Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #16

[deugirtni]

Originally Posted by CJPRINCESS
How about the necklace picture? We didn't see that either. It was MM'S comment of almost disgust that made me think it was more then fine jewelry.

Paraphrasing here:
MS sends a pic of a necklace to MM and says "for your mother"
MM replies "MARK!!!"

Not the typical response I'd give my hubby for doing something nice for my mother.

Just an example of how things can get misread when not seen. It also may have well been a beautiful gold and diamond necklace or something awfully gross or something he was going to steal from a store.

A "pearl necklace" is a term for when a man ejaculates on a woman's chest. I think this might be the meaning of the inside joke between these two.

It was a picture of a necklace and earrings. MS said, "You like for your mom?". It was May 9th, 3 days before Mother's Day. I hadn't thought there was any doubt that MS was asking MM if she wanted him to steal it for MM to give to her mother, and MM admonished him. That was my own take on it. This small example goes to show how easily texts can be misinterpreted to become whatever we want them to, imho, just like the sausage pic showing a high-five for most people, but some people visualize a gun. moo

 

[deugirtni]

Yes we are lucky ... We will hear Justice Goodman's charge to the jury via tweets, in addition to all the closing arguments.

Susan Clairmont tweeted earlier today that the Crown's closing will also be available to be published as a transcript in its entirety, and Pillay might allow that to be done but it isn't certain, and Dungey's closing will only be via tweets because he doesn't write his closing arguments down on paper ... It is all in his head [emoji4]


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I look very much forward to hearing the judge's charge to the jury, however that in itself is expected to take at least 2 days, and if we are going to receive it in tweets, we will miss a lot. Unless it is provided in writing, there is no way the journalists will be able to tweet every word he says, no dig on the journalists at all, it is just impossible to do. I am really interested to know if he will touch on both possibilities for finding guilty verdicts (premeditated and forcible confinement). I am wondering why the two were never charged with indignity to a body. moo

 

[Miranda16]

LE does not assume anything. They would be checking to see if that gun was stolen. i.e.....if somebody who had registered it had reported it stolen. Was it not a relatively new gun? I don't know anything about guns....but I am sure LE have experts that would be able to narrow down where a gun like that would be purchased etc.

I disagree. LE needs to fit a plausible scenario to the known facts. That involves assumptions. In this case the perpetrator was dead so they could not question him. They apparently accepted it was suicide. In that case the only further threat to the public is the unknown gun dealer. We don't know how extensively they investigated this (e.g. By Tracing WM's communications). Perhaps it will come out in the trial.
All IMO

 

[Miranda16]

Who would you need to dismember to fit in an 18 (or whatever) foot high, wide-as-a-barrel rocket ship incinerator?

It wasn't the home-made incinerator that requires 'chopping', it was one model of commercial incinerator that MS researched. In the end they went with the eliminator, which was able to handle animals up to 500lbs if I recall correctly (hence no chopping required for humans) and much more suitable to DM's and MS's missions.

 

[redheart]

It wasn't the home-made incinerator that requires 'chopping', it was one model of commercial incinerator that MS researched. In the end they went with the eliminator, which was able to handle animals up to 500lbs if I recall correctly (hence no chopping required for humans) and much more suitable to DM's and MS's missions.

You are absolutely right. Thanks for clearing up that misinformation.

Smich was NOT talking about the incinerator SS built.


Adam Carter
May 24 2016 11:21 AM Now from June 6, 2012. Smich texts Millard: "I'm lookin at a mobile one right now. Some chopping wood be necessary. It's called thermal treatment. The heat generated by incineration can be used to generate electric power."

Adam Carter
May 24 2016 11:22 AM "You sir, are talking about the incineration," Fraser says.

Adam Carter
May 24 2016 11:23 AM "You're putting your two cents worth in on this homemade incineration plans," Fraser says. "I must have done some research and that's what came up in the research," Smich says.

Adam Carter
May 24 2016 11:24 AM "You don't have an interest in that incineration device because it burned garbage. You couldn't care less about it ... Mr. Smich, it's just another element of the plan," Fraser says.

Adam Carter
May 24 2016 11:24 AM Smich says "No sir."

Adam Carter
May 24 2016 11:25 AM Fraser asks what SMich meant about "chopping would be necessary." Smich says he doesn't recall. "Dismemberment?" Fraser asks. "No sir," Smich says.

 

[andreww]

.

I would not be surprised if there are a lot of intertwining pieces that will come together in the next 2 trials .... death of WM ... disappearance of LB .... incinerator(s) .... gun(s) ... things like that .... and the evidence has to be withheld until then .... (cannot be brought up at the TB trial , even thought there may be some overlap)

It's interesting that in the next trial, the crown should be able to use all the evidence from this trial in addition to whatever LB evidence they have. By WMs trial, nothing should be off limits. I get the feeling they set the order of trials purposely from strongest case to weakest case. I doubt for instance they would have been able to win the WM case first. But by the time it comes up Millard will be a two time convicted killer, making the prospect of a third conviction more likely.


