Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #9

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mozzagirl said:
This is all my speculation but maybe someone will agree with me. If (big if) MS has changed his plea now to guilty and that is what today is about, maybe that gives him the ability to get up on the stand and testify against DM? If lots of damning stuff against DM is not able to be entered as evidence and his friends that have testified are lying to protect him, maybe this is a way for MS to make sure DM gets put away for life? I think MM will testify with enough info to put MS away, however CN will probably be hostile and not too helpful.

All MOO.
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Considering that the Jury was there ready to go leads me to believe that whatever is going on today was not forecasted last week. There's been several days and a lot of media coverage between MH's testimony and today, so perhaps there's been some public outrage against MH and AM is fearing he'll face the same? I would imagine that things are not easy when the Crown witnesses are sensationalized. I could see things getting out of control after the fact in cases like this. But then again, perhaps AM has changed his statement and the D is having a problem- especially if it implicates there side. After MH being called out on the stand, AM may have decided it was better to have the truth out before hand rather than be called a liar by either of the D's. JMHO
 
mozzagirl said:
This is all my speculation but maybe someone will agree with me. If (big if) MS has changed his plea now to guilty and that is what today is about, maybe that gives him the ability to get up on the stand and testify against DM? If lots of damning stuff against DM is not able to be entered as evidence and his friends that have testified are lying to protect him, maybe this is a way for MS to make sure DM gets put away for life? I think MM will testify with enough info to put MS away, however CN will probably be hostile and not too helpful.

All MOO.
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While I think MMs testimony will definitely implicate MS and his involvement, I also have a feeling it will be worse for DM. I think a picture will be painted of DM being the mastermind so to speak, and that MS just happened to be around the situation, thinking they were just stealing a truck. Perhaps she will even reveal that MS was in the Yukon at the time of the murder, not the Ram of TB. Just a feeling I have.
 
mozzagirl said:
This is all my speculation but maybe someone will agree with me. If (big if) MS has changed his plea now to guilty and that is what today is about, maybe that gives him the ability to get up on the stand and testify against DM? If lots of damning stuff against DM is not able to be entered as evidence and his friends that have testified are lying to protect him, maybe this is a way for MS to make sure DM gets put away for life? I think MM will testify with enough info to put MS away, however CN will probably be hostile and not too helpful.

All MOO.
Click to expand...

IMO, it would be in MS'S best interest not to plead guilty to 1st degree. Maybe a deal on a lesser charge to tell everything (if its even a possibility at this point). But So far, I myself, Im still up in the air on him. I've been waiting to see more physical evidence on him. I don't doubt that he was there that night by all means, just not convinced that he pulled the trigger or even knew what the plans were. JMO
 
billandrew said:
Brainstorming some possible reasons for having the jury unexpectedly dismissed this morning:

  • Violation of the publication ban.
  • Breach of no-contact orders.
  • Problem with a jury member.
  • New evidence was received.
  • The upcoming witness changed his statements.

Thoughts?
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Let's not start jumping to conclusions. Please remember these are the 3 main witnesses coming up, the defense is fighting tooth and nail to keep lots of stuff out of evidence. The judge needs time to hear both sides and make rulings, to avoid future appeals. There isn't a guilty plea, or deal being offered.
 
CJPRINCESS said:
IMO, it would be in MS'S best interest not to plead guilty to 1st degree. Maybe a deal on a lesser charge to tell everything (if its even a possibility at this point). But So far, I myself, Im still up in the air on him. I've been waiting to see more physical evidence on him. I don't doubt that he was there that night by all means, just not convinced that he pulled the trigger or even knew what the plans were. JMO
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I agree completely with this. I feel like he was there, even if not in the immediate vicinity at the time of the shooting, but definitely helped with the cleanup and coverup. I'm just not sure he's guilty of first degree murder as it's defined.
 
CJPRINCESS said:
IMO, it would be in MS'S best interest not to plead guilty to 1st degree. Maybe a deal on a lesser charge to tell everything (if its even a possibility at this point). But So far, I myself, Im still up in the air on him. I've been waiting to see more physical evidence on him. I don't doubt that he was there that night by all means, just not convinced that he pulled the trigger or even knew what the plans were. JMO
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He doesn't need to have pulled the trigger tobe found guilty of first degree.
 
