Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #6

[Deleted member 102539]

Unfortunately for Ward-Jackson, despite the discharge from Justice Di Zio, he’s still in the new and newly notorious Toronto South super jail due to another set of charges he faces, allegedly selling guns to Dellen Millard.

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/tag/matthew-ward-jackson

Would it be possible DM and MS had both a weapon?

 

[Abitcountry]

But that's saying even though there is no evidence of a third driver at all - and we have been through 3/4 of the Crown's evidence so far, including most of the expert witnesses - you believe something different than what the evidence has shown. Doesn't it make more sense to stick to the facts?

I know it even seems a little out there to me too...there is just something about it....call it an intuitive thing...a hunch...a feeling that something is not ringing true about third driver thing.
It's a pickle in my craw--- it could be the way LE was so specific when they said that the girlfriend was eliminated as the possible third driver.
Respectfully, I have followed everyday since the trial began...was the 3rd driver expressly dealt with by any of the expert testimony or facts that have been established to this point...if so I've missed it.
All the evidence is not in just yet and there are people who believe the Crown's keeping some big things for the finale. When the 'fat lady' has sung her last note, and I find out there is absolutely no 3rd guy, I will have no problem admitting I was wrong ....it is not about my ego but it is about trusting my intuition.

 

[Alethea Dice]

The evidence showed a Yukon-like vehicle pulling out of the neighbour's field and following it from that point. Do you really think MS ran down the road to do that? No. Not necessarily 3 drivers as it seems MS doesn't drive -- DM seems to be his and MM's taxi. But 3 participants, yes.

Yes, 3 participants, not 3 drivers. But, I'm pretty sure that MS does drive. He may not own a vehicle and have been driven around by DM, but a previous DUI charge indicates that he does know how to drive.

 

[ABro]

it is not about my ego but it is about trusting my intuition.

Trusting your intuition when there's no evidence is getting into "tunnel vision" territory. That's what Kavanagh said when he told the press police were considering multiple scenarios way back spring of 2013.

 

[Claroon]

I see what you're talking about, but those lights are when the two vehicles turn around to leave. They can't be standing outside the vehicles when the lights turn on and they start to drive away. JMO

I know the mind can play tricks especially with those pixels. I do want to say that there are a few seconds before the cars actually leave and the time stamp I mentioned. One might have said, turn the lights on so I can see what the ** is all over me, or while I finish my smoke...

Perhaps a stretch, but we are sleuth hobbyists, after all.

 

[Abitcountry]

How do you get that DM is alone in the truck? The Crown said just the opposite in its opening statement:

I think something has been missed.....I do not think Millard was alone in the truck--in fact, quite the contrary, I think it would have been difficult for one man to drive while holding a gun on the intended victim.
I think DM and MS were together in TB's truck.
Where I may differ from the norm right now is on the question of another driver behind the wheel of the Yukon....that does not ring true for me.

 

[JuneBug67]

If they both got out of the vehicle at the Bobcat site they could have both shot DB, IMO.

But I'm really thinking about my theory of a dare or bet to prove something and maybe they both had to take a turn with the gun to fulfill it, IMO.

And yes, I've always wondered why they both went to TB's home. It makes no sense except for what I view as DM needing company all the time and he/they may have been more concerned about the vehicle being seen than MS? But that makes no sense because DM could have been dropped off by MS as you say without MS or the Yukon having been seen, IMO. It's all so senseless. How are we ever to figure out the whys? Our questions may never be adequately addressed, IMO.

All MOO.

Two people attending the home functions as an attention splitting device. Neither witness at the Bosma home could ID either man or any detailed distinguishing features. Smich acting shady, and still hiding himself, could even have been a deliberate manoeuvre to draw attention from DM. DM provided a sufficient normal vibe to lure Tim from safety in unusual circumstances. Whether they planned it that way or not, each of them had their role in getting out of there with Tim and the truck and leaving no strong witnesses.

 

[Gumshew]

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/tag/matthew-ward-jackson

Would it be possible DM and MS had both a weapon?

Didn't LE say one gun used for WM and another for TB? Or do I not remember correctly?

 

[SnooperDuper]

Didn't LE say one gun used for WM and another for TB? Or do I not remember correctly?

They haven't said anything about the guns. We don't even know the outcome of the gun trial where the three M's were charged with selling DM a gun.

 

[Variant]

Upcoming witnesses: do you think we will meet everyone in the call logs?

Dubien
Wishbone
Spafford
Whidden
Meneses
Quint
Palan
Boshenek
Schlatman
Scott
Noudga

That's about half the 25 remaining witnesses: we can also expect MB and AM. Anyone else to add to the list?

MWJ, to testify to the gun sale to DM at least ? I can think of reasons they may not want to call him.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Didn't LE say one gun used for WM and another for TB? Or do I not remember correctly?

