Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #6

[Claroon]

According to billandrew's spreadsheet, yes he could get from Milton (where his phone pinged) to Roseville Road in time (arriving 6:15ish) get the fire going and head to the hangar.

Not sure if this was answered but how do we think the seats got back to the farm?

 

[Kamille]

<rsbm>



You may laugh, but I think that's the only reason one person agrees to pay another's phone bill.

I think that's why SL had such a problem with LE when he turned up with LB's phone bill. LE figured he was an ex trying to keep tabs on her and exert control, and they wouldn't get into it. IMO.

I'm only half joking really. I totally believe that MS couldn't be bothered with a phone because he likely could never afford one and that MM just got him a cheap burner phone so she could stay in touch with him. And I think that shows her immaturity and insecurity in that relationship. She was only 19 years old at the time. He was 25.

I sure hope she matured somewhat and makes better choices with regards to relationships now.

And I never considered that LE didn't bother taking SL seriously because he was an ex boyfriend, perhaps stalking his ex girlfriend trying to find her when she didn't want him to find her. Didn't her parents file a missing persons report?

MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

Veering back to the black band (elastic) on DM's finger. I wonder if it is to simulate a black wedding band:

from:
http://www.ehow.com/about_6748891_meaning-black-ring_.html

Black Wedding Bands
For some, the color black conjures negative images and ideas such as death and emptiness. However, black has also been a color of power, strength and certainty. Black titanium and tungsten wedding bands are a fast-growing trend. Both metals are known for their strength, hardness and endurance. Jewelry manufacturers market the new black wedding bands as traditional symbols of eternal commitment. The new metals and the color black emphasize the strength of that commitment.

Thinking DM might know that news of his black "ring" would reach CN in an attempt to influence her upcoming testimony.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I'm only half joking really. I totally believe that MS couldn't be bothered with a phone because he likely could never afford one and that MM just got him a cheap burner phone so she could stay in touch with him. And I think that shows her immaturity and insecurity in that relationship. She was only 19 years old at the time. He was 25.

I sure hope she matured somewhat and makes better choices with regards to relationships now.

And I never considered that LE didn't bother taking SL seriously because he was an ex boyfriend, perhaps stalking his ex girlfriend trying to find her when she didn't want him to find her. Didn't her parents file a missing persons report?

MOO

It seems the parents thought it was best for SL to go forward because LB had his iPad. It is tricky to be the parent of an adult that goes AWOL. The adult child has a right to privacy, etc. SL had a concrete reason to contact LB in the form of the iPad. Unfortunately because it was SL who came forward and he was the ex...LE have no idea of what the real story between a couple is, individuals have a right to privacy, LE doesn't want to assist SL if LB is trying to escape him, and so on. I think LE probably deals with so much domestic BS that they have become jaded to the reasons why one ex must get in contact with another, who has disappeared from them. LE has to be careful not to let abusive partners use LE as a tool. They really seemed to shut him down without listening to him, IMO, and in my cynical opinion, that's why.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Reminds me--remember the presser where some member of LE was extremely snippy about LB, and acted annoyed that they even had to give a press event? It was the one where they played up her background/activities. I can't remember if it was before or after the farm search, I just remember being angry with the nasty attitude of the person speaking to the press. It was like "FINE we're looking into her disappearance, now shut up."

 

[swedie]

Those are the same conclusions I came to when looking at the cell phone activity exhibit when it first came out. The only morning that it could be possible for the burning of the seats if the witness is correct is the morning of the 8th. And that would be DM alone on his way to the hangar. It's about 33 minutes from Milton to Ayr doing the speed limit. I think DM could easily do it in 20, especially at that time of the morning. So that would put him at the farm around 6:00am. It's only about 42 minutes from Milton to the hangar so if he didn't stop at the farm, he should have been there around 6:15am. His phone didn't start pinging near the hangar until 7:30am. It's 20 minutes between the farm and the hangar. So if DM got to the farm around 6am, he was there for at least an hour before he headed to the hangar.

