actual barbecue at the farm? I mean what barbecue business could he have at the farm? Did he have a freezer full of meat there? Propane tanks? If he did, don't you think his defence team might have mentioned that on that night Millard picked up a barbecue that was stored at the farm and brought it to Maplegate? No, because it just never happened.

 

[ILoveDateline]

"k cuz then I need a lil bit before I can dip."

Roughly translated I believe he says "okay, then I'll need a little bit more time before I can leave".

I believe he meant he needs some drugs (not sure which kind), before he can leave. moo

Is dip a well known term for leaving? I, too, think it refers to drugs, but it could be time. Heck, it could be short for Do Intense Planning.

Thanks to all for reading, posting and interpreting these texts. While I maintain the sausages and fireside furniture texts are not heinous and incriminating, the remaining texts pre & post "event" has started to sway me on MS (I previously bought his story).

andreww, I think it was you (sorry, if it wasn't) that previously said MS just might be the conniving one we should be watching because there is little physical evidence to link him to the murder & clean up and he was able to craft a story that is supported by the evidence but also excludes him from the murder. I'll see if I can find the msg I'm talking about.

If MS was so scared and doing what he is told, he is a little too proactive in his outreach to DM May 7>. I do believe it was a brother-for-life, ride or die mentally but MS was a little too willing after May 7 to help. He and MM were attached at the hip and so, one of the biggest signals to me he was DTM (down to murder) is that he didn't crawl into the fetal position sobbing to be held.

 

[canadiangirl]

What I wonder is was there an actual barbecue at the farm? I mean what barbecue business could he have at the farm? Did he have a freezer full of meat there? Propane tanks? If he did, don't you think his defence team might have mentioned that on that night Millard picked up a barbecue that was stored at the farm and brought it to Maplegate? No, because it just never happened.

Where are you getting that anyone said there was a BBQ at the farm?
We said there was an actual BBQ happening that week with women invited.

 

[JuneBug67]

Question, was Smich invited to the actual barbecue?

There's no evidence that he was or wasn't, but let's assume he didn't go. Regardless, friends are typically aware of events in each others lives and it would not be unusual for things to come up in conversation.

 

[Typhoo1961]

Millard looked after disposing his own garbage.

It makes me wonder why DM felt the need to do that. I wonder what was in his garbage that he was trying to hide.

 

[Just4TB]

And when bullets pass through people, the spray comes from the exit wound (especially if zombie bullets were used) which would have been in the direction of the passenger side. Blood doesn't spray back in the direction of the shooter. As I said before, and I've seen a ton of pics of gunshot victims, there rarely is a lot of splatter but they do tend to plead out where they fall.

RS/BBM
I disagree with the bolded portion. Robert Jones was qualified as a Blood Spatter expert witness. Jones testified about this exact subject. It is called "Back Spatter"

Dungey: asking if driver shoots Mr. Bosma, blood would come back toward driver? Jones says there would be some back spatter, yes. Mar 07, 2016

 

[puppyraiser]

We know DM and MS are the two parties involved in the murder. Questions linger for some about how much MS actually knew of the plan that particular night. I find it difficult to understand how these two could shoot Mr Bosma within minutes of being seen by two other people in the driveway. For all the scoping, planning and other thefts they completed, it defies logic that they would follow through with a 'plan to steal, murder, burn' with two witnesses who could possibly provide detailed descriptions of at least one of them. I can understand MS saying it wasn't 'the plan' in that they probably talked about making sure no witnesses had seen them directly. I think DM did veer from the detailed plan because he was getting desperate and impatient. Just my thoughts.

 

[Juballee]

I find it interesting that so many believe that the friends of DM & MS lied to police and/or lied on the stand (and I think many of them did as well), but as soon as MS said he or she lied or wasn't being honest, it's a 180 and he's the liar. Granted, I think he's lying too about certain things but it's just interesting how that works out.

I think that the way I determine who was lying when is by asking myself who has an incentive to lie about what.

For example CN had an incentive to lie about what was discussed when moving the truck or her reasons for wiping the truck because it has direct bearing on the charges against her, but she has no incentive to lie about what MS told her on the phone. MS has an incentive to lie about talking to CN, because he appeared to have possibly admitted his guilt to her. He would have been better off to stick his his amnesia excuse about the call than to distinctly remember not talking to her, in my opinion.

And it is the same for the other times MS claims another witness was lying. What incentive is there for BD to lie about MS saying that the zombie bullets were for the gun he wanted but that DM got that one and that he got another gun, the one that was in the toolbox? No reason to lie about that, nothing about that story makes BD look better or worse. But great incentive for MS to claim BD was lying, as it makes him look guilty of being the trigger man or at the least having it be his gun used in the murder.

I think if this test were applied to each case where MS says another witness was wrong or mistaken or lying, the results would hold consistent with MS being the one with the most incentive to lie for each discrepancy. Anyone up for the challenge?

 

[JuneBug67]

What I wonder is was there an actual barbecue at the farm? I mean what barbecue business could he have at the farm? Did he have a freezer full of meat there? Propane tanks? If he did, don't you think his defence team might have mentioned that on that night Millard picked up a barbecue that was stored at the farm and brought it to Maplegate? No, because it just never happened.

Andrew, COME ON. First, Waterloo is the airport, Millard's place of work. The series of texts is completely consistent with something like "Heading to work, need to make some calls about the barbecue this week". You know? This is about sending men to prison for 25 years. It all could be about the crime and the Eliminator, of course it could. But given the stakes, for some people that is a dangerous set of assumptions on a short series of words that can equally have a benign interpretation. Surely you can understand that?