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[Miranda16]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hb6kEtpLa8cHCVorBuy4yqfHymGvhfHeM6s8QMWGVW8/pubhtml

I was looking over timeline today and noticed that it had the quote from MS referrimg to chopping "wood" which could be quite different contextSmich texts Millard: "I'm lookin at a mobile one right now. Some chopping wood be necessary."

Of course, this could just be a typo? Thought I'd mention it.

To add that - I originally felt that"chopping" could just be referring to modifications to the unit and/or trailer, etc (in the context of 'chop shop' type thing. IMO only. Of course there is another potential gut wrenching context too, so I understand the reactions.

Lastly - I just looked up chop under urban dictionary and saw that it mentioned number 4. As one of the "definitions" .

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chop

chop
To sell marijuana. At least used in areas around Toronto, Canada but likely in many other places as well.

To make a chop means the same thing.
"I'm gonna start chopin' as soon as the summer's over, bring in some mad cash yo."

1:"Where's Faeyman at?
2:"Making a chop at that party we were just at, chill"
#weed #sell #drug #hussel #deal

most likely explanation IMO is misspelling of the word 'would'. If the trial has proved anything it's that MS's spelling is atrocious.
(And I blame mine on typing on glass :blushing: )

 

[Elisabeth]

In DM's mind he is innocent.

In DM

In DM's mind he is entitled to be found innocent.

 

[JuneBug67]

You are absolutely right. Thanks for clearing up that misinformation.

Smich was NOT talking about the incinerator SS built.


Adam Carter
May 24 2016 11:21 AM Now from June 6, 2012. Smich texts Millard: "I'm lookin at a mobile one right now. Some chopping wood be necessary. It's called thermal treatment. The heat generated by incineration can be used to generate electric power."

Adam Carter
May 24 2016 11:22 AM "You sir, are talking about the incineration," Fraser says.

Adam Carter
May 24 2016 11:23 AM "You're putting your two cents worth in on this homemade incineration plans," Fraser says. "I must have done some research and that's what came up in the research," Smich says.

Adam Carter
May 24 2016 11:24 AM "You don't have an interest in that incineration device because it burned garbage. You couldn't care less about it ... Mr. Smich, it's just another element of the plan," Fraser says.

Adam Carter
May 24 2016 11:24 AM Smich says "No sir."

Adam Carter
May 24 2016 11:25 AM Fraser asks what SMich meant about "chopping would be necessary." Smich says he doesn't recall. "Dismemberment?" Fraser asks. "No sir," Smich says.

I agree that it is one hundred percent clear that Smich is not talking about the incinerator that SS built. However that is exactly what the Crown says he's talking about. In your own quote, see:

Adam Carter
May 24 2016 11:22 AM "You sir, are talking about the incineration," Fraser says. [should have been incinerator rather than incineration]

Adam Carter
May 24 2016 11:23 AM "You're putting your two cents worth in on this homemade incineration plans," Fraser says. "I must have done some research and that's what came up in the research," Smich says.

Here is Molly Hayes

June 6, 2012. Texts btwn Millard and Smich about the incinerator. Smich texts about heat generation, and materials needed. #Bosma May 24, 2016
"You sir are talking about the incinerator. The homemade one right," Fraser says. Smich says yes he's not sure what he's looking at. #Bosma May 24, 2016
Fraser says Schlatman is the handy one. "Why would you take any interest in that device unless you have an interest in it?" #Bosma May 24, 2016
He suggests he wouldn't have had an interest in it if it was to be used to burn garbage. #Bosma May 24, 2016
"It's just another element of the plan," Fraser suggests. #Bosma May 24, 2016
Fraser asks what he meant in one text when he writes "some chopping wood (sic) be necessary." #Bosma May 24, 2016
Smich says he's not sure, says again it was meant for garbage. "Dismemberment?" Fraser asks. Smich says "no sir." #Bosma May 24, 2016

The crown is clearly implying Mark is talking about needing to dismember people for that giant rocket ship that Shane built. Mark is clearly talking about something else.

For those complaining about repetitive posts, what do you suggest when you make a point and have to addresses people who thank people for clearing up your completely correct misinformation?

 

[Inspector_North]

I agree that it is one hundred percent clear that Smich is not talking about the incinerator that SS built. However that is exactly what the Crown says he's talking about. In your own quote, see:


For those complaining about repetitive posts, what do you suggest when you make a point and have to addresses people who thank people for clearing up your completely correct misinformation?

I didn't see that way at all. Fraser was referring to the 'homemade incineration plans". The plan that didn't work, and MS's input on a replacement solution. Fraser was not suggesting that chopping would be required for the homemade version as it was already concluded as a failure.

Adam Carter
May 24 2016 11:23 AM "You're putting your two cents worth in on this homemade incineration plans," Fraser says. "I must have done some research and that's what came up in the research," Smich says.

This research was in June of 2012, and after the Homemade Rocket unit was deemed a failure, and the same month the Eliminator was ordered.

IMO, it may be the tweets that confuse the issue.

