Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #6

[SnooperDuper]

Wow! Where did the week go? Time sure flies when you're having fun. Hope everyone enjoyed the March break, especially the jurors and the Bosmas. I'm sure this week was a welcomed and much needed break for all of them. Although I wouldn't be surprised if many of the jurors did a lot of reflecting in their own minds, on the wealth of evidence the Crown has presented thus far in this case.

I just watched the video and it is very difficult to make out anything other than the two vehicles coming and then leaving, heading back from the direction they came from. And of course the odd vehicle which passed by on the other road. Perhaps the flashes of light were from a gun being fired and the two boom sounds correspond? Maybe there was a forensic expert who was able to determine/decipher what happened and will take the stand eventually. MOO.

I think we are done with expert witnesses at this point, unless there is some testimony about the search at the hangar. I think what the jury has seen to date is what they have to go by.

 

[Juballee]

I'm just asking for general opinions.

The attempted robbery theory would be awkward if both DM and MS stopped at the Yukon and tried to throw TB out of the truck and get MS out and into the Yukon.

One stop to put MS following in the Yukon and a second stop at Bobcat to murder and tarp?

I'm curious why some keep insisting that it was MS in the Yukon, do we have any kind of proof one way or another which one was driving the Yukon?

I personally believe it was DM driving the Yukon, and that is why MS put the roof lights on the Ram when he drove off, he didn't know enough about Rams to turn them off. DM already had a Ram and should have known how to not light up the cab top lights.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I'm not sure how anyone is seeing anything in that super-pixelated video except the obvious lights from the vehicles and the periodic flashing lights near the rear vehicle. Other than that, I can't make out a thing.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Upcoming witnesses: do you think we will meet everyone in the call logs?

Dubien
Wishbone
Spafford
Whidden
Meneses
Quint
Palan
Boshenek
Schlatman
Scott
Noudga

That's about half the 25 remaining witnesses: we can also expect MB and AM. Anyone else to add to the list?

 

[SnooperDuper]

I'm curious why some keep insisting that it was MS in the Yukon, do we have any kind of proof one way or another which one was driving the Yukon?

I personally believe it was DM driving the Yukon, and that is why MS put the roof lights on the Ram when he drove off, he didn't know enough about Rams to turn them off. DM already had a Ram and should have known how to not light up the cab top lights.

But DM put his fingerprint on the mirror when he readjusted it to drive the truck, and MS never did (and he would have to: he's much smaller than DM)

 

[Claroon]

Any theories on why they towed the incinerator to a very public Hangar (albeit late at night, but still it's an airport!, with surrounding businesses, security cameras, etc.) instead of doing their dirty deed at the "out in the boonies" farm? If they had placed the incinerator just outside the rear barn doors, who would have seen them? They would have been out of sight. And from what I understand, the incinerator doesn't blow smoke like a chimney does (and even still, it was late at night, so who would see it anyway?).

What were they avoiding at the farm? Did a previous nosy neighbour spook DM? Perhaps from a previous incineration (LB?).

I am convinced they are both guilty of murder 1. No doubts based on evidence. But a lot of their decisions leave me thinking, WTF? Perhaps it's just panic decision-making? But then you see so many signs of pre-meditation and planning.

I'd say maybe because (I read) you have to plug it in. Runs on propane but plug in the fans (I read). I don't know how there could be hydro at the barn. Maybe, I don't know. Just my thought. And we covered the airport security issue a few posts above. Airport closes down at 10, hangar far corner and they were at the back of it I think.

 

[Claroon]

Granted. However, wouldn't a gas-powered generator solve that problem (and I'd say most farms have one or more of these lying around)? The incinerator runs on propane, so the fans would require just a small amount of juice, easily provided by a generator. Towing the incinerator to the Hangar just to "plug it in"....wow. Stupid is as stupid does.

As someone else said, they got to work on the truck while there. Probably realized they needed 4 hours for the burn. Who wants to hang out in the dark that long? Maybe they have showers up there? They'd want to clean up I'd think.

 

[Claroon]

But that's saying even though there is no evidence of a third driver at all - and we have been through 3/4 of the Crown's evidence so far, including most of the expert witnesses - you believe something different than what the evidence has shown. Doesn't it make more sense to stick to the facts?

The evidence showed a Yukon-like vehicle pulling out of the neighbour's field and following it from that point. Do you really think MS ran down the road to do that? No. Not necessarily 3 drivers as it seems MS doesn't drive -- DM seems to be his and MM's taxi. But 3 participants, yes.

 

[Prairie_dawg]

Any theories on why they towed the incinerator to a very public Hangar (albeit late at night, but still it's an airport!, with surrounding businesses, security cameras, etc.) instead of doing their dirty deed at the "out in the boonies" farm? If they had placed the incinerator just outside the rear barn doors, who would have seen them? They would have been out of sight. And from what I understand, the incinerator doesn't blow smoke like a chimney does (and even still, it was late at night, so who would see it anyway?).
...

<rsbm>
For one thing they had no power at the farm at least that is the theory. They had a generator which would make alot of noise in a quiet farm community, as well the incinerator roars when the afterburner fires up (so we have heard from SS emails). I think they wanted to keep it close while they cleaned the truck. Their tools and source of water were at the airport so they made the decision to do all of it at the hanger. JMO

 

[ABro]

I think we are done with expert witnesses at this point, unless there is some testimony about the search at the hangar. I think what the jury has seen to date is what they have to go by.

We are certainly done with the video forensic expert. He spent two days on the stand explaining and interpreting the evidence. He was very clear about what conclusions he could draw and what he couldn't.