 

[Ontario Mom]

I think that the way I determine who was lying when is by asking myself who has an incentive to lie about what.

For example CN had an incentive to lie about what was discussed when moving the truck or her reasons for wiping the truck because it has direct bearing on the charges against her, but she has no incentive to lie about what MS told her on the phone. MS has an incentive to lie about talking to CN, because he appeared to have possibly admitted his guilt to her. He would have been better off to stick his his amnesia excuse about the call than to distinctly remember not talking to her, in my opinion.

And it is the same for the other times MS claims another witness was lying. What incentive is there for BD to lie about MS saying that the zombie bullets were for the gun he wanted but that DM got that one and that he got another gun, the one that was in the toolbox? No reason to lie about that, nothing about that story makes BD look better or worse. But great incentive for MS to claim BD was lying, as it makes him look guilty of being the trigger man or at the least having it be his gun used in the murder.

I think if this test were applied to each case where MS says another witness was wrong or mistaken or lying, the results would hold consistent with MS being the one with the most incentive to lie for each discrepancy. Anyone up for the challenge?

Interesting that you bring up BD. Was it him or Hagerman that mentioned "but then lies were told"?? I think they're all liars when it suits them. Since MS was already arrested and presumably not in contact with BD and MH, which one was telling the lies and what exactly were they lying about? Lying about MS or DM or something else?

 

[canadiangirl]

Interesting that you bring up BD. Was it him or Hagerman that mentioned "but then lies were told"?? I think they're all liars when it suits them. Since MS was already arrested and presumably not in contact with BD and MH, which one was telling the lies and what exactly were they lying about? Lying about MS or DM or something else?

It was Hagerman in reference to his and AM cutting ties and no longer being friends after that day.

 

[Crimeinthe6ix]

Is dip a well known term for leaving? I, too, think it refers to drugs, but it could be time. Heck, it could be short for Do Intense Planning.

Dip is a very common term for leaving. IMO that's exactly what he is saying.

 

[canadiangirl]

Dip is a very common term for leaving. IMO that's exactly what he is saying.

Not singling you out, thanks for the street lingo. (I've noticed you're really helpful with that a lot).

But even saying he's leaving. As I pointed out there was no further text communication from DM to MS until May 2.

 

[redheart]

Andrew, COME ON. First, Waterloo is the airport, Millard's place of work. The series of texts is completely consistent with something like "Heading to work, need to make some calls about the barbecue this week". You know? This is about sending men to prison for 25 years. It all could be about the crime and the Eliminator, of course it could. But given the stakes, for some people that is a dangerous set of assumptions on a short series of words that can equally have a benign interpretation. Surely you can understand that?

But that's not at all fair to paint it as the interpretation of MS texts possibly sending him to prison for 25 years. The texts are only part of the evidence against him. If you focus on any one piece of evidence there's always an alternate explanation. Same goes for DM.

 

[Crimeinthe6ix]

Not singling you out, thanks for the street lingo. (I've noticed you're really helpful with that a lot).

But even saying he's leaving. As I pointed out there was no further text communication from DM to MS until May 2.

Good point - I am not 100% sure on this so I'm not going to speculate at all.

 

[canadiangirl]

But that's not at all fair to paint it as the interpretation of MS texts possibly sending him to prison for 25 years. The texts are only part of the evidence against him. If you focus on any one piece of evidence there's always an alternate explanation. Same goes for DM.

Well in all fairness we're discussing the first degree murder charge for MS which includes premeditation and forcible confinement.

And other then some texts, that's about all anyone is trying to say seals MS' fate which is why the heavy focus. Scary. JMO

 

[FastLikeLight]

There is a photo of the truck trunk what was treated to trace blood marks. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...APS-**No-Discussion**&p=12402374#post12402374
Crown mentioned that the body was re-positioned. Did they mean that it was transferred to trunk? Of course clothes and other blooded stuff could have been placed here too. I don't think that washing inside would left so much mess in the trunk.

 

[Miranda16]

One theory I had was that they pulled into the field, MS got out telling TB that he was going to get into the Yukon. He instead put on gloves, went to the passenger side of the vehicle and shot TB.

Then DM would also need to have exited otherwise MS would be shooting towards him unless he angled the gun down (I.e. If he shot horizontally and TB managed to move, DM is in the line of fire if still in the vehicle - he wouldn't have wanted that) It probably also wouldn't have left the same GSR patterns?

 

[redheart]

Well in all fairness we're discussing the first degree murder charge for MS which includes premeditation and forcible confinement.

And other then some texts, that's about all anyone is trying to say seals MS' fate which is why the heavy focus. Scary. JMO

That might be all that's being debated at the moment, but it's simply not true that the texts are the only evidence against MS or the only evidence ever discussed. The texts most definitely are not the only evidence that will decide whether MS gets 1st degree or not.

 

[canadiangirl]

That might be all that's being debated at the moment, but it's simply not true that the texts are the only evidence against MS or the only evidence ever discussed. The texts most definitely are not the only evidence that will decide whether MS gets 1st degree or not.

I don't see any other evidence of premeditation for murder other then texts that are being interpreted different by different people and some online searches that others did as well.

I see a lot AFTER the fact. Clean up. Destroying evidence for a different charge but as a whole, I'm not seeing it.

Not to be confused with, I'm on MS' side.