This article only says "a gun", not "guns", and it was allegedly used for WM.

According to the Hamilton Spectator, police believe Mr. Ward-Jackson, Matthew Odlum and Matthew Jackson Wawrykiewicz, sold Dellen Millard the gun he allegedly used to kill his father.

http://news.nationalpost.com/toronto/dellen-millard-case-takes-a-strange-turn-aspiring-gangsta-rapper-accused-of-selling-him-alleged-murder-weapon

If WM was killed with a prohibited weapon, I would hope that LE removed the gun from the house at that time. JMO

 

[Gumshew]

This article only says "a gun", not "guns", and it was allegedly used for WM.
JMO

That's the alleged gun used by or on his father. What about TB?

 

[Juballee]

But both acted suspicious. SB and WDB were both suspicious of the fact that the two walked up, and suspicious of DM as he drove off wildly. I don't think you can say that DM was acting in a non-suspicious manner. If DM was all above board, why was he giving out his name as "Evan"?

Since there is no non-suspicious person, you have to assume that there are two guilty parties.

The testimony I recall had SB, her tenant and IT all saying that DM seemed quite normal in his behaviour and that MS was the one that raised their suspicions.

And that doesn't dismiss the fact that MS magically left no fingerprints behind, on either TB's or DM's mirrors. If he was the one who came prepared with gloves, and a disguise for his face, is it such a leap to think that he is also the one who came prepared with a gun?

ETA: MS may have also been hiding tattoos with his oversized clothes, I don't think we've had a chance yet to see if he has identifiable ink or not.

 

[Errrr]

Didn't LE say one gun used for WM and another for TB? Or do I not remember correctly?

I could be wrong but I don't think the police return weapons used in crime or death.

 

[SnooperDuper]

The testimony I recall had SB, her tenant and IT all saying that DM seemed quite normal in his behaviour and that MS was the one that raised their suspicions.

And that doesn't dismiss the fact that MS magically left no fingerprints behind, on either TB's or DM's mirrors. If he was the one who came prepared with gloves, and a disguise for his face, is it such a leap to think that he is also the one who came prepared with a gun?

ETA: MS may have also been hiding tattoos with his oversized clothes, I don't think we've had a chance yet to see if he has identifiable ink or not.

Why try to pin this all on MS? The two acted together as one. DM's not innocent.

 

[Satchie]

It's a pickle in my craw--- it could be the way LE was so specific when they said that the girlfriend was eliminated as the possible third driver.

I assume she has an alibi, including cellphone data.

Personally, I think that if they'd intended just to steal the truck, either MS or a 3rd person would have stayed in the Yukon to stealth follow the truck, probably at a distance so TB wouldn't notice. At a prearranged location, with the Yukon out of sight so TB couldn't get the plate number, he'd have been forced out of the truck.

LE have no incentive to prove that scenario. If that is some variation of how it went down, then it's up to the accused to mount that as a defense against 1st degree murder.

 

[Claroon]

I think something has been missed.....I do not think Millard was alone in the truck--in fact, quite the contrary, I think it would have been difficult for one man to drive while holding a gun on the intended victim.
I think DM and MS were together in TB's truck.
Where I may differ from the norm right now is on the question of another driver behind the wheel of the Yukon....that does not ring true for me.

I'm with you on this confusing issue. This report says, "The men had walked down the Bosmas’ long country driveway, saying their friend had dropped them off and gone to Tim Hortons." http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...th-of-tim-bosma-set-to-begin-in-hamilton.html

The neighbour says 2 cars pulled out of the field, and others have implied, SM then got into the Yukon, but I'd think TB would think it was weird to find out so early there was no friend at Tim Hortons and that their car was in the field.

 

[Juballee]

Why try to pin this all on MS? The two acted together as one. DM's not innocent.

I have heard it expressed many times here that it is possible that DM did it all alone while MS was in another vehicle, so I am curious why is it so bothersome to some that the opposite is also possible?

I think that there is a reason why the judge advised the jury that different verdicts were possible and for different defendants.

 

[Prairie_dawg]

I could be wrong but I don't think the police return weapons used in crime or death.

I had a friend whose father in law committed suicide with a firearm and the police attending did not seize the firearm until my friend and his wife told them to 'take it' as they did not want that thing in house any longer. That was some time ago and may differ with province and police forces.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I have heard it expressed many times here that it is possible that DM did it all alone while MS was in another vehicle, so I am curious why is it so bothersome to some that the opposite is also possible?

I think that there is a reason why the judge advised the jury that different verdicts were possible and for different defendants.

It's just that the evidence doesn't support MS acting alone. The evidence is in, 3/4 of the Crown's case has been presented...there just isn't more physical evidence to be had, and we've had a lot of it.

In the end DM held onto the truck and its keys like a prize - It's impossible for me to believe that he was disinterested in this crime.