 

[SnooperDuper]

The evidence showed a Yukon-like vehicle pulling out of the neighbour's field and following it from that point. Do you really think MS ran down the road to do that? No. Not necessarily 3 drivers as it seems MS doesn't drive -- DM seems to be his and MM's taxi. But 3 participants, yes.

The truck could have pulled in, dropped MS off, both then left.

The Crown has presented no evidence of a third participant.

No third participant has shown up on video.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Upcoming witnesses: do you think we will meet everyone in the call logs?

Dubien
Wishbone
Spafford
Whidden
Meneses
Quint
Palan
Boshenek
Schlatman
Scott
Noudga

That's about half the 25 remaining witnesses: we can also expect MB and AM. Anyone else to add to the list?

If MB would be a witness I could imagine also MG (MS' mother).
Then "Hagerman" perhaps (another phone connection).
Maybe the main accountant?

 

[Kamille]

The evidence showed a Yukon-like vehicle pulling out of the neighbour's field and following it from that point. Do you really think MS ran down the road to do that? No. Not necessarily 3 drivers as it seems MS doesn't drive -- DM seems to be his and MM's taxi. But 3 participants, yes.

The evidence showed BOTH vehicles pulling out of the field. No need for them to pull into that field if they had someone driving the second vehicle. They would have done just as you've indicated, pulled out onto the road behind the truck and both would have continued on with TB oblivious to the fact that there was a vehicle tailing them. There has been no evidence, whatsoever, presented for a third person. My personal opinion is that there won't be, because there isn't one.

MOO

 

[Abitcountry]

But that's saying even though there is no evidence of a third driver at all - and we have been through 3/4 of the Crown's evidence so far, including most of the expert witnesses - you believe something different than what the evidence has shown. Doesn't it make more sense to stick to the facts?

I know it even seems a little out there to me too...there is just something about it....call it an intuitive thing...a hunch...a feeling that something is not ringing true about third driver thing.
It's a pickle in my craw--- it could be the way LE was so specific when they said that the girlfriend was eliminated as the possible third driver.
Respectfully, I have followed everyday since the trial began...was the 3rd driver expressly dealt with by any of the expert testimony or facts that have been established to this point...if so I've missed it.
All the evidence is not in just yet and there are people who believe the Crown's keeping some big things for the finale. When the 'fat lady' has sung her last note, and I find out there is absolutely no 3rd guy, I will have no problem admitting I was wrong ....it is not about my ego but it is about trusting my intuition.

 

[FredFlintstone]

What do you mean? As far as I know, which could be wrong, MWJ has not informed on anyone. Most likely the other way around. Someone had to link him as the gun source. I don't think he gave himself up. IMO

<modsnip>

and the funny thing is....
http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/tag/matthew-ward-jackson :winkaway:

 

[Juballee]

But DM put his fingerprint on the mirror when he readjusted it to drive the truck, and MS never did (and he would have to: he's much smaller than DM)

Then we should have seen some evidence of MS's fingerprints on the Yukon's mirror, since as you say, there was a size difference.


Except MS didn't leave prints anywhere, it's almost as if he was wearing gloves the whole time, as if he expected a crime was about to happen. I know SB and her tenant never saw his hands, he kept them hidden in his pockets, as well as keeping his face hidden from them.

Out of two people, if one acts suspicious and the other does not, why assume the non-suspicious one was the guilty party? Occam's razor again.

 

[ABro]

I have always thought that there was another driver and that it was likely a male.....I have difficulty imagining one person trying to control his captive at gunpoint and driving the truck at the same time.
I know DM is multi-talented, but on his own---TB could have grabbed for the weapon or the steering wheel...anything that would have thwarted the abduction. But with DM & MS it would have been more threatening and rendered it a more effective confinement.

How do you get that DM is alone in the truck? The Crown said just the opposite in its opening statement:

The Crown intends to prove that on this date in the late evening hours, Tim Bosma was killed in his truck, shot by the two accused at close range, while on a test drive with his truck; his body then incinerated hours later by the two accused.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Then we should have seen some evidence of MS's fingerprints on the Yukon's mirror, since as you say, there was a size difference.


Except MS didn't leave prints anywhere, it's almost as if he was wearing gloves the whole time, as if he expected a crime was about to happen. I know SB and her tenant never saw his hands, he kept them hidden in his pockets, as well as keeping his face hidden from them.

Out of two people, if one acts suspicious and the other does not, why assume the non-suspicious one was the guilty party? Occam's razor again.

But both acted suspicious. SB and WDB were both suspicious of the fact that the two walked up, and suspicious of DM as he drove off wildly. I don't think you can say that DM was acting in a non-suspicious manner. If DM was all above board, why was he giving out his name as "Evan"?

Since there is no non-suspicious person, you have to assume that there are two guilty parties.

 

[Alethea Dice]

I played the video in the dark and tilted my laptop. At 2:11-2:13 thought I saw shadowy figures. I snipped them and used photo tool to enhance them. Do you see what might be figures? Not that it really matters. Just for interest sake.

View attachment 90707

same in colour View attachment 90708

I see what you're talking about, but those lights are when the two vehicles turn around to leave. They can't be standing outside the vehicles when the lights turn on and they start to drive away. JMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

How do you get that DM is alone in the truck? The Crown said just the opposite in its opening statement:

There was a bit of debate earlier on whether TB was shot while both DM and MS were in the truck, or whether MS switched over to the Yukon and TB was shot later near the Bobcat dealer.

I guess the Crown intend to prove both were in the truck when the shot(s) was/were fired?

Given the debate over the GSR, it seems that the Crown is placing both in the truck at the time of TB's death.