I could very well be wrong, but that is my take.

MOO

 

[Coldpizza]

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 1m1 minute ago
#Bosma court starting 9:30 this am for first of 3 closing arguments, starting with Millard today.

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 39m39 minutes ago
closing arguments start @ 10am, dellen Millards team is up first. Will last 3 days..

Conflicting start times

 

[RandomName479]

It will be interesting to hear the closing arguments. I can't imagine DM s lawyer being able to fill a whole day of my client is not guilty. But then again, they have been known to ask two questions differently for almost two hours. Lol. If MS gets less than 1sr degree, I would think it is mostly due to his great lawyer who coached him well over the past years. To clean up, get an education, and stick to your story. My hat goes off to the crown, for gathering the evidence needed, and doing a most difficult job of trying to get two 1st degrees without a murder weapon and no body. Does anyone know, will we hear the charge from judge to jury? I would love to use his instruction to the jury, and see if my mind about these two change because it.

BBM - did you miss the convoluted and drawn out MS cross? I can see the DM defense team taking their sweet time.....MOO

 

[andreww]

Fraser asks what he meant in one text when he writes "some chopping wood (sic) be necessary." #Bosma May 24, 2016
Smich says he's not sure, says again it was meant for garbage. "Dismemberment?" Fraser asks. Smich says "no sir." #Bosma May 24, 2016

These are the kinds of things that convince me that Smich was all in on the plan to dispose of people in an incinerator. What possible meaning could "chopping" have? Chopping garbage? Chopping pets?

 

[meterclicks]

Back at the courthouse today. After four months of trial, closing arguments start today.
by Adam Carter 9:08 AM

Each legal team is expected to take a day each for their closing arguments. Millard's lawyer Ravin Pillay will go today. Tomorrow it's Smich's lawyer, Thomas Dungey. Then Thursday, it will be the Crown's turn, with Tony Leitch.
by Adam Carter 9:26 AM

 

[JuneBug67]

I didn't see that way at all. Fraser was referring to the 'homemade incineration plans". The plan that didn't work, and MS's input on a replacement solution. Fraser was not suggesting that chopping would be required for the homemade version as it was already concluded as a failure.

Adam Carter
May 24 2016 11:23 AM "You're putting your two cents worth in on this homemade incineration plans," Fraser says. "I must have done some research and that's what came up in the research," Smich says.

This research was in June of 2012, and after the Homemade Rocket unit was deemed a failure, and the same month the Eliminator was ordered.

IMO, it may be the tweets that confuse the issue.

I could very well be wrong, but that is my take.

MOO

Wow. Did you read my quoted Molly Hayes tweets?

 

[Alethea Dice]

It was a picture of a necklace and earrings. MS said, "You like for your mom?". It was May 9th, 3 days before Mother's Day. I hadn't thought there was any doubt that MS was asking MM if she wanted him to steal it for MM to give to her mother, and MM admonished him. That was my own take on it. This small example goes to show how easily texts can be misinterpreted to become whatever we want them to, imho, just like the sausage pic showing a high-five for most people, but some people visualize a gun. moo

Except that it wasn't MS who sent the picture. MM sent the picture to MS as a gift suggestion for his mom. This was corrected pages and pages ago and more than once. I'm not sure why the incorrect information keeps being brought forward.

 

[Coldpizza]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
Told you we start at 10 today. Wrong! We start at 9:30. Fortunately, I always arrive early, so all good. Waiting for Justice Goodman

Trial thread is open for posting.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Trial-05-31-16-Day-56-Closing-Arguments-Begin

 

[Coldpizza]

The jury is now being called in. Underway in moments.
by Adam Carter 9:32 AM

Closing in 5 minutes

 

[Inspector_North]

Wow. Did you read my quoted Molly Hayes tweets?

I did, and that is why I said I could be wrong. Just questioning which tweets were correct.

Are we sure her tweets are accurate? That was my point.

Why the wow?

 

[Alethea Dice]

I agree. I think the jury comes back very quickly on this. The whole trial was a bloody waste of time. Not guilty? Give me a break! They should have pled guilty instead of putting the Bosma family through even more torture, not to mention costing/wasting taxpayers millions of dollars. They saw the evidence in disclosure. They should have known their goose was cooked.

If I was on the jury I would be asking why in God's name did they plead not guilty? Are you joking? I would be rightfully offended by the insult to my intelligence.

With all the evidence presented, I'm sure the jury is champing at the bit to put these sick and demented ****s in prison for the rest of their lives, where they rightfully belong.

This is a crime of historic proportions in Canada. An innocent husband, father, son, and all around great man was murdered and incinerated by 2 putrid ****s. And it saddens me deeply that some people treat it like a movie, or some kind of entertainment. Justice for Tim Bosma will come swiftly because their guilt is as clear as day. When you stop treating it like a form of entertainment, it will be crystal clear to you too.

I guess this could be a prime example of why the Crown would be in it to win it. Imagine the outcry from the more vocal public if they were to not succeed in such a high profile case.