I also posted about the mystery of why MS's phone was at the farm while DM was picking up the incinerator on the evening of the 7th. He likely also took the seats there in the back of the Yukon. I considered that perhaps DM had dropped MS off there to prepare something on their way up from Oakville before heading to the hangar himself to pick up the incinerator. Did they dig a hole somewhere on the farm for the cremains?

I also indicated that because MS must have left his phone to charge at home when he and DM went to pick up MM in the morning, MS likely never went back home that day to get it and used MM's phone that evening. There are a few unknown #'s texting him while there and my instinct tells me it was MM using someone else's phone. MM seemed to be relentless in her texting to MS. I even quipped that the only reason she got that burner phone for MS was so she could keep tabs on him all the time. LOL

MOO

The farmer said around 6:00am so IMO that could be perhaps anywhere from 6:00am to 6:30am. MOO.

 

[earlygirl]

I just realized I must have missed something. DM and MS left the hangar in the Yukon around 7 am on May 8 and arrived in Oakville at 7:57 to pick up MM. I thought they'd stayed at the hangar from the time they arrived around midnight, towing the trailer, until the time they left for Oakville at 7am. Did they leave the hangar during the night to tow the eliminator to the farm and then go back to the hangar before leaving for Oakville. Which vehicle did they use to tow the trailer? I thought I read before (maybe I'm confused) that CN helped DM move the eliminator from the barn to the trees a day or two later but just realized I don't know how it from the hangar to the barn. I think I saw a link before to a timeline but I can't find it. Thanks in advance!

[video=youtube;H9ZN1qA2lCI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9ZN1qA2lCI&amp;index=30&amp;list=PLhn5mdcBuBd4YST d84K1qV0avhzWu6Wz7[/video]

Tim Bosma Murder Trial: Video of Dellen Millard’s hangar the night Bosma is killed | EXHIBIT #99 (A)

@3:15 (on the video) the eliminator leaves the hangar

 

[Lorelei1]

Earlygirl, I had the wrong date in my post. I meant DM and MS took the Yukon to Oakville to pick up MM in the early morning of May 7, after spending the entire night in the hangar. I realize now that DM went back to the hangar on the evening of May 7 and moved the eliminator at 11:40 pm (3:15 in the video). When they picked up MM, they hadn't yet moved the eliminator back to the farm. Thanks to kamille, and to billandrew for the timeline spreadsheet.

 

[earlygirl]

I sit corrected .. Ooops. I went by the title of the video I missed the date change - duh - I even wondered about them moving it when it was still hot. I spend ages today watching evidence videos - looking for where they pulled over @the bobcat business. (I did not find it) I am overwhelmed with just how much video evidence they have been able to piece together, like a puzzle... piece by piece. Impressive really.

--->> goes to look @ the timeline

 

[Ontario Mom]

Veering back to the black band (elastic) on DM's finger. I wonder if it is to simulate a black wedding band:

from:
http://www.ehow.com/about_6748891_meaning-black-ring_.html



Thinking DM might know that news of his black "ring" would reach CN in an attempt to influence her upcoming testimony.

I think you may be on to something here.

I also think, its entirely possible she's been keeping up with MSM and SM as this trial progresses, and has actually heard about this stupid little band he wears. I'm hoping, after three years she's come to a place where she realizes how he used and manipulated her into doing his bidding, and is disgusted with it.

Not holding my breath, but definitely hoping.

 

[Orderly]

Does it concern anyone else how disengaged in the world around them, people in DM's circle seem to be? By that I mean: 1) with all the technology now available, not one person who saw that truck realized something wasn't right? TB's truck and picture was ALL OVER Facebook, Twitter and the News (and I include AJ in this because he CHOSE not to do the right thing at the moment he was told it was TB's truck). SS got upset at his FIL for calling crime stoppers and confirming it was TB's truck. Unreal.
2)no one questioned why the incinerator was necessary for DM to have (bookkeeper, SS, SH, others who saw it) even after an associate/friend goes missing around the same time the incinerator arrives.

Did he hold that much power over people? Were they blindly loyal based on the possibility that a guy with tons of money (supposedly) actually wanted to be friends with them, employ them or want to hang out? Or, are they all so unbelievably naive that it's almost impossible to fathom.