NashBridges2 said:
He doesn't need to have pulled the trigger tobe found guilty of first degree.
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He may not have had to pull the trigger himself to be found guilty of first degree murder, but he did need to know ahead of time that it would be pulled, so to speak.
 
mozzagirl said:
AP's info always seems to be different in terms of witnesses left and who is up next. I have become sceptical of their info lately.
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According to Adam Carter, it resumes Tuesday afternoon. I'd be quicker to go based on his word than AP's
 
Webulls said:
Apparently AM will be on the stand today. I don't expect he will co-operate at all. I expect him to lie through is teeth to protect DM. It's sad and pathetic to think his group's "code" comes before the life of Tim Bosma. They are just a bunch of hooligans, nothing more.
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I think that anyone trying to protect DM is doing so in the hopes that MB is in a position to cut cheques. The rest are just protecting their own azz'.
 
CJPRINCESS said:
IMO, it would be in MS'S best interest not to plead guilty to 1st degree. Maybe a deal on a lesser charge to tell everything (if its even a possibility at this point). But So far, I myself, Im still up in the air on him. I've been waiting to see more physical evidence on him. I don't doubt that he was there that night by all means, just not convinced that he pulled the trigger or even knew what the plans were. JMO
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<bbm>

He can try, but it's not just up to the accused to change their plea; the Crown would have to agree. (Example, convicted serial killer Cody Legebokoff tried to plead Guilty to second degree murder during trial but the Crown would not agree.)

from:
http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/...bokoff-plea-to-second-degree-murder-1.1347596

Crown prosecution denied Cody Allan Legebokoff's attempt to plead guilty to four counts of second degree murder as the trial related to the deaths of three women and a teenage girl entered the final stretch on Monday.
Click to expand...
 
NashBridges2 said:
He doesn't need to have pulled the trigger to be found guilty of first degree.
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No, he doesn't. That's why the testimony forthcoming may be decisive. The witnesses we are going to hear from may be able to say what they knew of the "plan" for the truck heist before it happened. If they can swear to DM (or MS) telling them that the plan was to take a test drive with an unsuspecting owner, forcibly take him to an isolated spot and ditch him (possibly tied up or otherwise restrained to buy time), then that would be evidence of "kidnapping and forcible confinement" which makes any death involved in carrying it out (even if the death is accidental) a case of first-degree murder.

So this is vital for both Crown and defense. Disclosure means all relevant evidence has already been disclosed to the defense some time back, so there shouldn't be any surprises there. It could be that a new witness is being considered (one that hasn't been under the radar before?) or that a witness has come up with more information than previously known (or admitted to).

It would not make sense for either accused to change pleas. Neither would benefit by doing so. I wouldn't be surprised if MS's legal team did offer a guilty plea to second-degree murder some time ago but it was turned down. The evidence about his involvement is, so far, less clear-cut. The evidence about DM is damning and getting worse. The judge has no options re sentencing no matter what either accused does, the sentence will be the same.
 
Question for those with more legal knowledge than myself, as I have zero clue how this would work,but if they jury found MS not guilty of first degree, can the crown pursue a lesser charge of second degree at that point? Or can the jury assign that charge in place of first degree? Thanks.
 
RandomName479 said:
AC is saying Tuesday afternoon....."More legal arguments are set to continue on Tuesday. Testimony is scheduled to resume on Tuesday afternoon."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilt...nday-1.3529736

AP is saying Wednesday morning.....

SC is saying Tuesday morning......

Susan Clairmont &#8207;@susanclairmont 3h3 hours ago
Jury is to return at 10 am tomorrow. #Bosma
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I would assume the jury would come for 10am so they can be ready to go as soon as legal arguments are finished
 
RandomName479 said:
AC is saying Tuesday afternoon....."More legal arguments are set to continue on Tuesday. Testimony is scheduled to resume on Tuesday afternoon."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilt...nday-1.3529736

AP is saying Wednesday morning.....https://soundcloud.com/am900chml/jur...im-bosma-trial

SC is saying Tuesday morning......

Susan Clairmont &#8207;@susanclairmont 3h3 hours ago
Jury is to return at 10 am tomorrow. #Bosma
Click to expand...

SC would have said that when it was originally announced this morning the witness wouldn't be testifying today. All the reporters said Tuesday morning at first.

AC just said recently that it is the afternoon tomorrow so I guess the judge has delayed it a little more.
 
leafs_fan93 said:
He may not have had to pull the trigger himself to be found guilty of first degree murder, but he did need to know ahead of time that it would be pulled, so to speak.
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This is wrong. If he willingly took place in the theft, he's 100% at fault for everything that occurred during the theft.
 
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