Hindsight is 20/20, what seems stupid now to us was probably the smartest thing they could come up with then. I don't know if it's fair to judge people for not noticing. I mean, personally, I didn't pay attention to this story until I found out CN got arrested, a year after it happened. I have made her acquaintance sporadically over the years so thats why I started following the news about this story. However, I've followed other trials out of general interest for a long time. The point I'm trying to make is one never expects the people they know whether well or not to be in that situation. Plus, what we're hearing is a narrative pieced together to prove guilt. So, yes it does seem clean cut and these guys all seem like idiots (I'm talking about people like SS, CN, MM, etc.) but they are also human. Therefore, I think it's important to try to at least understand why they didn't report it or why they took the course of action that they did before jumping to a conclusion. I'm in no way defending any of them, by the way.

IMO

 

[Claroon]

I'd previously deducted the eliminator hadn't been moved into the bushes until the 9th as the dirt-biking neighbour said he didn't see the "smoker" Wed. (8th). Now from the spreadsheet, I see the Yukon towed it 11:40 pm the 7th and Millard pinged Milton 56 min. later. According to Google that round trip of stopping at the barn would have taken 50 min. So if he's speeding, I guess could be done. Is unloading a trailer a 6 min job?

Do you believe he put it in the barn until the 9th then? Which is why the dirt bikers didn't see it? Possibly 4:38?

 

[Claroon]

I just realized I must have missed something. DM and MS left the hangar in the Yukon around 7 am on May 8 and arrived in Oakville at 7:57 to pick up MM. I thought they'd stayed at the hangar from the time they arrived around midnight, towing the trailer, until the time they left for Oakville at 7am. Did they leave the hangar during the night to tow the eliminator to the farm and then go back to the hangar before leaving for Oakville. Which vehicle did they use to tow the trailer? I thought I read before (maybe I'm confused) that CN helped DM move the eliminator from the barn to the trees a day or two later but just realized I don't know how it from the hangar to the barn. I think I saw a link before to a timeline but I can't find it. Thanks in advance!

They picked up MM May 7 at 8:02 am.

 

[Errrr]

99.9% sure there were insiders posting. IMO

That said, I know other people were doing off-the-books sleuthing of stuff like FB (I hate FB) so they were much more aware of people like SS, and putting the pieces together on the Baja race long before many of us.

*That* said, I remember there were a lot of posts about DM flying--flying TB somewhere, flying drugs in and landing across the street from the farm, etc--that were totally off track.

But yeah, it's uncanny how certain things have been used by the defense. Maybe they just lurk.

I was afraid they were waiting to see if WSs posted a plausible defence strategy or explanation for them to use. If they are still reading, here's one for them: A wrinkle in time resulted in that trazillionth DNA match to the suspect to do the deed and return safely to the future.

 

[Errrr]

I made a few observations in putting together the timeline of events:

Dairy farmer (Henhoeffer) saw smoke plume around 6am on May 7 or 8

Based on the hangar video evidence, it is highly unlikely that the smoke plume was seen on the 7th. The security videos place DM and MS at the hangar from 12:00am to 7:00am that morning, after which they went to Oakville to pick up MM by 8am, and DM was back in Etobicoke by 9am. There is no way they went to the farm and burned the seats around 6am that morning.

On the morning of the 8th, DM's phone pinged in Etobicoke around 3am, but then pinged in Milton at 5:42am and then at the hangar at 7:30am. It is possible that he stopped by the farm within this time to burn the trucks seats, etc. If true, it looks like he did this alone, or at least without the help of MS, since DM spent the rest of the day at the hangar while MS's and MM's phones pinged in Oakville throughout that day.

It is also possible that the burning event took place on the morning of the 9th, but there is really no evidence to suggest that. The cell activity was pretty quiet from the evening of May 8 through the morning of May 9. I am willing to bet that DM caught up on some much needed rest during that time.

Neighbour of farm saw lights at the property around 11:00-11:30pm on May 7 or 8

Based on the evidence, it is possible that the neighbour saw these lights as early as the 6th (the night Tim was murdered). The video evidence suggests DM and MS were picking up the trailer at the farm sometime between 10:30pm to 11:30pm on the 6th before heading to the hangar.

On the 7th, video evidence places DM (or rather, his Yukon) at the hangar from about 9pm to 11:40pm. At 11:40pm the Yukon is seen departing the hangar with the incinerator in tow. Curiously, the Smich/Meneses phone is pinging at the farm property around 11:30pm, suggesting that he was there while DM was at the hangar. How MS got there is unclear. Did DM drop him off there earlier in the evening? Or did he drive there on his own or with someone else (e.g. MM)? Regardless, it is possible that the neighbour saw MS using a flashlight around the farm around 11:30pm. DM would have likely showed up around midnight or later to drop off the incinerator, if he did in fact take it to the farm that night.

On the 8th there is no evidence to suggest DM or MS were at the farm during the evening. As I noted above, the cell activity was quiet that night. I think DM was likely resting up at home in Etobicoke that evening.

Maybe when they dropped the incinerator back at the farm they piled up everything they needed to burn but didn't want to light up the night sky and draw attention. Then DM could easily and quickly set it on fire the next morning on the way to the hangar? Those burned seats had to find their way back to the hangar to be placed inside the trailer at some point because someone said DM and CN went to MBs house to drop that off before going back to the farm to relocate the incinerator. Were there any more phone pings on the farm between the 8th and 10th?

 

[Kamille]

Maybe when they dropped the incinerator back at the farm they piled up everything they needed to burn but didn't want to light up the night sky and draw attention. Then DM could easily and quickly set it on fire the next morning on the way to the hangar? Those burned seats had to find their way back to the hangar to be placed inside the trailer at some point because someone said DM and CN went to MBs house to drop that off before going back to the farm to relocate the incinerator. Were there any more phone pings on the farm between the 8th and 10th?

BBM

Yes, they were both back there between the approx. time frame of 4:38pm - 5:51pm on May 9th.

 

[swedie]

These doors appear to be the only doors large enough to accommodate the incinerator. Anyone care to guess how DM managed to get his 6000 pound incinerator up and down from there, through those doors? Heavy duty ramps, hoist, Bobcat?

The perps were at the farmland for less than one hour on May 6th. My estimation is 45 to 50 minutes. At 10:26pm they were approximately 25 minutes away from the farm according to Plaxton's testimony. They arrive at the farmland approximately 10:50pm, and by 11:48 DM's cell phone pinged between the farmland and hangar (16 kms between).

What were they doing during that time? How much time did it required in hooking up the incinerator to TB's truck, transfer TB, perhaps change clothes, cleaning themselves up and/or TB's truck? Did they have the incinerator already sitting outside the barn, (IMO that shows premeditation they were planning on using it) when they arrived at the farm, or did they have to remove it from its hiding place, the upper level of the barn first and in the dark? How much work did that entail? Must have been quite a bit of work to get it in the barn in the first place. I can't see them removing it around midnight.

May 7th, at 11:40pm, DM left the hangar in his Yukon, incinerator in tow, taking it back to the farmland. He likely parked it behind the barn because it was dark, but then returned May 9th, during daylight hours, with CN to move it amongst the trees, perhaps because he was starting to feel the heat,LE might be onto him and thought they might go snooping around the barn.

Was it just coincidental TB's truck had the same towing hitch needed for the incinerator or was this something DM checked out while taking a quick walkaround of TB's truck prior to leaving on the drive? ALL MOO.

Susan Clairmont &#8207;@susanclairmont Mar 10
He saw The Eliminator in the barn. He points to centre of barn, upper level, to show where.

Susan Clairmont &#8207;@susanclairmont Mar 10
Seeing photo of back of barn with doors to second level. Eliminator right behind doors, Hussey says.

Adam Carter
Tim then pulled the truck out of the garage. They did a walkaround of it - a fairly brief one, she says. Not even a minute.

Plaxton's timline of vehicle movement according to video.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...after-tim-bosma-disappeared-1.3483358#Plaxton

Images from 2009 - upper level barn doors closed. 2014 - upper level barn doors open.

 

[Boudica]

Question - If someone was and has been posting on this site, but are a witness in TB's or LB's or WM's trial could their posts be entered as evidence in the trial??? Asking this as it does seem that there are some posters here who seem to have inside info. thanks

 

[Londoneye]

A couple things. SH's testimony for me cleared the comment that the biker made that always bothered me. Something about a hillbilly engine swap and a smoker in the woods. Never got the engine swap context but I'm assuming it was for the excavator. Also seeing there really wasn't much actual work or supervision happening at the hanger. Paying people to pull a stuck excavator (prob frozen too as it was winter) with a snowmobile seems ridiculous (I read the tweet as singular so one snowmobile, like seriously). Also very interested with the cremation testimony. Now I agree that the Crown is being smart to bring it up if the Defence is going that route for the reason of purchasing the eliminator, but If I remember DM's attorneys objected to a statement made (I think by a salesman or distributor can't recall) that the eliminator had been previously used. Now even if he's not qualified to make that statement in court why object to it if thats what you may bring up later on. The Crown can't bring up LB in any context so I doubt the defence would worry the jury would make that jump if they're go talk about the big business venture of cremation. Defence could say they burnt road kill or some BS to test it out. All MOO

 

[musicaljoke]

These doors appear to be the only doors large enough to accommodate the incinerator. Anyone care to guess how DM managed to get his 6000 pound incinerator up and down from there, through those doors? Heavy duty ramps, hoist, Bobcat?

The perps were at the farmland for less than one hour on May 6th. My estimation is 45 to 50 minutes. At 10:26pm they were approximately 25 minutes away from the farm according to Plaxton's testimony. They arrive at the farmland approximately 10:50pm, and by 11:48 DM's cell phone pinged between the farmland and hangar (16 kms between).

What were they doing during that time? How much time did it required in hooking up the incinerator to TB's truck, transfer TB, perhaps change clothes, cleaning themselves up and/or TB's truck? Did they have the incinerator already sitting outside the barn, (IMO that shows premeditation they were planning on using it) when they arrived at the farm, or did they have to remove it from its hiding place, the upper level of the barn first and in the dark? How much work did that entail? Must have been quite a bit of work to get it in the barn in the first place. I can't see them removing it around midnight.

May 7th, at 11:40pm, DM left the hangar in his Yukon, incinerator in tow, taking it back to the farmland. He likely parked it behind the barn because it was dark, but then returned May 9th, during daylight hours, with CN to move it amongst the trees, perhaps because he was starting to feel the heat,LE might be onto him and thought they might go snooping around the barn.

Was it just coincidental TB's truck had the same towing hitch needed for the incinerator or was this something DM checked out while taking a quick walkaround of TB's truck prior to leaving on the drive? ALL MOO.

Susan Clairmont &#8207;@susanclairmont Mar 10
He saw The Eliminator in the barn. He points to centre of barn, upper level, to show where.

Susan Clairmont &#8207;@susanclairmont Mar 10
Seeing photo of back of barn with doors to second level. Eliminator right behind doors, Hussey says.

Adam Carter
Tim then pulled the truck out of the garage. They did a walkaround of it - a fairly brief one, she says. Not even a minute.

Plaxton's timline of vehicle movement according to video.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...after-tim-bosma-disappeared-1.3483358#Plaxton

Images from 2009 - upper level barn doors closed. 2014 - upper level barn doors open.
View attachment 90471View attachment 90472

The pictures you have attached are on the front of the barn, and yes, it would be impossible to drive the machine into the barn that way.

There is a ramp at the back of the barn, which, based on a normal barn, leads to big barn doors that slide along a track, the type of big doors that a farmer would use to drive in a hay wagon. Within the big sliding barn door is a smaller man door. Nearly all barns of this period have that kind of set up. The big door would most likely be used by DM to get the vile machine into the upper part of the barn.

It would be consistent with the neighbour seeing lights on the silo, because the silo is right beside the ramp and door.

If you click on the second video at the link below, you can see it at 26 seconds.
http://globalnews.ca/news/828217/tim-bosma-toronto-police-once-again-searching-dellen-millards-farm/